Please help, I don't know where to turn

[Echocave]

i posted around 2 months ago when my dd had just been born. I was having major bf problems caused by various factors such as very low birth weight and a weak, jaundiced baby, loss of weight and immediately being told to top up with formula and - quite frankly - what ive realised over time is a lazy baby used to having milk poured in rather than having to do any work.

I'm posting again because I feel like I'm at the end of my tether. I hate to say this but after another rubbish feed dd has to now be topped up with expressed milk and probably formula. And I feel really furious with her. I've just burst into tears (away from her) of anger and frustration.

Dh has been supportive but we've started having really nasty rows as I am frequently hysterical about how much I want to breast feed dd and how I'm determined to make it work. But actually I don't think it can work

now. Her feeding is better but not good enough to be the sole food source (ive tried the odd feed of just bf and shes just not taking enough/there isnt enough milk to satusfy her). My milk supply is therefore better but not good enough and I spend so long expressing
or worrying about when I'll get time to express that I'm constantly stressed.
Feeds also take forever as I go through the rigmarole of breast feed, bottle of expressed milk then maybe some formula. This is agony in itself.
I feel so angry and disappointed and so annoyed with dd too. After all this work, we end up here.
Sorry this is an awful, long rant.

Oh echocave I am so sorry this is so difficult. I haven't got much to offer practically on making this work so will leave that to others but I struggled til about this stage with feeding dd1. So I know how hard it is to bf then try to express and try to ff.
In the end I moved to ff and found things much easier (this was right decision for me- am not saying it is for all). I did feel more angry (at lack of support and struggle ESP with a problem with my breast/supply that needed surgery to sort) but I did manage ro move on.
Neither you or dd are a failure for ending up here .

Have you spoken to anyone (bf counsellor etc) bout the issues and how you feel?

And moving to ff made it easier to cope practically - I dealt with feelings re feeding by talking to a therapist

I'm sorry to hear your struggles - it's such a worry with slow weight gain. I had this with my first who wouldn't bf for the first week. In the end I successfully bf him for a year so there is hope.

I didn't use a bottle though, which I know can cause issues. Instead DH cup fed him each time while I pumped. A lot of work but with a cup the baby is much more active and has to lap up the milk.

I have heard of a device which is basically a tiny tube that you can stick in her mouth with the boob and add the ebm or formula that way when you have emptied so that she continues to stimulate you to increase supply. I don't know what this is called I'm afraid but it might help. Can you ask a BC about this? Or try la leche league or somewhere?

Good luck.

I juSt found this on YouTube:

I am on iPhone, don't know I this works. If not search for breastfeeding with supplemental tube.

I really hope this helps.

Oh no, I really feel for you. She is probably just confused, sometimes it flows, sometimes she has to work for it so she thinks "it is broken and then gets frustrated. Can you try a few days of just breastfeeding? My DD3 feeds all the time- just how it is. Try and keep calm. I think eliminating the confusion will do her a favor even if it means feeding every 2 hours for you. How often does she feed?

Oh and if your in south london by any chance I know a FAB BF counsellor

Ah OP, I really feel for you. I'm by no means an expert as I'm only just over 4 weeks in to this bf malarkey, but I've had my fair share of probs and really relate to what you were saying about the stress of it all and how it makes you feel - I had a day when I looked at dd crying after another battle to get her feeding properly and felt really angry with her too, that really upset me.

Anyway, Ive been mix feeding since day 2/3 as I had terrible engorgement & really struggled to release my milk in any way. I'm now bf during the day as things finally started flowing and she feeds normally on the left and with a nip shield on the right, then Dh gives her formula overnight. It's basically everything you get told not to do, but it just seemed to naturally pan out to be the best approach for us. The hvs and mws didn't approve and kept getting me to try constantly to latch her on the right without the shield and to stop the ff at night, but now that she's gaining weight nicely I think to hell with everyone's advice. I feel so much happier since shes been gaining weight and I felt more like I could assert myself and decide what's best. So, I know everyone is different and there's a chance if you ff it might affect supply or confuse her, but it hasn't in my case. It just gave me a break from the relentless struggles and expressing etc and then this allowed me the time and patience to keep trying to improve the bf-ing when I felt ready.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this is any help but it sounds like you're doing great and have had a tough time if it, poor thing. I hope you find an approach that works for you x

Echocave - If you still really want to BF then with the right help I'm sure you can.

You say your baby is lazy and I take it you are giving topups with a bottle. The answer hear could be to cut out the bottle. This doesn't mean stopping topups as she' will be relient on them if she isn't getting enough milk form the breast but feeding her in another way. What Jnice was trying to explain is called a syplimental nursing system (SNS) and are fairly easy to get hold of.

You will also need some real life help from a breastfeeding counciler. Try one of the helplines.

National Breastfeeding Helpline
0300 100 0212

The Breastfeeding Network Supporterline
0300 100 0210

NCT Breastfeeding Helpline
0300 330 0771

La Leche League Helpline
0845 120 2918

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers
08444 122 949

And you may have a local dropin group you can go to as well, they are often basied in your local childrens centre.

What ever you do it is worth specking to a breastfeeding counciler, even if you decided to stop they are trained to go through everything with you.

Good luck.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I probably do need to talk to someone because it's really got on top of me and I'm not exaggerating when I say I'm an emotional wreck.

We had so much help at the beginning from lactation counsellors ec and I hardly have the energy to go over it again with anyone. This does sound very me me me doesn't it? No wonder my husband thinks it's more about me than the baby (he's never exactly said this but hints that he thinks I should just ff and get on with it).

I would talk to someone - either through your Gp or hv or bac.
I sense from your response (and hope I am not translating my own experience) where the feeding comes to represent a more general issue/struggle with motherhood than actually finding an answer to what works to feed your dd. part of this is because Even If you did talk again to an expert (and sounds like you have exhausted this route and are also at a point where the tank is empty so to speak on trying new methods as you are so drained emotionally) the thing you find overwhelming are your feelings about yourself/dd as much as feeding problem.

so whilst poorly phrased maybe your dh is right about it being me me me and I think you are right to need to talk to someone.

Also I hate to say this but do bf counsellers have proper emotional counselling/ therapy training? I dont know answer but I would avoid as i think failure to bf can open up Feelings and issues of a wider nature that are more appropriately dealt with by someone trained in emotional counselling or therapy.

Poor you. I've been in a similar position (and state!) several times myself.

Please get back in contact with one of the helplines or a local bf expert. I know how draining it is going over the same ground again and again but if you really do want this to work then that might be what you have to do and be worth it.

Many of the problems might be to do with the way your dd feeds etc but don't 'blame' her - it's so destructive. I know how easy it is to do this as I've only successfully bf one of my four and I now am fairly convinced that the tongue tie which dc4 had snipped is present but undiagnosed in the other three too. So technically it was their 'fault' but it doesn't stop me feeling guilty!

Your dh may well be trying to get you to ff, which may be against what you want but do remember that he is standing on the sidelines of a situation he has no control over and probably little understanding of. All he can see is that your baby is not thriving on BM and that his wife is struggling. Often in this situation men try to help but seem to end up doing the worst things in our eyes.

I hope you get access to some decent help soon and can begin to enjoy being a mother rather than resenting it, if that's how you're feeling. Big hugs.

don't worry about sounding me me me, it's ok to be emotional!! I had 2 emotional break downs when dd was 5 wks (was using me for comfort) and again at 8wks (think the hormones ran out here and I was knackard)! It's hard work both emotionally and physically on a woman to breastfed but it is hard work for the babies too so try not to feel annoyed with Dd as she really doesn't understand about bf and just wants milk the quickest way she can. If had to choose between drinking from a cup or sucking something I'm sure we'd prefer the first. lots of sources say cosleeping builds supply, is this an option for you? have you tried the position where the baby straddles your leg? All the Bfc and midwife loved this position and tbh so did I! It was much more comfy for both of us. hope you feel better soon xxx

I was exactly where you are a few months ago. It was a dreadful time and I feel for you. DH and I were rowing, I was in tears all the time. We did mixed feeding and then like Gogondas I moved to FF in the end - it was the right thing to do for us at the time. Huge relief that DS was getting a good feed made for a much happier household all round. I had to work through a lot of guilt about not BF and anger about the lack of support I received - and I spoke to literally everyone.

There is a lot of good advice here but maybe what you need is just one person to talk to rather than many sources of sometimes contradictory information that will take you a long time to sift through. I would recommend a visit to your GP.

Whatever you decide to do next, it has to be something that is going to result in you being a happy mum and your little one being properly fed. You sound like a lovely caring mummy btw and very well done for sticking with BF for this long.

I know its not the done thing but...

Bf councsellers do have traning in coucilling techeices hence the name. They are there to help you even if that goal if for you to stop feeding, it's not all about getting a baby to stay being BF. I think you will find that they probably spend half there time just lissionting to women crying that's what they are there for.

Even as a helper we had traning in active listioning skills and how to help women with the emotional side of things, although at this level it was very basic.

Thanks again all. I am nervous about going to my GP as I think they might want to put me on Prozac and make me formula feed. Who would be the best people to contact for just a chat?
Dd is growing well btw so that's partly why I've been worried about changing anything about the way we're feeding.
I'm not sure it's Motherhood per se I can't cope with, it's just that at 9 weeks, feeding is such a massive part of the day that it overwhelms me.

And I dont really resent dd at all. Of course I adore her but I'm also putting unrealistic expectations on her I'm sure. Especially as she's getting older and more able to refuse, play about chuckling etc. I take this as a slap in the face and step further away from breast feeding instead of being pleased she's so alert and frankly rather cute. If only I could calm down about it...

echo i really really feel for you and I've been where you are twice. ds2 was breast fed till 10 weeks but with very poor weigh gain. i switched to ff and we still had issues feeding, so i was feeling terrible for giving up. i think you do need to chat all this through with someone other than dh. i did get really resentful towards ds2 for not feeding, which is nuts as he's just a baby, but i was emotionally shattered. i hope what ever you do you start to feel less stressed about feeding, it's not a nice place to be is it. x

If you just want a chat with someone then one of the helplines is a good place to start they will go over everything with you. And if in the end that brings you to a decision to stop BF or they manage to give you extra help so you can carry on.

They should sign post you onto your GP if that is the road you need to go down. And I would hope that your GP would use something like prozac as a last resort. If really need there are anti-depresents that are compatable with BF.

Sorry - I was obviously projecting my own feelings onto you!

Your GP can't make you take prozac nor can they make you ff. I know it feels like sometimes they can but really they can't. Is there someone you trust who would be able to come with you?

Well I do really trust dh who's done so much to help me really. Button, you're not projecting at all, I do know what you're saying believe me!

Oh well she's gained 8 oz this week so despite still being below average size at least her weight gain is consistent. Thank you all again for your advice and sympathy.

8oz is fantastic Echo! You really do need to speak to a professional about what is going on in detail and to give you a boost in confidence and make you believe in your own abilities to feed your child. BFC spend lots of time counselling and are trained to do it so will be able to talk through all your options with you and let you come to your own conclusion about what you want to do.

8oz a week is a fantastic weight gain Echocave.

If you'd like to work out a plan to reduce the tops ups, then a breastfeeding counsellor on one of the helplines would be able to help you with this.

Btw- in your OP, you talked about a 'rubbish feed'- can you describe what that means?

CrikeyBadger, by rubbish feed I mean (and I accept that my bf expectations of dd are too high especially as she's had bottles almost from day 1) that dd will spend time at the breast fussing, pulling away, falling asleep. Usually she makes a bit of an effort for about 10 mins then it becomes a struggle. On a good feed she'll feed for 20 mins solidly and thereafter maybe 10 or 15 mins more intermittently. Sometimes I assume it's lack of milk but then I express and get a reasonable amount so I then wonder if it's her mood.

Thanks for the encouragement re her weight gain.

Ah ok I see what you mean. Are you swapping sides when she fusses (you can do this multiple times)?