Infant formula - they know it's illegal to discount it...

[hunkermunker]

..but they do anyway.

Twice in the last week, once in Moss and once in Boots, I've seen cut-price infant formula.

Both times I took it to a member of staff and told them very politely it was illegal to do this.

Both times they said (in hushed tones) things along the lines of "Ah, yes, I think we knew that" or "She's right, actually".

So why do they do it?

Would be great to meet up. Just let me know when you're heading our way. I'm on more or less the same time every night when the little monsters are tucked up in bed SAHM as the visa does not permit work. However, we've put our petition in for a green card as the plan is to become true Americans. Three months as we're smitten. Thanks for the chat. Take care

meant and we're smitten.

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Not that it will make you feel any better Hunker, but I can assure you that formula is not cheap - even the "discounted" stuff.

I have never seen cheapness as part of the issue - you can't get much cheaper than breastmilk, its blimmin free! (You tight arse, that's the only reason you breastfeed really isn't it )

Anyroadup, WILL you please go and give birth now?

I'm really surprised - only ever seen special offers on post-6 months milk.

It's not about converting someone from breastfeeding to bottlefeeding, it's about effectively hiding the true cost of formulafeeding. It's a international code and although people say "Oh it's not applicable here, I'm far too bright to realise that it's discounted and won't always be cheap blah de blah de blah" it's not just about you, it's about people who don't realise that - particularly in, say, 3rd world countries where samples of formula are/were handed out free to mothers in hospital.

It doesn't matter if you agree with it, it is the law and companies have to abide by it.

I think it's about time for an explanation of why the law is this way....clearly people have got the oddest ideas about it.

It comes originally from the WHO code of the marketing of breastmilk substitutes, which aims to protect mothers and babies from the worst marketing excesses of the formula industry,all of which we have seen here in the UK, though not always recently. It includes reps pretending to be nurses and advising women to use formula; incentives to health workers to persuade mothers to use formula; free samples of formula to mothers...and yes, discounting.

Because the decision to use formula is not very easily reversed, mothers need to know the likely impact on their family budget if they use formula. In families where money is very tight, a jump in the amount of money needed to keep the baby on sufficient formula (because a special offer ends) might mean the mother has to save money by diluting the formula or by giving ordinary cows milk before the baby is ready for it.

This is a live issue in developing countries, where poverty (real poverty) is much more common.

It is not so much of a live issue here - 50p off a can of formula which is then restored the next week when the offer ends is probably not going to make a difference to families in the UK. However, the principle remains that mothers need to know accurately what it will cost to formula feed a baby. In addition, it is not good for a baby's sole source of nutrition to be affected by commercial considerations or ones affected by marketing - the cheapest formula that week may not be the right health choice for a baby.

Personally, I would be in favour of cheap, non-branded but quality-controlled formula, which was not advertised and which had no incentives for anyone. I don't want formula manufacturers operating helplines (bar the ones they should operate to answer questions on their product); I don't want them offering prizes to midwives and gifts to health visitors and treating them to lunch, or going into parentcraft classes to teach massage and all the rest of the things they do to promote themselves.

Consistently cheap, high quality formula, readily available and not advertised or marketed - that protects breastfeeding best, and it also protects the health of formula fed babies, too.

Sorry hunker havn't had time to read the whole thread - are you a member of Milk Action ?

If not (and I am not advertising, just a suggestion) perhaps you could join ? I am a member and that's how I vent my anger at formula milk companies and the retailers who flog it.

Milk Action have a list of companies and retailers who REGULARLY break the law, including the 2 you have mentioned. In fact the breaches that go on globally are so much worse than what we see here in the UK.

At the moment I am pissed off that here in the UK, the DoH has still not managed to get its a* into gear into banning baby food companies from labelling their food "from 4 months" which I think is equally detrimental to breastfeeding and can have very serious consequences on a baby's health.

I'm a member too nanneh.
A glance through their website would make the scales fall from the eyes of those who think discounting/advertising formula is really no big deal.

That is exactly what all these companies want you to think.

For QoQ re IBFAN

There is a triage based system for professionals to decide when formula is needed in an emergency situation. It goes something along the lines of when a baby is orphaned or the mother had already given up breastfeeding there is no option to re-establish breastfeeding or find a suitable wetnurse (not an option in areas with HIV) then generically labelled formula with should be given ensuring that there is clean water and sterilisation facilities.

Not the full rules but too late to look them up.

moondog - hello fellow BMA member !

I have a sticker on my car that says "Give Nescafe the Boot - Stop Baby Bottle Deaths"......it usually gets a glance or too !

In fact when I first joined I was horrified that Nestle have major share-holdings in so many other companies, including my favorite eye-liner and mascara company

If anyone is interested to join and support the campaign, the wesite is: babymilkaction.org

I can't breast feed due to a congenital disorder. Our income is not low enough for us to get milk tokens. Althoug I know it is illegal to discount formula I would buy it if I saw it at a reduced rate because that would mean that I would have a little bit extra to spend on something else for the children.

Every child is different and it is not allways possible to hold of weaning till 6 months.

Good point mummyhill.

mummyhill, I think there would be a good case for women in your situation to get free formula, in fact, or, in an ideal world, to make it possible for you to get free banked human milk. My objection is that infant nutrition is commercialised, and profit, not health, is at the centre of the transaction. Your baby has as much right as any other baby to the best he can get - it may be that the cheapest formula is not the best for him.

To be honest, I would be happy for free human banked milk to be available to everyone who thought they needed it. This would be a bit like blood donations - given freely and taken freely, according to need.

If breastfeeding was well-supported and an automatic choice for women, with the maternity leave and social acceptance the Scandinavian countries (where bf is the total norm) offer, there would be very few mothers who would need to take up this offer. I don't think they should have to prove, medically, they need it - sometimes, psychological disorders can prevent it, and it should be up to the mother to decide her need.

I don't know of any congenital disorders that prevent breastfeeding (not saying I don't believe you, mummyhill - I just haven't heard of any!) but there will always be some mothers whose physical or psychological circumstances mean breastfeeding isn't an option.

mummyhill - personally I totally understand your position - the most important thing is that a baby should be fed so that he/she can survive, it doesn't matter to me whether that is done by breastmilk or formula - the baby has to survive.

In situations like yours where the mother actually cannot breastfeed, she should be able to buy formula at a reasonable price.

However, it is absolutely necessary for orgs. like BMA to exist beacuse without international controls on formula marketing, there would be a further increase in baby deaths, especially in the developing world.

It has been estimated that 1.5 million babies die annually due to the fact that they were not breastfed. Often it is simply because the formula companies have gone into a developing country and given free formula milk to mother who may not be well-informed about the benefits of breastmilk in preventing her baby's illness or even death.

Only recently, I think last November, I read that Nestle had had to withdraw some of its formula from several European countries because it had been contaminated.

Go Hunker, go Hunker!

Apologies if it has already been said (I haven't read all replies, shouldn't be here, should be working) but yes it's wasteful to throw formula in the bin but IMO much less wasteful than putting a spanner in the works with someone's breastfeeding or stopping them even starting.

Mummyhill, just read your post, if you are in the UK you can buy formula slightly cheaper at the Baby Clinic.

deja vu

To back up mummyhill - DD1 has a genetic disorder where dairy products (and particularly breast milk) are poisonous to her, giving her irreversable brain damage. Pressure to bf her from my "politically correct" midwives and hvs - even though it was clearly making her ill - nearly killed her. Eventually we got past these people to get proper medical help; her soya formula cost NINE POUNDS a tin and in the end we got it on prescription so now it's the NHS who are paying the formula manufacturers this ridiculous sum because it's not legal to pay less. Something must be wrong there, surely?

If bf support is available & society supported bf then formula wouldn't be needed alot of the time as bf probs could be sorted.
If you need to use formula then this should be supported as well. Help all round would be useful.

redhed - I have to agree with tiktok that I have never heard of a genetic disorder that requires formula feeding.

I am not saying it doesn't exist, just that I have not heard of one. In most cases where a baby is sick, bf is the best form of milk. In fact formula milk is made up of cow's milk among other things and is a therfore a dairy product which I would have thought would create a greater problem for a sick baby ?

Out of interest though, who was it that told you you should not bf your baby due to the possibility that you may be damaging your baby ? Was it a health professional ?

God, not this old chestnut?

God,not another sneery post from someone with f** all useful to say!

There is a very, very rare genetic disorder which means the baby cannot tolerate any product with lactose in it (I thought mummyhill was meaning she had the congenital disorder, not the baby).

redhed - the formula is expensive not because it is illegal for a consumer or the NHS pay less, but because it is speciality formula and dearer to make. Of course it is only right you should get on prescription as for you it is a medical necessity.

I don't think it's political correctness that caused your baby's problems to be overlooked, just poor care. Plain and simple.

moondog - who are you referring to ?