Health visitor rang today...

[TimeWasting]

She was really surprised we were still exclusively breastfeeding at 7 weeks.
Pleased sounding, but clearly shocked.

I'm beginning to think she didn't worry about DD weight gain as this would clearly pick up when I put her on the bottle.
Maybe she'll start harassing me now.

Weirdly she remembered exactly how long DH had been working away when I saw her couple weeks ago, but has forgotten that DS was bf and never had a bottle.
People are funny.

Happily they are training another bf counsellor for our area who seems much better.

My GP assumes I'm still bf. The HV always seems surprised

Out of my NCT group of eight, seven are still bf at 9 months, and the only person who isn't is one of the few people who are genuinely unable to breastfeed (she had had breast surgery and despite trying very hard and getting lots of help, she just couldn't make milk).

I suspect that there is a certain amount of variation between different areas. In my area I would say that bf is pretty common judging by the number of women I see breastfeeding in local cafes, at the HV clinic etc. However, it is fairly unusual to see anyone feeding a baby older than about 6 months- I have only seen toddlers being fed on a couple of occasions.

BTW I second what others have said about pain not being inevitable for the first few weeks of bf- it's a pity if the fear of this puts people off. Though I certainly found the first few weeks of bf quite challenging (not least because DD sometimes fed for 12 hours out of 24- no-one warns you about that!!) it was never painful.

My DD is 7mo. I took her to the GP last week after a couple of days with a temp. He asked about her feeds and was also shocked at bf and the fact she'd not once had formula. He encouraged me to go on as long as I can, Which I found nicely refreshing as Children's Centre staff always trying to give me advice on switching to FF and are when we go for weighings.

Must be unusual in my area because the practice nurse was when I told her during my smear last week that I've not had a period since July 2010.

Me: I BF.
PN: Still?
Me: yep
PN: has she got teeth?
Me: nope, not yet
PN: ah, you'll stop then.
Me: so, are we going to do this?
PN: I bet you're looking forward to stopping
Me: sooooo, the weather's starting turn

Tiktok ... the point being made here, quite rightly I think, is that there is no preparation at antenatal classes that bf can be painful or what you can do if it is. Yes for a great many women (not all, but an awful lot) this is their experience and they just don't understand why.

When my first few breastfeeds were total agony, I thought (and was made to feel by the midwife on the postnatal ward) that there must be something wrong with me and I would have to stop.

It took 5 weeks of me battling on through agonising feeds, many trips to the baby cafe, chats with bf counsellors, many visits from midwives and hv's, who ALL made me feel that somehow my experience was exceptional and unusual and didn't know how to help me, before a bf midwife consultant came to see me and showed me how to position my baby a bit better. Only then did things improve.

Until then I thought I was a freak of nature, because nobody told me it might hurt and what I should do about it if it did.

I agree with bushymcbush. I had extreme pain when breastfeeding but kept being told by umpteen midwives and "bfc"s that my latch was fine, good etc. I was also being told by the same person in some cases, that it should not hurt.. Gah!

I also would have appreciated being warned about cluster feeding - I have several friends who gave up because they thought it was a sign that they did not have enough milk. You are given NO information about cluster feeding by NCT or NHS...

PMSL at Pessimistic taking her pants off to change the subject!

I always find that removing my pants is a handy way to change the direction of a conversation

bushymcbush you are right there needs to be loads more support for mums and to let them know that there shouldn't be pain. If there is it is probably a bad latch and mums should be shown how to correct it. I know a mum who was crying in pain every feed for 4 months. HV's, GP's and her family all tried to get her to stop but baby was gaining so she carried on. Finally someone showed her where she had gone wrong and she had pain free feeds and was over the moon.
More support should only be a good thing which is why I have just finished training to be a peer supporter. I have breastfed 4 dc's and I still learnt loads of stuff on the course

bushy, you tell me ' the point being made here, quite rightly I think, is that there is no preparation at antenatal classes that bf can be painful or what you can do if it is. Yes for a great many women (not all, but an awful lot) this is their experience and they just don't understand why.'

No, the point being made was that people should be told it is 'exceptionally painful' and (by implication) nothing can be done to amend that.

Which isn't true.

As for antenatal classes, I expect there must be some that don't make the point clearly enough that breastfeeding can be painful - I give antenatal classes and I always raise this, usually by saying 'what have you heard about bf?' or by asking about their knowledge of friends' and family's experiences bf....and I have yet to do a class where we have not discussed pain and what can be done about it. I don't think I am unusual in ensuring that pain (and problems of other sorts) are part of the class.

You mention a midwife who suggested there was something wrong with you when you reported pain and that you should just stop. You are describing shoddy postnatal care and a midwife who needs some training, not the antenatal class.

LOL @ Pessimistic and eye roll for the practice nurse :(

I think you can be 'doing everything right' from the so-called experts point of view and if you know no more than they do, then it will hurt.

I was in exquisite pain with DS, peeling squished nipples, agony, plus poor weight gain. Everyone told me my latch was fine. I researched, and it was classic symptoms of tongue-tie, HV told me nope. So what else can I do?

Thankfully it got easier after a few months.

Feeding DD now, no problems.

Because she doesn't have a tongue-tie.

If the experts can't help, then unfortunately it is just going to hurt.
So we'd better switch out the experts don't you think?

I've had 9 babies. Bf them all. First 2 weeks with all of them was painful, moreso during the first week. and with one it went on for 6 weeks.

I knew how to bf. I knew what should be happening. None of the babies had tongue-tie or other issues (apart from inexperience, I suppose).
I accepted that for me the first 2 weeks would generally be toe-curling until the baby and breasts adjusted to feeding.
I don't think I'm unique so I presume there must be other women out there who feel pain when bf-ing even when there is nothing wrong.
Just thought I mention it for anyone out there that thinks there is always something wrong if there is pain. Sometimes the only thing to be done is to let time pass and things settle down.

Obviously, this doesn't mean don't investigate whether the pain is caused by a problem but ime it doesn't always mean there is.

Slightly different tack, but nannyl linked bf with cloth nappies. I had this a few weeks ago when during ds's first round of jabs the nurse noticed he was wearing cloth. She said 'oh you'll be able to latch him on to help with the pain'. I explained that I couldn't as he is ff. She was like this--> and said 'but cloth users are always bf-ers!'

Because obv us ff-ers are simply consumers and polluters

All breastfeeding counsellors have come across 'mystery pain' - the woman who reports severe pain on feeding but she's told positioning and attachment are fine, baby has no tongue tie, and there's nothing to say 'why' she has this pain.

All I can say is that in many (not all) of those cases, there does turn out to be a tongue tie (often a hard to spot one, like a posterior tongue tie); there is a way of getting the baby onto the breast for a 'deeper latch' and that changing the way the baby comes to the breast does make a difference.

Many women are told 'everything looks fine!' and it is a lack of experience or skill in the observer that prevents improvement.

A lot of breastfeeding counsellors find that as time goes on, they get better at these skills.

I don't regard pain as something that arrives as a mysterious event with no reason or cause. There is always a cause and like juuuuule says, it should always be investigated. Sometimes, the pain just does go, as the baby grows, but I would explain that as a result of the baby being able to open wider and get more breast in!

"but I would explain that as a result of the baby being able to open wider and get more breast in!"

In a situation like that though, there is nothing to be done apart from put up with the pain and wait for time to pass until the baby is more able.

Sometimes, the pain just does go, as the baby grows, but I would explain that as a result of the baby being able to open wider and get more breast in!

This seemed to be the case for me with DD. Feeding her was painful in the 1-2 weeks and Iwas told she had a small mouth. Pain went away magically, without any changing of position or anything. I guess her mouth got bigger. Even when it was painful, I had good breast drainage and she was satisfied from the feeds, so I knew it wasnt' a latch problem. We are still going strong at nearly 16 months!

I failed miserably to BF my DS, now 3yrs. He wouldn't latch on whatever we did, and I god poor advice from the HVs and midwifes. They scared me into giving him formula as he was close to dropping 10% of his birth weight. But I started to express, soon got rid of the formula and went on to give him just breastmilk till I went back to work at 10 months (ofcourse with food after 6 months!).

I was totally unprepared for anythign going wrong with breastfeeding and that it could not come naturally to both of us. I attended an NCT class, but the intructor never went over any breastfeeding problems that might arise, never said to get help if it's painful or what to do if we have problems with latching on etc. Only just told us the benefits of BF, which everybody already knew anyway.
Out of 6 of us in the NCT group, all of us when on to breastfeed till 6 months though (I ofcourse was feeding expressed milk). But bang on 6 months, 3 of them stopped, I carried on till 10 months, 2 other girls till 1yr. Pretty good going I think.

When I took DD for her jabs at about 4 months, the nurser asked me if I was BFing. I said yes, and she asked totally? Said yes and she said "wow lucky baby!".

I find it weird that so many mothers get told their babies have small mouths (I have been told this about my babies).

Do the HCP telling mums that mean the 'gape' is small or that the baby has a physically small mouth in comparison to other babies of a similar gestation/size or that compared to the mother's nipple the mouth is small?

How is that helpful? Surely suggesting ways to work around this would be better rather than just offering the fait accompli of 'Your baby's mouth is small' and a shrug?

of my nct group of 9, 2 didn't bf but the rest were all still goingat 6 months, and now at 16-17 months three of us are still bfing.

For me, the pain with bfing was worst during those first few days. I involuntarily yelped so loudly when DS latched on in hospital, other people visiting the ward were making noises about 'should we see if she is ok?' (had my curtains drawn).

I did ask if my positioning and latch were right and was assured they were (but this seems to be bollocks coming from a lot of people). At about 2 weeks a midwife that specialised in breastfeeding came out to see me and said DS might have a slight tongue tie, but didn't seem to think anything needed to be done about it. The pain lessened pretty soon after that.

I was reminded of it again recently, because I'm 8 weeks pregnant with no 2, and when DS feeds now it is agonising, nearly as bad as those first few days. I keep hoping he will stop of his own accord, but I can't put up with this much longer, even if only twice a day.

My HV said "Oh look at the lovely breastfed poo!" in delight .

Truthsweet DD3 had a small mouth. She was almost 4 weeks prem and a very scrawny baby. My nipple just fitted in her mouth as she didn't seem to have the strength to open her mouth wide. After a few days of reltching her and encouraging her to open her mouth she got stronger and could really open her mouth wide. She is stil bfing at 16m and she can open her mouth huge now

Yank When I was pregnant with dd3 and still feeding dd2 I found my nipples went very hard and feeding was very painful.

Over the past month i have had to endure many conversations with many health professionals (turns out my month long period was a miscarriage) and the overwhelming shock that i stopped breastfeeding ds just before his second birthday! Some even made me feel a bit freakish. One couldn't believe that i managed to successfully breastfeed a baby who was born early .

Tiktok - thanks for pulling every part of my post apart. I am indeed describing shoddy postnatal care as well as total lack of antenatal information. As a whole - both before and after birth - women are let down (excuse the pun) on the issue of pain and they have real difficulty accessing the support and information they need to overcome it.

I am familiar with the support you freely give on here to women who are struggling with various bf problems and I absolutely applaud and admire you for that, but please don't patronise ("oh no not that old chestnut") people's very real negative experiences even if you disagree with the sentiment.

I'm delighted that your own antenatal classes cover this issue (if someone else brings it up). Lucky, well informed parents. But as you can see, most people's antenatal (and postnatal) experience is not like this at all.

I have to support bushy. They is virtually no information offered by NCT or nhs during antenatal classes about things like pain, endless cluster feeds, growth spurts and tounge tie. No one I know had ANY info on these things prior to giving birth. Tiktok the advice you give on here is amazing and exceptional but I think you have a Rose tinted view of antenatal education in this case. Happily you are in a position to change this being a bf counsellor yourself. I will give two examples of my own woeful experience with NCT. Firstly during our bf session she spent most of time discussing images of breastfeeding, no use whatsoever. She then gave us incorrect info about hindmilk. Oh yes and men were excluded from the session! Secondly when I rang the national helpline at three weeks crying because dd had been feeding constantly for twenty hours the lady mostly commented that she could hear dd crying. She utterly failed to mention the three week growth spurt! the only place I received decent support was mumsnet.

i also agree with you bushy

at no point was pain mentioned (and in my case my pain was often NOT the latch because it was sometimes when she wasnt even feeding... milk entering my boobs was agony (just for a few days) as well as milk leaving.... again it was not painful for long, but long enough to have made someone who was not determined to BF give up.

(2 of my friends gave up within a week because it hurt.... what a shame they didnt realise its relatively normal and if they had stuck at it it might stop)

The BF person at our NCT class didnt mention pain (except to point out you are doing it wrong)..... Well ALL of my NCT class who have BF, everysingle one of us did have some pain, (Including a midwife who is an expert at telling people about their latches)

The only person who had ever mentioned pain before was one of my best friends who has since become a BF counsellor.... she told me that it hurt her, but only for a few days and that it got better. she also made the point to me 3 years ago how no-one had told her that it might hurt.

I do know one person (close friend) who has never had any pain, ever (during feeding) but she is the only person who reports no pain ever.... every other BFing person who i know ( and i feel i know a lot of mummies who BF, or who have tried to BF) and have discussed BF-ing with have had pain in the very early days.... which has gone by itself