I want to wean my DD (2.10). Can you help?

[KellyKettle]

I am tandem feeding DD1 (2.10) and 6 week old DD2. I hate it and it's become a daily battle with DD which just can't go on anymore.

So I need some advice on how to wean a toddler. We've started night weaning and although it's been two weeks, she still wakes demanding milk between 4-6am (usually one waking for 10 mins or so).

I don't want to do don't offer don't refuse because that could take years.

I'm regretting ever bf her in the first place at the moment.

Kelly, you've just made me cry.
I can't help I'm afraid, as I am in the same situation as you and have no idea what to do. When dd1 nurses I actually feel like I hate her and I feel so angry but she gets so distressed when i stop her. She is mostly very good with countdowns, but I can't even bear a minute or 10 seconds at the moment. And she's just dropped her daytime nap but every now and then she gets herself so tired and in such a state and nothing will calm her apart from nursing- and that's like magic. So I can see how much it means to her, and that's why it's breaking my heart that i don't want to do it any more.
Sorry for rambling and for being unable to help...but you're not on your own in feeling like you do. And also, however much you regret bf now, when this is all over and you look back on it- which will happen! - you certainly won't regret bf. It's only because you're in the middle of it now.
Thinking of you.

Hmm it's a night waking/comfort thing so really you've got to find something else that she can do that will be comforting for her. Is there anything else that could comfort her? Would some cuddles and cup of warm milk do? Does she have a special comforter/teddy or doll that she can cuddle when she has a warm drink from a cup? Has she ever self-settled in her bed with playing with toys or with mobile/night light/music etc? Perhaps you could build something like that into her usual bedtime/wake/routine so that when you withdraw the breastfeeds, she still has the other comforts? Or do you already do all that?

Thanks loopy. I've cried all morning. Perhaps we can support each other? It's so comforting to not feel alone, especially with the feelings nursing brings. No one understands.

I feel rage when she nurses and the only way to get through it is to almost have an out of body experience. I know that sounds dramatic but I just have to disconnect.

DD actually woke and forgot to ask for milk so she hasn't had any today. I am waiting for her to ask though.

Sorry gourd my MW arrived whilst I was mid-reply to loopy so I carried on posting.

She doesn't have comforters etc, nothing that would replace milk anyway. She also doesn't really drink cows milk. I don't think it's about the milk, it's the whole package.

She doesn't settle great with DH but he works away a lot. The nights are getting easier, it's the demands in the day which are worse. I just want her to stop.

I can remember hating BF DS2 in pregnancy and then in the first few weeks of DD's life. It wasn't a battle as such but lots of 'you get other food all DD gets is milk' and 'at this age all you got was milk' helped. And lots of cuddles witht he spare arm when I was feeding DD.

Some of my friends had a special 'nursing box' which was filled with toys that their older DC could only play with when the baby was nursing so they had something to occupy them that was theirs and special.

I does get easier. I promise and it's still a very useful parenting tool. If you want to wean in the day it might be worth reading this book

If I cuddle her wot she pulls at my clothes and tries to latch on. A tandem-feeding friend suggested feeding each time she asked in the day but I just can't. It makes my skin crawl.

I have tried counting which occassionally works but often I get to, say, 20 and then she clamps down with her teeth.

I know that's all behaviour of someone not ready to wean but I don't know what to do. I'm so upset about it.

In fact I'd love to cuddle her, I miss cuddling her but it ends up being a drama

Oh, nursing both at once used to make my skin crawl too. I ended up tandem nursing for 28 months and did it at the same time only in the most desperate of circumstances.

I know it's awful at the moment (really I do ) but it sounds like right now your DD jsut needs losts of reassurance. Do you have family nearby who can make a big fuss of her while virtually ignoring the baby so she feels really special. Doyou think that would help as a temporary measure?

Just composed a big long post but I don't have any direct experience so it all sounded very rambly! I read your other thread and really feel for you, I know the 'touched out' feeling so well and people tend to just think, 'well what do you expect, nursing so long, rod for own back,' etc rather than actually helping. I think in your other thread you said you were getting some advice from a hv and nursery nurse soon and I certainly hope they take a more sympathetic and constructive approach.

You might look back on this time and think how hard it was, but I really hope that as time goes on you don't feel horrid about your overall bf relationship with DD1- it's just awful at the moment. Thinking of you.

Thank you both.

Yes, we're staying with my mum at the moment. DH is back tomorrow. DD1 has been lovely today, she's had milk once, very briefly at lunchtime but bit me when I asked her to stop.

Did you find the early days hard Wot? I would like my feelings to change but I don't know how that will happen. I never thought I would wean DD. I know she's still a baby, she doesn't understand.

Yes cold I have only just admitted to family how I feel because of the rod-for-your-back stuff.

I'm seeing the GP tomorrow about PND. DD1 has been brilliant today. I took a suggestion off the other thread and played with her while DD2 was sleeping in the sling.

Did I find the early days hard? Hell yeah. But DS1 had just started preschool (which had it's disadvantages too) so I had times when I could just be with them. Bothe boys would appear in our bed at various times of the night so DH would decamp with whichever boy to their bed - my mum called this 'Musical Beds'. As a result of this I can remember feeling 'touched out' by about 7.30 am and shrieking (DS2 is a twiddler who has to maintain some kind of skin contact at all times ) at the to just leave me alone for a minute. Funtimes

I tried to get out lots and let the housework drift, doing the bare minimium of housework and going to bed at 7.30pm with DD leaving DH to get the DSs to sleep just so I could have some time away from the older two.

It gets better :) It really does. DD is now 2.9, both DSs are on school and I have little bit more time to get stuff done and get to go out in the evenings etc.

Do you have an LLL group or similar near you? You might find that some other mums in the same position might be able to help with ideas.

No LLL here, I went to one with DD1 but we've moved since.

DD1 starts preschool in January so I have another 6 weeks or so of her at home all the time. It will help if I can catch up on sleep when she's there.

I just never expected it to be this hard. I think if DD2 would settle at night without the crying fits and DD1 would sleep through and not scream for milk in the night then I could cope with the day. When I'm home we have things we can do. I think I wouldn't feel compelled to wean then. Maybe.

I've just fed DD1 and it was fine. I was still very relieved when she stopped though.

Can your DH take time off work so you can do a definite nightweaning. Him taking her to another room or something for a few nights. Will that help do you think?

Hes going to ask for some unpaid leave. He is off for two weeks over Christmas but I need it to be done by then.

Hi Kelly, just popping in to add my support. I have a similar thread going that you posted on. It must be so difficult coping with feeding a newborn and an older child. I'm finding it difficult enough feeding the one.

I totally understand the 'rage' you are describing. I think it must be hormonal as I experience very strongly when I am pre-menstural but not really so much at other times. It took me months to realise what was going on as I would have a few days where I was desperate to wean and then all of a sudden I would be fine again.

I imagine that at 6 weeks post birth your hormones are all over the place.

Yes, I suppose so itallstarted

After DD1 was born I had terrible pain with episiotomy and PTSD kept me awake at night so when people said my hormones would be partly responsible I believed it because I didn't feel like me.

DD2s birth was lovely and I was convinced that the post natal period would be easier this time. I feel like me again so I the hormone thing didn't occur to me.

Having said that, I only feel this way feeding DD1 so it must be linked. I wonder if it will get easier as my hormones settle down?

I've just weaned DS (3.2) although he's an only child, so no advice on the tandem feeding etc, but lots on the 'argh, just get off me now' front!

We cut down by being very busy e.g. 1st thing in the morning feeds I cut out by leaping out of bed and showering, so he didn't have a chance to ask, or distracting him with something. Night weaning happened for us ages ago (with the aid of the No Cry Sleep Solution book, he'd been feeding up to 6 times a night for the 1st 19 months so I was very ready for it!) and so for the past year or so we were down to twice a day - pre-nap and pre-bed, unless DS was ill or out of routine or anything, so perhaps it was easier to wean completely? Although he did seem very attached to feeding and I was expecting it to be a nightmare, so I was surprised how easy and quick its been.

Anyway, I talked to DS every day for a couple of weeks about how he was 'such a big boy' and soon wouldn't be having milk anymore. Then after a week or so of that, after milk at bedtime I told him that we could have a 'little chat' and that thats what we'd do when he didn't have milk anymore - we cuddled in the dark and he'd say 'tell me about the things big boys can do' and I'd tell him about using potty/scooter/learning to read & count etc.

Then I started offering him a choice before sleeps of 1 book and milk or 3 books and no milk. Generally he went for the latter option. I'd make sure he was sipping water whilst we were reading so he wouldn't be thirsty. If he asked for milk after the stories then I'd remind him he'd made his choice... if he got upset I'd tell him he could have milk at bedtime/later if he still wanted it (he'd always forgotten by then).

A couple of times over the 1st week he did feed. Then he had a whole week of no feeding(!) and when we stayed at my parents he came into bed with me in the early morning, usually a cue for a veeery looooong feed, and he just came and cuddled - which was very lovely. Then the day we got back home he was tired and grumpy and asked to feed. He was v upset, so I let him have a go to see what would happen. He fed from the side that he used to feed less from and couldn't latch properly.

He was quite surprised and told me milkies was all gone and that we needed to go to the shop to get some more ! I said he was big now so he'd have to have milk in a cup from now on and he hasn't asked for it since! :)

Leeloo, just wanted to say that is a lovely story. Good on you.

leeloo thanks for posting that. It sounds like you did it with no distress to your DS.

Busy sounds doable then. When we're home we have 3 local groups we can go to in the morning so jumping up to get ready for those is a good idea. The other 2 days will be the days DD1 goes to preschool.

Were you consistent in saying no? What if he was ill or hurt?

Thank you again, that gives me hope that I can do it gently.

he'd say 'tell me about the things big boys can do'

When I read that leeloo I cried... lovely post

Thanks for posting that leeloo, I'm starting to think about weaning my 2.11 year old and your post has been really encouraging as well as giving me some ideas of how to approach it with her. Hope we can manage it with as little trauma as you.

Kelly - I've just sent you a messagge

I recently had to stop bf DS3 very suddenly due to having emergency eye surgery and then having to use some particularly noxious eye drops that were contraindicated with bf. I had huge discomfort (thats a whole other story) but DS3 sailed through despite being previously very keen on his booby and waking several times in the night to be fed. Admittedly he is only 13 months but I had still antipciated a battle which did not happen and he is now sleeping through the night.
I can see that it will be tougher with an older toddler but I think as leelo's post shows you may have an easier time than you think you will.
Lots of luck!

Oh Kelly, it sounds like you are having a tough time at the moment. I really hope you find a way out of this that makes everyone happy.

I have tandem fed twice now. I had the skin crawling, get me away from this feeling when I actually tandem nursed so I had to stop that 8 weeks in (it was either that or wean DD1). I have never actually tandem nursed with DD2 & DD3 in the 2+ years since DD3 has been born. This has limited the nursing aversion but I still feel it from time to time.

Have you tried distraction to help with the feelings? Not distracting your toddler but distracting you - I found having my laptop to hand, a book, calling a friend, eating playing a computer game helped to take my mind of the sensation of nursing which seemed to lessen the feelings of 'argh get off me'.

You could try distracting yourself for the feeds she really can't do with out and work on eliminating the ones she can do with out (at times I turned on the bedside light and read for early morning feeds even though I could have done with more sleep!).

Do the feelings happen when you nurse the baby too or just the toddler?

It could be she feels she is losing you to the baby so is clinging on to the one thing that makes you be with her - nursing - no one else can do it but you and the more you push her away, the more she is trying to nurse. If she wasn't bfing she might be demanding to wear a nappy and have you change her every 5 minutes or insist you spoon feed her on your lap when she can use a knife and fork.

I know part of my frustration was down to DD1 backing off from food and exclusively nursing for 2 weeks when I needed her to be a big girl and be more independent and not nurse so much, of course she was only 20m and nowhere near be able to do/be what I expected.

I still have unrealistic expectations of her - I had a burst ovarian cyst at home (I didn't know why I was in so much pain though) and she made me lie down, got me a pillow and blanket, got the phone to call DH and entertained her sisters (3.11y & 2.1y) in the playroom while I groaned on the floor on the landing.

Whilst I am ever so proud of her and have told her this - I was talking to a friend about it and quipped that I wished she not let DD3 play with a tub of sequins which got emptied all over the rug. DD1 is 5 not 15!! She did an amazing thing that afternoon but I just set the bar too high for her. I've not said any of this to her though.

Is it part of being the PFB that the expectations are set high and by the time the next child reaches that age we realise just what they can/can't do so cut them some slack or perhaps I am just a hard task master!

Thanks for the lovely replies! I wasn't sure if I was typing way too much (DH asked what the essay was about!) but I know I was very stressed about weaning so its nice to be able to be reassuring - I really wasn't sure if I was ready to wean - let alone whether DS was - and I wasn't sure how I would parent without feeding (I know that sounds odd, but I'm hoping other extended BFers can relate), but once I introduced the idea to DS it made more sense to me too and it got easier as the days went on. Actually knowing that I was weaning made me really appreciate the last few feeds - thinking that this could be the 'last feed' made me much more tolerant of it.

'Were you consistent in saying no? What if he was ill or hurt?' - In general or in the last weeks? In general, no not at all. Many times he'd be ill or under the weather, or have an eye infection that BM could clear up overnight and I'd feed loads whenever he wanted to and be very comforted that he was getting the sustinence (sp?) he needed and be glad I hadn't weaned yet. Then when he got better we'd cut down again - and I'd begin to feel irritated again. In the last few weeks... one day he had a temperature and I felt very, very guilty as it was after a few days of no milk. He actually didn't ask for milk when he was ill then though, I think once he'd started weaning it just wasn't his first thought anymore and he had cuddles etc instead.

Really I just played it by ear - all my RL friends weaned about a year or earlier, so no advice there and I did get the 'how weaning happens book' but didn't find any practical ideas in there either, so I just fumbled along. :) e.g. I was really uncertain whether to let DS try to feed the last time he did, as it seemed a step back after a week of 'progress', but it was more important that DS had the comfort he needed than any grand plan and it ended up working out well. :) So maybe the best advice is to trust your instincts?

coldcomfortHeart - the thing that made me cry, was in the early days of telling him about weaning, DS said 'when I grow up and become a mummy, I will give milkies to my [DS's name]' - it was just so adorable. :) Although I had to stop heartless DH from telling DS that actually it wasn't likely to happen! Men?!

Truthsweet, your post has rung a lot of bells with me, I definitely expected too much from dd1 when dd2 arrived. I can really se that now dd2 has reached that age. Kelly, I remember you helping me out on that front realising my expectations of dd1 were too high.

I find my nursing aversion is worse if I do something to distract myself and it improves if I really focus on her feeding so I suppose everyone is different and it is worth trying both ways.