Giving up - feel terrible.

[featherbag]

Hi all, will try not to go on too much, but want to give as much of the story as possible, need opinions.

DS, now 5 weeks 2 days, was born 8 weeks early. He was in NICU for the first 3 weeks, on respiratory support, in an incubator, jaundiced for the the first week. I was meant to have had a CS at 38 weeks because of previous surgery, so had not prepared even slightly for a natural birth, however he arrived so quickly there was no choice - no-one believed I was in labour until I was 5cm, so I didn't even get any pain relief. I was terrified. I had GD, a bicornuate uterus, hypertension and a knackered placenta, no-one's sure which one or combination of these was to blame for his early arrival.

I was asked in the delivery room if I wanted to bf. I've always wanted to do this, so of course said yes. I was then dumped in a room on the post natal ward furthest away from the nurses' station, given a breast pump (no discussion, no advice, it wasn't even taken out of the box) and left to get on with it. After a lot of hard work and sheer bloody mindedness determination, fast forward 3 weeks, I was about to leave NICU with an exclusively bf DS (I had some great support on here at that time, I was so proud of myself). The NICU staff told me to stop using the electric breast pump I'd been using 8 times a day as soon as I started rooming in, 48 hours before leaving. On leaving, I was convinced DS wasn't getting enough milk - I'd tried saying this to several people, but no-one would listen. I also didn't think I should just stop expressing, but again was told it was best for DS.

Anyway, 2 weeks + on, and I've had to give him formula for the last 10 days (after he lost weight quite dramatically, he's putting it on very well now), supplementing with what meagre amounts of breast milk I can still produce, in a bottle. Turns out he wasn't strong enough to stimulate my supply on his own, and it's gone from 1100ml a day to 200ml, if I'm lucky. The constant trying to express, as well as doing all night care (he's quite unsettled at night) after my husband's gone back to work, has got me on my knees. I'm attached to the pump for 4 hours a day, for 200 mls. This is even after taking domperidone for the last week to try and get things going again. The final straw was last night, DS for the first time was not interested in my breast - I had been putting him to the breast each feed before giving him a bottle. He would latch on, then spit it out, eventually getting frustrated and starting to cry.

I've had enough. I've tried so bloody hard, I'm getting support from bf counsellors etc. now we're home, but had zero support in the early days, and some advice that was downright wrong. I've just had a heart-to-heart with DH, and he says he's thought for days I need to accept it's not meant to be, as he can see me getting to the point where I'm so stressed about bf I'm not enjoying DS as much as I should be. I think he might be right. I guess I need to hear others' opinions, am I a pathetic failure for giving up now? Or should I accept I've given it my best shot and concentrate on enjoying my adorable DS while he's little?

Oh my goodness! You poor thing.

No advice I'm afraid but utmost admiration for trying sooooo hard. Could you reconcile yourself to supplementing formula with just a little expressed breastmilk each day? Just so he gets the antibodies?

You are amazing.

You have done everything you possibly could have done. It is other people who have let you and your ds down. You are not letting your ds down at all and you are not a failure. Most people would have stopped a long time ago.

There is no shame in stopping now if things are not getting better. You have your own health and sanity to maintain in addition to your son's needs.

There is one more thing you can do though and that is to print out your story and to send it to the head of midwifery at your hospital. It may not feel as though it will make a difference but it is something that they do need to hear while it is soon enough after the even that relevent people can be spoken to and to try to make sure it doesn't happen to another mother.

So sorry to hear of your experience, unfortunately the "support" received or lack thereof is not unheard of and unfortunately all too common.

You have done fabulously so far and should well and truly pat yourself on the back.

Obviously only you can decide upon whether to continue to bf, but your supply will deplete (sp?) as the more you supplement with formula and the more you feed the more milk you body will provide. Furthermore, the breast requires more effort from your baby as opposed to the bottle.

If you wish to continue bf, may I suggest going back to basics with lots of skin to skin and offering the breast every 2 hours to up your supply.

Whatever you decide, remember this is a very precious time which you should both enjoy. In my experience of bf, the first 6 weeks are always the hardest and the fact you have got to 5 weeks should not be associated with failure, you have given him an amazing start so well done featherbag

I really sympathise Featherbag, it must be so frustrating that after all you have been through that you are now in this situation. However, before you give there is one thing that occurs to me that you might try. It's called a supplemental nursing system and quoting from the Medela website:

"First developed to help adoptive mothers induce lactation by feeding their babies at the breast to trigger hormonal changes that enhance milk production. This adjustable flow-rate system can also be used to give supplements while keeping baby on the breast."

It's a bit like a drip, but you hang the bag around your neck and attach the tube to your nipple. Your DS might accept the breast if he can get the milk as easily as the bottle and this would stimulate your milk production at the same time. The downside is that you have to clean the bag and tubes regularly, but given what you have been through so far, maybe it is worth the faff?:)

Either way, you are certainly not a failure. You have been failed IMO.

Here's a link to the medela site

[http://www.medelabreastfeedingus.com/products/breastfeeding-devices/51/supplemental-nursing-system-sns]

and on amazon

[http://www.amazon.co.uk/Medela-Supplemental-Nursing-System/dp/B000W73YKY]

Thanks for the kind words - indith, I have spoken to the breastfeeding services co-ordinator midwife and given her the full story, she was appalled and promised to take it further. Little - he is currently only getting a little breastmilk each day anyway, but it's taking me 4 hours to produce, 4 hours in which I can do absolutely nothing else, not even hold my baby. kd, I'm offering the breast before every feed and using a hospital-grade electric dual pump for 4 hours every day, and getting about 200mls. I've tried everything, I really have, but I'm just so permanently stressed and guilty-feeling I feel like I'm becoming detached from DS. I sobbed my heart out giving him the first bottle, now I'm in tears regularly because I feel I'm failing him. I'm starting to wonder which I'll be regretting more when he's no longer a baby, giving up and just enjoying our time together before I go back to work, or not continuing. I'm leaning towards regretting not enjoying him more, I'll never get this time back.

with hyperlinks this time:)

www.medelabreastfeedingus.com/products/breastfeeding-devices/51/supplemental-nursing-system-sns

and on amazon

www.amazon.co.uk/Medela-Supplemental-Nursing-System/dp/B000W73YKY

Thanks Ring, the bf support MW suggested this and I was all for trying it, but tbh after forking out £90 to hire the pump, plus buying all the things we thought we had another 2 paydays to afford in one go, plus transport to NICU every day for 3 weeks, I'm not sure I can afford another £20. We're already living off the contents of the (thankfully well-stocked) storage freezer!

Hi Featherbag, I am really sorry this should be a good time for you both and he will pick up on your stress very easily.

Will he latch on and feed ok, if so try and give yourself a break from the pump. I know of several mums (myself included) who have successfully bf but failed to express successfully (I can't produce a drop after DS2 but got upto 12oz when DS1 was born)

That's a shame Feather:( However, if it worked and you got him back to EBF, it would certainly pay for itself in the long run if you think of the cost of formula. Also you could check out whether you could borrow one. I borrowed one from my local bf support group.

Whatever you decide to do, Featherbag, please do not think you have failed your son. From what you have said nothing could be further from the truth.

Perhaps you could consider donor milk if you are unable to continue?

Oh my love you are NOT failing him. You have done amazingly to have got this far. He has had more bm than some babies get, maybe try some reverse psychology.

When I had my first dc, my gp (who was also a mum of several small children) said when they hand you your newborn baby they hand you a big bag of gulit to dip into throughout motherhood..... I read a thread just now and currently feel guilty that I don't read as much as I should with my 6 yo!

Go and give both your dh and (I bet scrummy) ds a big hug and get on with enjoying family life.

Big hugs.

This hit a chord with me because I myself tried very hard to breastfeed - it was something I visualised doing - but like you I had various problems, from a traumatic birth, DD being in NICU, being ill, low supply etc etc. Despite trying everything I packed it in because I was getting seriously depressed.

I don't want to influence your decision in any way, but I will say that while I agree that breastmilk is best, there ARE equally important things that you do for your baby - like giving lots of love, smiles, cuddles etc. I deeply regret the first 6-8 weeks, I was so obsessed with trying to get BF to work that all my stress, depression and anxiety was, I'm sure, picked up on by my baby girl. She screamed and cried ALL the time, and I missed out on what should have been a very happy and joyful time for us all.

You sound like an AMAZING mum - and you HAVE done the best for your baby - you have NOT failed. You have also given lots of breastmilk already - and the fact that you have tried so hard shows how much you love your DS. If you feel you can push on - then go for it - but if you feel you cannot - then know that you are also doing the best for your baby by stopping - because if you are happy, your baby will be happy too, and will thrive.

Hope this helps some.

Oh pet. You sound so unhappy

I had a really hard time bfing as well. I eventually managed to express full time for three months using a double Lactaline pump but it was not easy.

We mix-fed for a few weeks after my son became very jaundiced (it now seems quite apparent he had an undiagnosed Tongue tie) and I remember that terrible feeling of "failure" when I had to give him
formula. I pumped day and night to get my supply up.

But now I am further away from that terrible hormonal time, I do think I would do things differently a second time. I focused so hard on getting enough milk out for DS that I did miss out on a lot of cuddles. It was also very stressful and limited what I could do (can't really whip out the old milking machine in a cafe!)

I'm now pregnant with number 2 and though I plan to attempt bf again, if it doesn't work out for whatever reason I think this time I will feel a lot happier about going onto formula or mixed feeding. Those early cuddles are precious and so is your sleep - getting up two or three times a night to pump was, in retrospect, pretty awful!

When I switched my DS to formula at 3 months he was... Fine. Absolutely fine. And I was a hell of a lot happier.

If I were in your position I would try mixed feeding. Although loads of people say it's impossible I know several friends who always gave a bottle once or twice a day and bf the rest of the time. If bf is not causing you pain (which was my problem) then why not keep it going for cuddles, comfort etc whilst also making sure your son is getting enough formula (or donated milk?!?) to keep him healthy? You may well find that as he gets stronger you can phase out the bottles / cups - I'm sure a nice warm boob and cuddles doesn't lose its appeal overnight!

Cup feeding could help avoid "nipple confusion" or whatever it's called.

If you have a local milk bank or a friend who could donate bm would that help you feel better about it? If so do some research. Once I got into the swing of things I had loads of milk and would have been happy to help out a friend by donating the odd bag of milk!

Whatever happens you've already given your son a great start, he's had the colostrum and a good few weeks of bm in that early fragile stage.

You don't need to feel guilty. You're so obviously working to do the absolute best for him - THAT is what makes a great mum, that desire to always do the best you can! I imagine the advantages of breast milk pale in comparison.

Being mum to a newborn is bloody hard work, you need to look after yourself a bit too so you can carry on doing it.

Sounds like you are having an awful time. Stop expressing - such hard work and so stressful when you should be relaxing with your new baby.

Agree with others - keep offering your breast but otherwise formula feed. Don't feel guilty - you were not supported and got off to a rubbish start.

I just wanted to say I'm moved by your story. Your DS is very lucky to have such a caring dedicated mother. No advice from me but lots of admiration.

Hi feather- I remember you posting from the hospital. I have sooo much admiration for u keeping going so long with all the bother you gave had. I think you need now to allow yourself to let go and do what your instinct is telling you. If you need permission to stop, there is no one ( I imagine) that would not give it after the amazing job you have already done and effort you have put in. It took me 4 babies to "master" bf ( and I'm still posting here with probs!!). With my first 3 I had probs, but started them on ff pretty quickly- I didn't allow myself to think about it- needed done - so I did it. Some guilt but it went when I was enjoying the smiles and contentment. I'm now happily bf dc4- again with some initial probs but nowhere near what you have been through!! Please just do what you think us best for both of you, and know that you went above and beyond for your lo. Big hugs, and please be happy in whatever you decide.

Hi Featherbag, My 'children' are eighteen and sixteen years old now . I breastfed one of them for nine months , the other for six weeks. It wasn't working out. She had been given bottles in the hospital because she was refusing to suckle and losing body temperature. Eventually the hospital gave me a choice of offering her a bottle or taking a blood test from her. I didn't want people sticking needles in her so went with the bottle. I think it confused breast feeding as when we came home she still would hardly ever suckle and I was needing to supplement her feeding. After six weeks unsuccessful weeks I switched her to bottle fed formula.

As I said my children are grown up . Both are strong and healthy, have done well at school, and I would have to say that in childhood the formula fed child was healthier with far less illnesses. She also has less allergies. Her brother had childhood eczema and has hay fever.

I honestly think you have done your very best. You have given our baby the best start you could. He has had the benefit of breastmilk, but you don't need to carry on when it is causing you so much upset. You are a good mum and are definitely not failing your baby now. Breastmilk may be good for him , but he's already reaped benefits. A happy relaxed mum is also good for him.

Another mum here who desperately wanted to breastfeed but had to give up. DS wasn't interested (lazy bugger) so I ended up expressing, I know exactly what you mean - I hated that bloody pump, worst of all was it deprived me of the little sleep I could have had, so I was more tired and grumpy than I needed to be.
I evenually gave up at 10 weeks (DP got cross with me for that - I'll never forgive him the insensitive bastard) and was much happier (although a little bit guilty) afterwards.

You've done an amazing job and your DS got a lot of the goodness he needed. Sounds like it's time for you to enjoy him fully - trust your instinct.

I would agree with what lots of others are saying. Enjoy your baby, dont feel guilty, sounds like you are incredibly dedicated. My ds is also just over 5 weeks and I've had a lot of difficulties with bf. I have been giving one bottle per day but yesterday decided to move to formula as it is still not working. I have been so focused on bf and getting so stressed, I think I have missed the bigger picture which is that we have this most amazing baby, my OH keeps saying to me we have done the most amazing thing and he will be absolutely fine, enjoy him!

I'll answer your OP instead of trying to offer advice because it seems to me, and do forgive me if Im wrong, that you have already decided to stop putting both of you through this unhappiness and perhaps you are in a way looking for permission to stop rather than advice (which if you are anything like me will just make you feel worse about your decision, as if someone is saying "oh you REALLY havent tried EVERYTHING though have you?) (no offence to posters here, sometimes giving advice is just what is needed but in this case I dont think its what the OP is after but again do correct me if I am wrong OP )

You are not a failure, being successful at parenting isnt measured by how you feed your baby, how can it be when generally mums bf for 6 months (for eg) but you actively parent for 20+ years? Its such a tiny portion of their lives its just not possible to be a failure at feeding. You would be a failure if your DS wasnt being fed.

Youve done bloody great considering all of the obstacles you have had. Your DS has already had loads of the good stuff thats in bm, breastmilk is best for sure, but breastfeeding is not always better if its to the detriment of your relationship with the baby at this tender age.

Look at it this way, you are feeling guilty for wanting to be a happier mum so you can bond with your DS and enjoy this lovely time. No offence, but how bloody daft does that sound to you?

You have done amazingly well. Don't be hard on yourself, be angry with those who gave you bad advice and shit support. Formula is not the devil's work, even if the companies behind it are. Cuddle your baby.

If you do want to try again, and don't feel any pressure to do so, only do so if you want, then relactation is possible, especially if you keep putting baby to breast for a suckle. When I had a supply problem the local HV gave me a hospital grade pump on loan for a month - is there anyone in your area who can do this? Although it's hard, the 2.00 a.m. pump is really important if you want to follow this route.

Suckling can be an important thing between you and baby - breastfeeding isn't just about getting milk into baby.

You are doing fab at a time when your hormones are all over the place, your life has been turned upside down by the arrival of your little miracle and there aren't enough hours in the day to eat enough cake either!

feather, when the dust settles, you can write clear and detailed letter about the very poor support and advice you got in the early weeks. Ask them what they plan to do about it. Explain that you had a strong desire and huge motivation to breastfeed and that giving up was very sorrowful for you.

And in the meantime, resolve to bottle feed in a way that's as close as you can get to breastfeeding :) One of the aspects of bf that makes it 'right' for babies is the way closeness, responsiveness and emotional connection are 'built in' to it - when it's going well, of course. You can have all of that with bottle feeding, but you have to sort of think about it more :) So bottle feed skin to skin; don't let any Tom Dick or Harry bottle feed - only you and one (at most two) people who love him should ever do it; don't parcel him round to let others 'have a go'; watch for his responses to ensure he is able to stop feeding when he wants (when you are sure he is thriving); enjoy the closeness and loving feelings you share with him.

Your baby needs you to be confident and strong - not thinking you are a 'pathetic failure' which in any case you are not!!!!

The 'failures' were the HCPs whose job it is to enable you to bf, and they did not.

I do feel for you! My DD struggled to keep expressing after extremely poor advice had her feeding her daughter with formula within the first 12 hours. It really went downhill from there! As an ardent supporter of breastfeeding I was horrified but my husband convinced me to take a step backwards and keep any disapproval to myself which I have to tell you was sooo hard. However, seeing the stress just melt away from my DD and how much easier it was to deal with the guilt rather than struggle with the breast pump, I would urge you to consider which would be better for your baby taking an holistic approach. Yes, bf is best nutritionally but stress is the worst mentally. As you say, you are on your knees, so its affecting you badly which will have a knock on affect with your milk production. Be kind to yourself and you will be far more able to reach the right decision for you.

Wow, thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate it, thought this thread would've died last night! I didn't express last night or overnight, this morning I was leaking and baby was crying for milk so I thought I'd give it a go while I waited for his bottle to warm, and he fed for 15 minutes! I'm still convinced the regimented pumping and stressing is the wrong way to go, but I'm going to carry on offering the breast before bottle for as long as he'll take it, and stop beating myself up when he doesn't. That way he will still get a small amount of breast milk, but a large amount of cuddles from a more chilled mammy. I've just about made peace with the fact that he'll probably never be exclusively bf, but as so many of you have so very kindly pointed out, there are more important things.