Manchester Maternity Unit to no longer supply free formula

[BoastingByStealth]

menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1459696_st-marys-hospital-bans-free-formula-milk-to-make-mums-breastfeed-instead

Does anybody disagree with this new policy?

Apologies if this has been done before, I'm just in the middle of a debate about it, and wanted to canvas opinion.

I haven't read the article but if the hospital in question say they are going to provide sterile teats and bottles then I don't understand the objection.

There is a free option which you are perfectly entitled to reject but if you do reject it then you must supply what is necessary for the alternative.

I really don't see how this is making mothers who FF feel ashamed. You still need to ask for the bottles whether you are providing the milk or not.

As for the cartons being too big; well that's just one of those things. Most women are up and out fairly quickly so you'd really only need a few.

I just want to support entropygirl's comment.

You don't deserve a toasting for that comment at all. You make a VERY good point, and absolutely do NOT deserve to be called a Nazi which is a most offensive term.

Your comment was NOT "nasty", but raised an important issue. The government isn't promoting the BF message to save a bit of cash, but to improve LONG TERM health for mother and child.

You've made a bloody good point:
Why should the NHS provide something at a great cost when something BETTER is available for FREE. Not to mention off setting health problems for mother AND baby - I won't list the benefits, sure everyone knows them by now - therefore saving the NHS more man hours and money in future years. Its a no-brainer.

buttonmoon, formula will still be provided for babies who cannot BF for any reason.

I'm quite surprised to hear any hospital ever WAS providing free formula? Why on earth should they?

Mind you, they do feed the Mums, so now I am not sure!

Re feeding the mums: hospitals feed the patients. So on the postnatal ward the mother, who is the patient, gets food.

In the children's ward (where dd was admitted for weight loss at 12 days) because I was still breastfeeding I was given food - basically that was their way of providing food for the patient. However, if I had not been breastfeeding I would have had to shift for myself despite being stuck in hospital with her (basically would have had to go to the canteen).

So they don't feed just anyone staying in the hospital.

Buttonmoon - apologies! I honestly didnt mean to troll or to upset people.

Boasting - thanks but I obviously need to find a better way to express myself in the future!

I am very new to the whole forum thing and seem to get it wrong more often than right. I should sit and listen a bit longer before trying to contribute.

LeggyBlondeNE - I had the same thing when my DD went in for blood tests as in I was awarded the dubious pleasure of hospital food on the basis that I was BFing (I actual refused all but the yogurt on the basis that my nose and stomach didn't believe any of the rest was really food).

its quite normal to make this change -done in lots of hosptials and as I understand if a mother really can't BF there will be formuala avaiable and also in my local hospital it saved about 30,000 pounds which is a fair amount of money in these times

I know - and if you read my post you'd know that I don't support the provision of formula for mothers who choose to ff.

BF is best for babies. But to be told that when you can't you are harming your child's health is not on. Your aren't. BF can improve the health of mums and babies yes, but that doesn't mean that you are harming - doing something detrimental if you ff. There is a difference. The oppostie of improving health is not harming it. There is a state of inertia. Much of the things which damage the health of ff babies are down to the way we use formula rather than the actual formula itself.

And - for what it's worth - I didn't call her a Nazi. That is a term which I hate and find distinctly ridiculous. I said that I could understand why some people are labelled that when such nasty (as it was) and unnecessary comments are made.

sorry - the opposite of improving is not inertia for example:
if your baby are 4 times more likley to get a stomach upset is that not detrimental - and I don't think the reason for this is known -
not necessirlly they way that formuala is used, it may be the protective effect of BF
if the likelihood of SIDS is increased is that not detrimental?

I would have taken formula in if I had planned to FF, but didn't have it with me when after a very stressful several days trying and failing to BF (probably the worst days of my life), I gave up. As per another poster upthread, it might have sent me over the edge if they had then said 'but you'll have to go out and buy some as we don't have any'. Having said that, if they could have provided the first one, I would have sent DH out to get the rest, but I do think they should have some for emergencies.

I do think the large rafts of people who seem to assume BF comes easily to everybody largely ignore how upsetting and stressful it is to those who try and try and try and fail (which amongst my acquaintance is a rather large percentage - people either tried and failed, or tried and succeeded, nobody made the choice not to BF). It's rarely as simple as people not understanding the benefits, or not being bothered enough about their baby's health, or thinking FF is easier. The right support just isn't there IME. As ever, this move is IMO not fixing the right problem.

D (who finally gave up and gave a bottle of formula when the hospital wanted to feed DD via a tube)

Why don't they just sell the ready made bottles in on the ward or in the hospital shops, rather than have Mums faffing around with kettles or half used cartons.
Our Hospital gives free formula but I don't see why they should really unless it is an emergency. If you choose to formula feed then you realise you are going to have to buy the formula.
Ours gives meal tokens to parents in Childrens ward LeggyBlondeNE whether you are breastfeeding or not.

But Anothername despite my best efforts, my DD ate/drank virtually nothing for the first week of her life, and there was no obvious reason why. Is that not detrimental? Would tube feeding her have been a cheaper/better option for me/her/the NHS than a bottle of formula?

The system isn't working, but this isn't going to help.

D

There's no way I would have assumed I would be given free formula when I gave birth. So RE this decision, I think it makes total sense. Why should a hospital provide it.

I tried to BF, it didn't work out for me (long story). But when I was readmitted to a hospital not too far away from St Marys (6 days after they had stopped giving out 'free formula'), all Mums were given a sheet of stickers to put on their own cartons of milk that can be stored in a fridge for up to 24 hours after opening.

By the fridge there was a massive stock of bottles that had been sterilised and individually sealed so you just picked up a bottle when getting your milk.
Not easy to juggle with a catheter, drip, jug of hot water, but I wouldn?t have expected the midwives/nurses to help me feed my child, just like I didn?t expect them to help me when I was failing at BF (and they didn?t really feed me either as I couldn?t get to the food trolley at the other end of the unit, thank god for DH and chocolate :) )

I think it may backfire on them. Not only will this be unpopular, but other areas that have tried this have found their exclusive breastfeeding rates fall because lots more mums bring formula "just in case" and once it's in the bag it's more tempting to use it, rather than having to ask someone and wait while they explain where it is or get it for you.

I'd rather see maternity units focus on getting UNICEF Baby Friendly accreditation, encouraging peer supporters onto the wards and other measures that have evidence to support their effectiveness at helping mums to breastfeed.

This is just a cost-cutting measure, and actually if it dents the breastfeeding rates it may not save as much as they think.

If they are not allowing powdered formula on the ward then how are they going to demonstrate making up bottles to all mothers who are giving formula before they are discharged, as required by Baby Friendly standards ?

Hmmm... I kind of agree that they shouldn't, however, with DS1 (at St. Mary's) they wouldn't let me leave until I had fed him. I was so desperate to go home and BF help wasn't great. I'd had pethisine and DS was really sleepy, so wasn't going to feed any time soon. I asked for formula just so I could go home. I would have cried if they'd told me I should have brought my own (it would have meant another night in hospital, which I couldn't stand)

I think that it is clear that the way we use formula does have an impact on a baby's health. Being a bit slapdash with bottle cleaning or preparation is the fastest way to ensure your baby has a gastrointentinal problem (which ff babies are more prone to).

The research into SIDS (as far as I am aware) does not take into account any other factors such as the age of the parent, whether the parents smoke, how the baby is laid down to sleep, whether the baby is in the same room as the parents at night, whether the baby uses a dummy etc. You can't extrapolate an outcome based on one factor when other factors have an impact.

I am happy to be corrected re the research though.

I just get riled when I am told that by ff my children from one age or another has had a detrimental effect on their health.

For the people who have made the comment about trying to bf and having difficulties- the hospital will still provide free formula in this case, or at least this is how I interpret this bit:

"And they stressed mums who were medically unable to breastfeed, or had babies too sick to be breastfed, would still receive free milk."

I agree that it would be a bit of a kick in the teeth if they expected you to pay after several hours/days of trying unsuccessfully to get the baby to feed.

However, I think if mothers make a choice to ff before they get to the hospital, they should expect to provide formula. IMO it's exactly the same as providing nappies and clothes- you prepare for your baby's needs in advance.

Fair enough pozzled , but I think it kind of depends on the definition of being 'medically unable'. There was no formal medical diagnosis of why it didn't work for me and DD, it just didn't.

Of my AN/PN group of 9, 3 successfully breastfed and still do, 5 tried and failed, with 3 of those being re-hospitalised and threatened with tube feeding before any HCP suggested a bottle might work, and one never did due to previous surgery etc. I've either got a bunch of very unlucky friends, or the number of people unable to breastfeed is much higher than we are led to believe (particularly on here, where I have read things like 'almost every woman can breastfeed'). I'm sure I wouldn't be classed as medically unable to breastfeed, I had loads of milk, DD just couldn't/wouldn't get it out. So for someone like me and the other 2 in my group who ended up back in hospital, this would just be shit on shit really.

Again, I don't have a problem with paying for formula, it's my responsibility to feed my baby, but as I said above this is simply not tackling the real problem, and is making life just that little bit more shit for the large numbers of women who try, feel the horrendous pressure to continue, and in the end fail anyway.

D

Again, I don't have a problem with paying for formula, it's my responsibility to feed my baby, but as I said above this is simply not tackling the real problem, and is making life just that little bit more shit for the large numbers of women who try, feel the horrendous pressure to continue, and in the end fail anyway.

Which just about says it all really. Thank you Delia.

Well, I am sorry but this is "non news" and to some extent not enforceable. The hospital will have to keep formula available anyway regardless of what they may announce publicly: what about mums who planned to BF but are too sick /in pain to feed/etc? Is the hospital going to ask birth partners to go out at 3 in the morning to fetch formula whilst the mother is perhaps unconscious after serious surgery? What about women who planned to BF, cannot, but have no birth partner who can fetch formula?

All this hospital is going to end up doing is saying to mothers "Bring your own FF just in case" and I really cannot see how this is going to raise BFing rates. It's much easier to put out a cheap headline like this as opposed to providing good 24 hr support for all mums who want to BF.

BTW, I BF to 6 months despite DD being very prem, so no chip on the shoulder there.

Delia - I was too slow to post. Precisely. Just another stick to beat women with.

I don't understand the comments about trying, failing and being sent over the edge having to provide your own.

I was absolutely determined to BF too, and I have been lucky enough to BF all four of mine. However, I would still have taken in some ready made cartons just in case. I disagree this made me more likely to give up. If I had given up it would have been due toit simply not working after many attempts. Why would I have been sent over the edge? I would have packed a few cartons just in case. In the same way that I packed 3 nighties in case I needed to stay each time despite wanting and getting a 6hour discharge.

In the same way, I completely read up on and fully prepared for an ECS, assisted delivery, tearing and stitching and all the differnt pain relievers available despite having my heart set on a natural birth. It was and is my responsibility to plan for most eventualities not go in assuming I'll get by on G&A or will have no difficulty BF. I really don't understand what the issues are.

lovingthecoast logically you are absolutely right and that all sounds very sensible, but fails to take into account the enormous emotional upheaval that some women feel after giving birth, and the emotional investment in wanting to BF. Plus the midwives I encountered who counselled nothing but BF before and after birth, kind of led me to believe that there was no reason why BF wouldn't work because apparently everyone can do it and it's all so straightforward and the most natural thing in the world.

I don't want this to come across as personal, it's a general observation really, but people who have successfully breastfed all their babies probably don't understand how distressing it can be not to, and how the pressure makes it worse, at what is already a time of massive upheaval.

D

I know I shouldn't post but it is heart breaking to hear people talk of 'failing' at breast feeding. The only way you could conceivably be considered to have failed is by not trying.

Maybe this is like C-sections. It is assumed you will attempt a vaginal birth as there are higher risks for mother and baby for C-sections. Elective C-sections should therefore be minimised and should not be provided by the NHS unless there is a medical reason (at which point they arent elective). If things go badly during labour you have to have the C-section. You accept the risks as they are less than that of continuing to attempt vaginal birth. You then (hopefully) do not continue to feel guilty after the fact or become upset when people point out that elective C-sections are not a good idea and risk harming babies and should not be provided on the NHS.

So its assumed you will breastfeed as not doing so poses increased risks to your baby. Elective formula feeding is to be minimised and not provided on the NHS. If feeding goes badly you formula feed because it is better than letting the baby starve. You accept the risks of replacement feeding because it is better than the alternatives. You (hopefully - please please please) do not feel guilty or become upset when people point out that choosing to formula feed is detrimental to babies health and should not be provided on the NHS.

Delia, of course there is enormous emotional upheaval. I know that only too well having given birth just days after losing my mother suddenly.

However, that is the very reason why you have it all prepared before the birth. I know I'm lucky to have managed to BF but I certainly didn't go in assuming it would happen to plan. I assumed I would give it my best shot but if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. Likewise, I did active birth and hypnobirth classes and hoped for a natural, drug free labour. However I made myself fully aware that birth isn't a romantic adventure which works out to plan. I was fully read up on and prepared for all intervention and none.

I can see that it would have been very traumatic to have had my heart set on something and it not happen if I'd just assumed it would. But surely preparation is the key. Nobody really goes into it that naive, do they? If so, then that's the problem, not asking mothers to bring their own formula in case they need it.