Please help

[Pippaandpolly]

DD was born on Monday just before midnight, so is less than 2 days old. She is very mucusy and struggling to breast feed-not sure if the two are related? She goes on for 2 or 3 sucks then stops, which is repeated for about an hour, then I express and syringe feed as well. Midwives are v concerned, all giving conflicting advice. Have had-all she needs is 5 mins a feed, if she's not feeding for 20 mins each time she's starving, wet and dirty nappies don't mean she's feeding well, she can't latch on because her nose is blocked, she can't latch on because my nipples aren't 'outy' enough, she's latching on but she's just lazy, etc etc etc.

Have been told I'm not 'allowed' home until she's feeding properly. Am at my wits end. I want to go home. I'm so tired and sick of different midwives manhandling me. I feel like we're making progress, but just slowly, but that's not good enough. Have been told it would be selfish to go home if that means in a couple of days we have to be readmittes because she's malnourished. Have been told it will be easier when my milk comes in, and also that it will be harder.

I want to go home and be with DH and do this at our own pace. I know an NCT breastfeeding counsellor and will happily seek advice. I feel like shit. One midwife has said my baby has 'beaten her', one 'jokes' with my baby that she 'won't get anything out of there' when we're trying to feed. Am putting her to the breast as much as she wants and at least every 3 hours as a minimum.

What do I do? I'm so, so tired and can't stop crying. Labour lasted from Saturday night till Monday night. I want to go home and take my baby and do this on our own. Am I being selfish? I don't want to make things worse but I can't stop crying and just want to get out of here.

Hi, poor you, it's a lot to go through isn't it?

I don't think you are being selfish wanting to go home Midwives come out to you in the community. Some women have had a home birth and will have been 'at home' from the start, it's not endangering you baby to move away from a hospital ward to feed her and it might just relax you and make it all easier.

Of course I haven't seen you or your baby so can't tell if there is a real problem, but I read your post and thought everyone should just leave you alone for a bit! Sounds like everyone is watching you, everyone has advice and you are being pulled this way and that.

If I were you I'd contact your bfc friend and try to get some distance from all the mw's conflicting advice.

FWIW they do pull off when they've got a blocked nose, of course they do, they need to breath! If your baby is having wet and dirty nappies then she is getting some milk in to wee out! Are her poos still meconium? When they go yellowy that's milk being digested.

oh you poor love- its sounds a nightmare..

first of all, congratulations on the birth of your DD!

OK, not sure what they mean by feeding properly...she is only 2 days old, your milk has not come in yet. What she is doing (feeding little and often) is normal - she is just ordering up the milk!
Babies can (and do) lose some of their body weight in the first few days, and when your milk comes in, she will gain it back.

Wet/dirty nappies DO mean she is NOT dehydrated, which is what you don't want to happen. She is only getting TINY amounts of colostrum at the moment, but this is enough to keep her hydrated and to keep her bowels moving to expel the meconium (black poo)

From what I can gather, MWs are not experts when it comes to breastfeeding. Is there a lactation consultant there, or can you call the local branch of La Leche League to sent someone to help?

also take a look at the Kellymom site

Your hormones are right at the worst point at the moment - everything will look better in a few days, I promise! and yes, I would try to get home as soon as possible. Good luck

I feel so much sympathy with you. I've been in your position 3 times now, the first time was in hospital, and I felt as confused and unhappy as you at the conflicting advice. In the end, I discharged myself. The feeding was still difficult, but I was much happier to be at home and eventually I was able to follow my instincts and feed DS as I wanted to. He's now about to turn 8 and eating me out of house and home!

I had my other 2 babies at home, and they, too, had feeding difficulties. It was still hard, and stressful She gave good advice, helped and stayed with me until he had had a couple of good feeds, and we were OK after that.

If there isn't any other reason for you to stay in hospital, and you have plenty of support and help at home, I'd go in the morning. If you do need to be re-admitted (unlikely for feeding to be honest!), you will be able to stay with your baby just the same as you are now, so won't be in any different a position, but you'll have had a bit of proper rest at home.

I do feel watched, and also like I'm on some weird path I can't get off of. I said I want to breast feed therefore I MUST and if I don't do exactly as they all (conflictingly) say then I'm being selfish/wrong/naive/emotional. I mean, if I were FF there would be no problem-am tempted to tell them I'm giving up and going home to FF just so they get their hands off me-literally.

I just feel like a hospital is not the only place for us to figure this out-why should we be kept here against our/my will?!

She's weeing fine and has had two poos so far though both meconium. The pediatrician who examined her is happy for her to go home but the midwives are constantly telling me I can't. I'm in a private room (for which I'm paying through the nose-and can't afford for much longer) because I just can't bear to be manhandled and belittled on a ward in front of other women.

I'm sorry this is all over the place.

I felt miserable being kept in after DD's birth. She was early & small & too sleepy to feed much. I was feeding her & expressing (but getting hardly anything) then syringe feeding her. As soon as I was allowed home my milk came in and feeding became much easier. I thunk that being allowed out of the hospital helped with that.

just go home! what are they going to do - tie you to the bed??

pack up your things, and walk out.

you will be FINE!

Sorry that your having such a hard time congratulations on your baby though!

I would tell all the MW to do one and get yourself home to DH, have a relaxing bath and snuggle up with your LO in bed (dh too if he wanted) and enjoy some lovely skin to skin to relax and help bf.

Get the MW to bring you a cup of tea everything's better with a cuppa!

Hope things improve for you

Hi, I really feel for you. I remember with horror the postnatal ward... No privacy, everyone interfering, the Bounty woman and the other one who wanted to take baby photos.. Aaagh! Horrible! Labour was a breeze in comparison....

If the paediatrician had given me the all clear I would be packing my bags as fast as possible. You will see a midwife at home, they'll come out to you. As long as your baby's nappies are wet / dirty, you should be fine. Plus you say you have other support with Breastfeeding.

Seriously, tell them you're leaving and get home to your husband. Get him to give you lots of TLC, and food! Once you start to feel better and more relaxed, feeding should become easier. It takes a while to learn how to breastfeed, both for you and your baby. I've had 3 babies, breastfed them all, (that's why I'm up now) and first time around I felt like I was still getting the hang of it 12 weeks later.

My last baby fed all night for the two nights we were on the postnatal ward, midwifes were telling me that that was abnormal..... But I knew better. You do know what to do, deep down. You will be fine. Good luck!

Pippa, you really want to go home, and if the Pediatritian says your baby is ok to go, then you can just discharge yourself and go, with a clear concience.

Don't take any notive of the midwives' gloom and doom. You obviously care very much for your little baby and when you're at home, help is a phone call away if you feel anyting is wrong. But really, babies are very robust, and since your's is healthy, she will be just as fine at home as she is in hospital, if not better, since her Mummy will be happier.

Would it help you to get some formula and a syringe to have in at home just in case? I ended up mixed feeding all 3 of mine at first (all were ebf by about 1 month though ), just so that they got a full little tummy and we could all rest and relax a little bit.

I think it was just that my norks were bigger than their heads, and they were too little to fit it all in! After a couple of week's growing and skin-to-skin they took to bf just fine, and we dropped the syringe.

Once you get home, and get some consistant advice, things will fall into place.

Oh dear....all that handling and conflicting info and advice in just two days :( :(

Sounds to me you would be far better off at home and when you can manage it, write to the hospital and tell them how the midwives made you feed :(

I didn't get the hang of BF at all until I got home and could relax with my boobs out in my own bed and some videos of latching on the internet. The midwives told me my latch was fine and my notes said baby was feeding well, but it was only when I got home and did my own research that I realised it was total crap!! His nose was squashed into the boob, his lips were tucked in etc. etc.

Also you will get much more sleep at home without everyone else's babies crying all the time and people poking their noses in to check on you.

Good luck

Hi everyone, just wanted to pop back and thank you all for the advice. After much negotiation I came home yesterday and felt instantly better for being at home! DH and DD are both more relaxed too so I definitely feel it was the right decision.

I continued to get totally different advice from all the midwives and my breasts got so battered from being pinched and grabbed by different people that on Wednesday night I gave up and asked them to give her a top up in a cup as I was so convinced she wasn't getting anything from me at all. We've continued giving her cup top ups at home and today we're going to essentially start again with breast feeding-my milk has come in and I've got a breastfeeding counsellor coming round. I hope I haven't buggered things up by giving her formula top ups-part of me feels like a failure and the other part feels very relieved that I KNOW for sure she is getting what she needs.

pippa hope things go well from now on :)

You don't need to fear you have messed things up - it is fine to start bf as if you were staring again, and the bfc will help you.

The over-handling and conflicting advice you got in the maternity unit has made the start of bf more difficult that it needed to be - and I hate the way women feel battered and prodded, and I bet babies don't like feeling it either :(

I think I'm giving up I feel so guilty, I should have listened and stayed in hospital. She can't latch on and noone can help. We've been giving her a few sucks (as many as she will do), as many mls of expressed milk as possible (usually about 5) and some formula at every feed and it's not sustainable. My breasts are agony from constantly trying to hand express, breast pump both doesn't work and is excruciating, and then she takes formula like a dream while I'm crying and desperately trying to give her something from me.

I feel like this isn't sustainable but if she won't latch on I just don't know what else to do. Noone can get her to do it, noone. I've spoken to so many people, I've spent ages watching videos-everyone says my position is fine and she's just not able to do it.

I'm giving up aren't I

Can some babies just not do it? Surely that's not possible? If she weren't in the western world with access to formula she'd die! I MUST be doing something wrong.

You poor thing. Okay, I had this problem when DD was born. She couldn't latch on at all. I was lucky enough to be in Oxford with an amazing bf clinic where I was told to express (double pump) for all feeds. I expressed about 6-8 times a day (and night) and practises latching on at the clinic/ bf cafe. After 5 weeks, DD wa able to latch on and feed.
You do need RL help, but in the meantime you don't have to give up if you don't want to. As long as you express each time she feed (even if it is a formula feed), you will be able to build supply. Good luck with whatever you decide, and congratulations.

Did your DH/DP feed her while you expressed? A feed takes about 1.5 hours and so does trying to hand express so that's what we're doing as if I do it all it's a never ending cycle as she feeds every 3 hours-ish. But once he's back at work he can't do this. I'm so miserable. I haven't expressed all day because I thought I'd made up my mind to formula feed and feel ok with it but I'm really not ok with it. It's been over 12 hours. I'm just so so sad. This is the most natural thing and I can't provide it for her.

Did a bf counsellor come and see you at home?

Will she not latch on at all, or does she latch but only suck for a few minutes?

Pippa, can a mca or bf counsellor come out to you from the hospital tonight or check back in (if thats what you want)? Me and ds struggled with bf and we went to see a bf counsellor nearly every day for weeks (dont worry we didn't need them for weeks, more of a confidence thing!).

BF-ing is a new skill for both mum and baby to learn. It may be natural but that doesn't make it easy. I hope you get some help soon x

Yep and couldn't get her to do it. She said position was fine and kept putting my nipple into DD's mouth but got nowhere. To be honest she was not very helpful. Said my areolas are v big and that may be the problem.

She sucks a few times and then stops-repeat ad infinitum when I put her back on each time. The thing is, on the one occasion she properly latched on it felt totally different, and is somehow unrepeatable, so even when she sucks I'm pretty sure she's getting nothing. No swallowing or anything.

pippa you've had a horrendous start and some of the things that you've been through - what people have said - are terrible :(

What does your BFC friend say?

Which organisation was the BFC from?

Has your dd been checked for tongue-tie at all? That seems to be missed quite often by midwives. Also don't know if you've been shown biological nurturing/laid back nursing positioning to get a latch?

Sorry pippa, x-post there.

Is your friend a peer supporter or a BFC (3 year diploma level)?

Have you called a bf line?

She's not really a friend, she's an NCT breast feeding counsellor. She is lovely but quite 'it's all natural and wonderful' without necessarily being very helpful.

I haven't called a helpline-that's a good idea. Am going to look them up now.

Biological nurturing looks good but my boobs are so big I couldn't find a way to make it work. Have mostly been trying rugby hold, which is fine in terms of comfort but doesn't seem to help her stay on.

Am so tired and sad and feel so sorry for myself and DD. Sorry for whining

Oh you do sound so sad and tired, and it's fine to stop bf and give formula of course, if that's what you want. But if you don't, it's possible to hire good 'industrial' breastpumps (and you should be double pumping, ie both breasts at the same time) and really your midwife should be able to get hold of one till you can hire one. One of the helplines will find you a contact. I must admit it was very hard work for me but I ended up bf ing DD for 20 months, so it did tuen out perfectly for us!
DH bottle fed the expressed milk while I expressed for the first week or so I think. Then I had to express while she slept, or if anyone was round to visit and was holding her, once he was back at work.