I don't know what to do

[LabMonkey]

I have written this to try to get the situation straight in my own head and have spent most of the last 2 weeks in tears about this situation so please be gentle.

My DD (2 weeks) is unable to latch on to my breast. A number of specialists at both the hospital and support groups have agreed that she just can't do it - it is physically impossible for her. When we left the hospital just under 2 weeks ago I was trying to give her exclusively expressed breast milk (EBM) although this requires me to express my milk every 3 hours regardless of whether or not that's when she wants to feed. So that's 8 slots of roughly 30-45 min per day sat on the sofa expressing milk plus feeding her, winding her, changing her and getting her back off to sleep (sometimes this can take 3-4 hours for her feed in the early hours of the morning as she's struggling to get back to sleep). After a week of doing this I went to a breastfeeding drop-in clinic where they suggested trying nipple shields to see if that would help her get milk straight from me. So now using the shields she can get her milk directly from the breast. For the last few days she's been really distressed after feeding and we've realised that she's not latching correctly onto the shield and this means that she's swallowing lots of air with my milk. Because she's swallowing so much it's going into her intestine and can't be burped out - hence the distress because a 2 week old doesn't understand the pain of trapped wind. We've been using "infacol" for a few days to try to combat this but it doesn't seem to help. She's obviously in a lot of pain every night and ends up getting overtired and can't get to sleep. I've been doing all of the night feeds (the calming down bit as obviously DH can't breastfeed!) as DH is back to work next week and as he works shifts I have to get used to doing this. I'm a wreck and can't stop crying as seeing her in pain is horrible - I know as parents we can't stop everything that might hurt DD but this we can do something about.

So now the decision:

1. To continue feeding with shields and watch her in distress every night
2. To give her EBM which will mean being tied to the house and the pump every 3 hours for the next 6 months
3. To give her formula

I'm terrified that I will go mad if I can't leave the house for more than 3 hours at a time for the next 6 months and I know that my mental health will suffer (I have had problems in the past).

I'm now at the point where I'm dreading her waking up to feed as it's super-painful for me (mastitis and her chewing on my nipples) and watching her in distress is the worst thing I've ever had to do. The pain for me I can cope with in a way but seeing her screaming is awful. The only other issue is that I have been getting headaches since I left the hospital and I can't take anything other than paracetamol. Today's headache I would normally have taken migraleve for but obviously can't as I'm feeding her directly resulting in my being out of action for the whole day.

I have always wanted to give her breastmilk as I have loads of allergies and I know that this milk is the best defence she has. I can't help feeling that by giving her formula I have failed as her mother to protect her in every way I can.

My mother is very pro-breastfeeding and her and my aunt have been sending me literature about it - I don't think they understand that I read everything I could lay my hands on pre-birth and that DD just can't do it in the traditional way.

So at 2 weeks old do I give up and give my beautiful daughter formula or do I tie myself to the pump for 6 months? I can't watch her scream in pain any more just so that I can say I'm breastfeeding.

Sorry that's very very long!

hi...
firstly congrats on your daughter!
I have a 2 week old too (are you on the ante natal group?).
I am not an expert and I am sure you will get lots of very good info here, but - just a thought - could you not give her a combination of EBM and formula?
That way you can leave the house too?
(I am unclear why you have to express every 3 hours but if needed you could take a manual pump out with you and use it out?)
I hope you get the advice you need, but also dont be so hard on yourself you have tried everything you can, but you all also need rest...

My DS wouldn't latch and I expressed for 4 months. It got a lot easier but it does still take time. At 2 months I was expressing 3 times a day and it was not too bad in terms of finding time as it became routine.

I would think about maybe a mixed strategy. Maybe keep trying to get the right latch but also express and feed so she is not getting as much wind? it sounds like you have access to breast feeding support which hopefully can suggest things.

I would really recommend a double electric pump and adapting a bra so you can walk about while expressing. It does look a bit alarming to other people but does work!

I'd also say that having formula in the house gave me peace of mind. We didn't need it but it meant that whatever happened, DS wouldn't go hungry. I managed to get ahead and store some breastmilk which was a godsend the day I undid the pump and dropped the fresh lot on the floor!

Getting literature in the post would send me a bit potty. I appreciate they are trying to help but they don't seem to understand do they!

Sympathies and good luck and just do what you can, nobody can ask for more.

Hello - just wanted to answer your thread, it sounds like you are going through a tough time at the moment, so hope I might be able to help a little.

The things you were saying about wind and distress after feeding sound to me like colic, my DD had this and it is really tough (on you!) but it does pass, I promise. Take a look at this thread for what helped me colic It is really classic for colic to start at 2 weeks, so switching to bottle feeding might not even improve the situation. It sounds like you are keen to continue with BF, so perhaps seeing this as colic rather than a problem due to your feeding method might be helpful to get you through the tough days?

So I would say have a look at the colic advice online, see if that rings true for you, and continue getting RL help with latching - if shields are helping you to be more comfortable feeding, and your DD is getting enough milk to have plenty of wet/dirty nappies and to start gaining weight then it sounds like they are worth persevering with. Hope that helps, and good luck!

OK, firstly ignore your mum and aunt!!

I managed to exclusively express for 3 months and am only stopping for my health. If your supply is good (which you won't know yet) you may not need to pump every 3 hours - I ended up in a routine of 4 times in 24 hrs and was expressing enough to put some in the freezer each day! You need to try and express when babe feeds to start with but once everything has settled it is possible to drop some sessions. It happened accidently for me as my son has reflux and I simply couldn't always pump as feeds would just merge into each other without me being able to put him down.

Also, remember that the more breastmilk you can give the better, but it is not the end of the world if you stop. Take each week, or even day at a time, do NOT think about the next 6 months or you'll give up in dispair before you get very far! 6 months seems like a lifetime away at the moment. The health benefits of breastmilk are greatest within the first 12 weeks, so I set that as a long term goal, but focussed on getting through each day or week as it came.

As someone said, have some formula in the house, if you get into the swing of things you'll probably find you get ahead of babe, but if that doesn't happen you need to be able to feed her.

Good luck xxx

Hi, sorry to hear your not having such a great time.

To me sounds like you have already made your mind up that you want to feed formula but you feel pressure from outside and guilt for doing so. You are the parent and need to decide what's best for you and your baby happy mum= happy baby. If you want to ff then do, it may be worth trying mixed feeding first, least then your dh can give some feeds and you can have a break. There is nothing wrong with formula I switched my ds when he was 15 weeks after mixed feeding since he was 6 weeks old- I hate the pressure that is put on mums to bf when they simply can't.

Good luck x

Thank you all for your replies. We gave DD formula last night and this morning and the difference is staggering. She managed to burp and there was no screaming in pain. I've now found the exclusively expressing thread on here so I'm trying to get tips so that I can express more effectively and see where we go from there. I think that stopping breastfeeding will be best for all of us - she gets really frustrated not latching properly and I don't want to continue to use the shields if it is causing her pain.

Labmonkey :( :( :(

I won't focus on the expressing difficulties, but maybe ask you to consider going back to square one.

It is very, very unusual for a baby to be physically unable to latch onto the breast without there being an obvious cause - and to have got this diagnosis so early on in your baby's life...:(

Some oral anomalies, mainly tongue tie, can make it difficult, but this can be corrected. I would think this has already been looked for, and your dd has been seen to have nothing like this. A few mothers have very unusual nipples/breasts that make things harder, but again, you would have said if this was the case.

I wonder if what you have been told is a 'physical impossibility' is not this at all. Instead, something has gone awry in the first days to make it harder for her to latch, perhaps a birth event (a lot of pain relief; long tiring labour), separation after birth, and most common of all, sadly, too much enthusiastic handing and pushing to try to 'make' her take the breast.

All that can be corrected and overcome....do you think any of this might apply?

Has she been checked for tongue tie - this causes difficultly latching. Please don't feel bad about formula. I expressed etc as you have every 3 hrs for three weeks, that and a missed tongue tie and those weeks were some of the worst of my life when I should have been enjoying my baby. I gave formula at 3 weeks and wish it had been possible to breast feed but it isn't for everyone and we haven't looked back. Mixed feeding sounds very sensible.

You poor thing :(

You know, I think you should forget about this "not leaving the house for more than 3 hours for the next 6 months" thing. Worry about today, maybe give tomorrow a fleeting thought. But worrying about things that are months away is the road to unnecessary misery as far as babies go.
You need to be honest with yourself. You seem to be clued up on things. As others have pointed out, it isn't an all-or-nothing situation.

How about you talk to a counsellor about this? Have a peep on the NCT website - they have a breastfeeding helpline which is manned by trained people who are used to helping people in your situation. And they won't pressurise you like your mum has. They'll just help you come to your own decision.

Sorry, had to answer phone and cross-posted with you and tiktok. Listen to tiktok :)

Sorry I don't have anything useful to add about how to make this work. But I think you may be overestimating the magnitude of the decision. The three options you describe are not exclusive.

You could continue to try feeding at the breast at times when it is most likely to be successful for you both (if evenings are hard for you both maybe long snuggly early mornings in bed together could work?). You could offer formula or EBM at other times. And you can express for now to maintain your supply and see how things go. Expressing does not have to mean being tied to the pump for the next six months, you only have to think about the next feed.

I also think if you could talk to someone on one of the helplines it might help. If giving formula is right for you and your baby then it is not something to feel guilty about. But those feelings of guilt and failure can be very poisonous and talking about them with someone sensible now may help you make positive choices rather than feeling you've floundered and become a substandard parent.

Also Migraleve is not contra-indicated whilst breastfeeding. Very few meds are. If you are getting headaches you need decent pain relief. If your GP is over cautious about prescribing try e-mailing http://www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/drugs-in-breastmilk.htmlthe Breastfeeding Network Drugs in Milk helpline for info on what the possible risks of taking stronger painkillers are.

oops the Breastfeeding Network Drugs in Milk helpline

Just wanted to say that I absolutely feel for you, I was in a similar situation for a while and I know how distressing, demoralising, confusing and exhausting it can be. So big hug and letting you know that you're not the only one to have gone through this, so don't be too hard on yourself. In my case I think it was a case of delayed feeding after an EMCS, over enthusiastic shoving her poor wee head at my boob handling by the midwives, sleepy and mucousy baby, formula top ups and tongue tie. However, I managed to go on and mix feed (mostly formula) for about 7 months, even though it took her weeks before her TT was fixed and she was latching efficiently.

Only you will know in your heart what you really want to do long term, but maybe you could have a think about mixed feeding as it doesn't need to be all or nothing. Your baby will still get antibodies.

Wishing you all the best

Poor you :(

Do you know why she can't latch - why it's physically not possible for her?

Oh poor you

Please try listen and work with tiktok, she is really knowledgeable.

My DS now 2.5yrs didn't latch on either even after much help (although I think the right advice wasn't given to me at the time, even though everybody was well meaning). He was jaundiced, and really didn't like being at the breast.

I exclusively expressed for 11 months till i went back to work. It was hard work at the time, but after the initial few weeks I was only expressing every 4/5hours and after about 3 months didn't express at night anymore. By 6 months, only twice a day. I always got more than enough milk.

If it's the path you want to take, remember it's hard at the beginning, but it gets much easier after the first couple of months. I really didn't mind it after the first couple of months.

Thank you a for your advice. We had a dramatic birth ending in an EMCS followed by skin to skin in recovery which involved a nurse repeatedly shoving her onto my breast (apparently she is being "retrained" as this happened to others too). DD may have a posterior tongue tie but they won't do anything about it here so we've got a doc appointment this week to beg for a referral to a specialist in another area. We've decided to express and use formula for the next few weeks and take it from there.

I'm feeling a lot calmer about it now and apart from when we gave her formula at 3am this is the first day since she was born that I haven't spent parts of the day in tears.

LabMonkey breast is lovely but formula works. Your birth sounds traumatic and beating yourself up is unhelpful- you need to heal and rest and baby needs to feed happily. You gave it all you could. You can still be close and have lovely cuddles, and baby can still have your milk too.
Relax and rest- breast is good, but no tears and a bit of formula is good too.

labmonkey I don't know where you are but I very highly recommend Ann Dobson who will snip tongue ties and she travels all over. She's based in London but she snipped my son's in Yorkshire. She is also a very highly skilled IBCLC (the highest training you can get in breastfeeding) and will work with you to get your daughter back to the breast. www.ann-dobson.co.uk/ She's so gentle and lovely, and is excellent with babies who have had a hard time with an "over enthusiastic" midwife. V glad to hear that the MW is being retrained...

Even if she can't get to you she will recommend someone who can. In my experience it's a waste of time fighting the NHS if they don't snip in your area. In my area they do and they still took 5 months to get me an appointment!

Time is of the essence as you need to ensure your milk supply doesn't dip so I really do highly recommend you give her a call tomorrow. She's brilliant :)

Push to get the TT snipped, If a baby doesn't have a physical issue (cleft palate for example can make latching impossible) then all babies can physically latch - whether they will or will work out how to do it well is another issue and forcing them onto the breast won't help breast refusal (which is a different problem to inability to latch!).

Don't worry about 6months. So much changes in that time you won't be able to comprehend it now. But don'#t think that whatever you are doing today is what you will be doing in 6 months time. If nothing else, feeding an older baby is so much easier!

My DD didn't bf at all until 4 days old and was on bottles then top-ups. But we managed to get to ebf by around 6 weeks and she's now 5 1/2 months and we're not stopping anytime soon!

If you haven't got a double pump though, get one, I borrowed an Ameda LActaline and it transformed my pumping experience.

I have had a difficult time too: a difficult birth (with a large blood loss which can affect supply and some healing issues), reflux, a TT, a baby that was shoved onto the breast and then wouldn't latch for nearly three weeks, severe pain for the next 6 weeks. My milk also never really came in and I have had depression in the past so need to be careful that I didn't get PND.

I have tried extremely hard to EBF (which I desperately wanted to do): lactation consultants, ringing helplines, asking every midwife, hospital grade pump, Domperidone and herbs and on and on and sadly can only get to about 50-60 % of what he needs (and he goes on and off from day to day whether he will even go on the breast at all!)....

... however my DS is 12 weeks this week and you need to know that you will come out of the other side of this and it doesn't have to be all or nothing and you do need to protect your sanity right now. As someone else says just take it day by day don't think in terms of 6 months.

I have ended up going with: an attempt at BF, then an expressed top-up, then a formula top-up (if needed in that order) but I often have to miss a pump (if I have had a trip out, an appointment or just a sleep) and I end up doing between 3 to 5 short sessions a day. It is ok if he just has a formula feed too (and it means my DH can do a feed if I am not around etc.) so you might consider that you can try different methods and don't have to slavishly stick to one (and your and your baby's needs will change even day by day).

I would recommend a hospital grade pump (I rent a Symphony from Medela) if you can afford to rent one as I couldn't express at all with any other and only need to spend 10 minutes pumping. I also used Breastflow bottles which (I think) have helped going between breast and bottle.

Take very good care of yourself and things will get better.

labmonkey, glad you are feeling a bit better about this - you have been poorly cared for and it would do no harm at all to write to the maternity unit about this.

TT can be snipped; babies can get over traumatic over-handling by midwives. Labelling a baby as 'physically unable to breastfeed' which is what you were told is disgraceful, IMO.

Hiya, I'm really sorry about what your going througg, my baby wouldn't latch on for 3 days and it was awful so 2 weeks must be hell. I had to use a nipple shield for 5 weeks. I don't know if its the same situation but I found the experts were quick to blame any and all problems on the nipple shield (such as slow weight gain in first week which was actually more due to be not expressing enough in first few days). It made me feel awful as it was the only way I could feed and was made to feel as if this wasn't good enough. Kept going and DS started putting lots of weight on.

Perhaps with infacol the colick will pass (DS had colick). One day he just went without the shield when I never thought he would so made it all worth it?

But there's always a chance the experts could be right. I'd say maybe combination feed. Express, formula and even a feed with the shield so baby gets the jaw benefit?

You have tried so hard and if you are now feeling as if formula is the best option for you its what you need to good. 2 weeks breast milk is still better than none.

Hope it all goes well a big congratulations! Xxx