How do you make up your bottles for baby???

[justbeingmummy]

Hi,
I know the 'correct' way is to make one as needed and boil the water, wait 30 mins add milk and cool for baby but how many of us actually do this?

With my DS 4 yrs ago I used to boil the water, fill about 4 bottles and leave them until needed and add the milk then. I know this is totally wrong and if I ask a midwife/health visitor they will stick to the guidelines so cant ask, but really cant imagine my DS being happy to scream for 30 mins while I make a fresh bottle from scratch??

kviddy I make it up to the amount in the bottle that is there if you make it up as they recommend.

Moonface The recommendations don't make life easy, especially not with a screaming baby. I'm happy with the compromise I make. If it hasn't been TESTED to see if it kills enough bacteria that doesn't mean it DOESN'T.

cobweb Hot flask at about 75 degrees when you put it in. Cold water in a flask. 2 bottles in the bag with powder in and know what the milk level needs to be when filled.

good for you theskiinggardner. I'm just passing on what i have been told so others can also make up feeds in a way they are happy with.

as my DD is now 3, do the actual milk tub instructions say only make one at a time? When DD was born i used cow and gate and the instructions said you could pre-prepare - it was just the midwives who said no which is why i didn't follow it much as it sounded like scarmongering especially as 18 months earlier and for years earlier you could make in advance without problem - if i have another i will continue to pre-prepare with cow and gate as my 2 DD were fine on it!

DialsMavis - if you think your relationship can stand one more attempt at talking to her about it, you need to explain to her that the water needs to be around 70% to kill the bacteria in the powder (a lot of people think it's something to do with bacteria in the water - it's not).

Kviddy - all you have to do is use the right amount of water OR pay attention to the 'made up' volume & it's fine.

Cobweb - either make them up and keep them cool or make them up on the run, there aren't many places you can't get a cup of boiled water and either take or buy bottled water (Evian is safe to make up bottles with - low sodium).

Moonface - all you are doing is killing the bacterian in the powder, as long as the ratio of water to powder is sufficent to then it's going to be fine isn't it - I go for about 70% hot and 30% cold but it depends on the level of screaming and how much cold water is available (to stand the bottle in). Considering how few babies are affected by bacteria in formula when a LOT of bottles are still being made incorrectly, I don't think using 20% cold water after the formula has been mixed with hot water is a risk.

kitkat - yes, the tubs now say to make each feed fresh. Obviously it is safest to make each feed fresh, but you can make them in advance so long as you use very hot water.

kitkat - some babies have died due to bacteria in the formula, this can be killed by mixing it with water at 70 deg It's not recommended to use water hotter than that as it can kill the nutrients in the formula.

Of course it's up to you what you choose to do - we all risk assess all the time.

Dials - sorry, that was meant to be 70 Deg not 70%

I have tried to explain that but a lot of her friends do it with cold water and she thinks I am just hygiene obsessed (ha- I found Iodine in belly button from C-section 5 months ago today-so hardly!).

Her baby is 8 months now, is it still just as dangerous when they are big?

The reason I asked this is because I have been using boiled water that has been made up and then add the formula as needed, I too always thought it was the water that had the bacteria not the milk and used this method for my DS1.
I read yesterday about the bacteria being in the milk cartons and the 70 degree rule and it has totally freaked me out as no one told me this before but I know making them as we go with a screaming baby on my hip is going to be impossible so im looking for the best compromise for my baby and my sanity.

Not sure what to do now and cant ask mw or hv cos they will go by guidelines

The Dept health guidlines say that making in advance with water 70 degree or over is acceptable but not best practice (IYSWIM) Doing a couple of bottles at a time seems a good compromise www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/formulaguidance.pdf

I like the dress in Teal, but will have to see if it is in store as they only have 16 online (probably am a top shop 16 at the moment though). But weight is finally starting to shift more quickly now so will have to try on. Thanks

wrong thread clearly!

Dials - yes, the last baby I heard of that died from it was about that age I think. I guess it's like all things, it would affect the vulnerable more, so a newborn would be affected by it more than a strapping, healthy 6ft bloke - an 8 month old baby would be more robust than a newborn, but less than the man...

It's not a huge risk tbh or we'd hear about it more frequently, but it's one of those things that, for me, knowing about it means I need to do something about it. I couldn't live with myself if a baby in my care died from it simply because I'd chosen not to make the bottle up in a safe way. Other people make different choices or don't feel so strongly about it.

Justbeingmummy - what don't you like about the 70/30 method? If you do it and stand it in cold water it's the right temp in no time. I prefer to do it a bottle at a time so you aren't reheating it as it's usually pretty predictable when the baby will want a bottle, so you can put the kettle on a bit earlier, but if not you just have to do your best.

I go with the theory that the most danger is in the formula not being mixed with 70 deg water rather than whether it's reheated or not etc. and as long as there is a good amount of water to formula then adding a bit of cold water is fine....

To be honest Ive not heard of the the 70/30 method before I started this thread but it does seem like the best compromise but as a couple of people have said how do you know you are putting the right amount of water in if you have already added the powder half way through and ive read a few times that you shouldnt add water to powder only powder to water so does this count as doing it wrong?? Another thing, the bottle that you keep the cooled boiled water in, how do you keep that sterile?

Its so stressful because I keep reading conflicting things for all arguments, Im not sure what to do for the best for my baby and know I should make the up exactly as stated on the carton and by hv/mw recommendation but dont see how it will be physically possible and would hate for my son to scream and scream for half an hour while I made a bottle as he is still so young he is in no routine so cant pre-empt when he will want a bottle. But also think as a responsible mother I should do the best by him no matter what and feel guilty for trying to find 'shortcuts'. I also have a general anxiety disorder and OCD so cant brush it off as easily as others perhaps can as it eats away at me!

Dont know why I read things to be honest cos I only make my life harder for myself!! Just cant believe Ive NEVER been told about the dangers of bacteria in formula before I read it on Mumsnet yesterday.

can you afford to use ready made cartons for a while? or at least for the most unpredictable times of the day/night. They are totally sterile; unlike powder. You can also keep partial cartons in the fridge for 24 hours once opened

justbeing - you measure the hot water as you put it in the bottle, mix the powder into it, then you measure the second lot of water before adding it OR you know where the bottle ends up when it's made the other way and top it up to that. Slightly less accurate but 5ml here or there isn't going to hurt anyone :)

You aren't adding water to powder you are adding powder to water - then when it's mixed up you are adding more water. There are two main reasons for not adding water to powder - one is that it clumps more if you do it that way and secondly because they think people wouldn't add the right amount of water (ie they'd fill it up to 150ml rather than putting in 150ml of water).

The bottle of water - it can be a spare baby bottle, which you'd just sterilise the same as any other bottle. Sterilising is a whole other thread :)
However, in short, if a bottle is washed and rinsed properly you don't need to sterilise it, washing in a dishwasher is OK as well. The main thing is to make sure all of the milk has been washed off. Sterilising is really a safety step for people who can't/wont take enough care when washing bottles - it's a 'feel good' factor.

Honestly, relax my love. Babies are pretty hardy and it's actually quite difficult to break one x Just keep asking what you need to know and keep muddling along like everyone else.

I don't think you are trying to take short cuts to just make your life easier - you are trying to cut down the 'wait' time for your DS. However, if you hang around here long enough, we'll be able to convince you that you can indeed make shortcuts to make your life easier and still be a great Mum!!

I don't know why the bacteria in formula issue isn't better known - I guess it's because if the pro breastfeeding people say it they get accused of being anti formula, the formula companies aren't going to do more than they legally have to (small print at best) and other people just forget it's something other people don't know or you hate to feel like you are criticising... if I see people make up a bottle with cold water I tend to assume they know that it's not a good idea but have chosen to take the risk therefore I don't say anything, because although it wouldn't be, I would worry they would take it as a criticism of their parenting.... it's tricky.

HV & MW's are very variable in their quality and some spout utter shit. If you are unsure about anything - ask the collective wisdom of MN :)

Are the ready-made cartons still sterile once they have been opened if you leave them in the fridge? I dont understand how they can make the ready made cartons sterile and not the powder surely that would make life easier for everyone!?
I kust think its hard enough being a new mummy without all the worries that go with it but I suppose its something you have to get used to because it doesnt get any easier when they get older! lol x

I don't know why the powder isn't sterile either - but I'm no scientist!

Yes it says on the carton how long they are OK for once open. They are only a one bottle carton anyway, so it's largely irrelevant how long they keep for. Once the baby has sucked from the bottle it's no longer sterile and needs to be treat as a 'used' bottle. I'm not sure what the current guidelines are but I don't keep a 'used' bottle for anymore than an hour.

apparently it's easier to pasturise liquids than powders. Also a tin of powder lasts longer than a carton so would have more chance to get contaminated, even if it had been sterile when you opened it. But some countries have sachets of powder so that would get round that.

Agree that you can only pasteurise liquids, not powder (pasteurisation) and also once a tin of powder is opened 1) water vapour gets in so even if it were completely dry before the damp can encourage bacterial growth and 2) if you sneeze, don't wash your hands properly, have bacteria floating around the kitchen as we all do then every time you open the tin of formula they get in and it becomes progressively more contaminated with just general nasties. The combination of milk and slight damp is an ideal breeding ground.

The bacteria thing isn't well known in the UK because I don't think any babies have actually died in incidents which have been specifically related to contaminated powder, unlike in France and Belgium.

It's a small probability but it can and does happen and the consequences are terrible even if a baby doesn't die. I know a family from church whose baby had an e. sakazakii infection, was very sick and has long-term damage from it, although they don't know to exactly what extent yet.... Very few babies make a complete recovery from that kind of infection.

I think there is a bit too much obsession with stuff being sterile etc...
Yes there are risks associated with a lot of things but I really do think some of us go over the top with bacteriophobia.
Checked with doctor friend re 70c water on formula. He said indeed this would work but for the nasties to be eliminated, the mix should remain at this temp for some time (about 20 mins I think he said). If this is the case, then the idea of using hot water and the flash cooling the bottles would not eliminate the salmonella risk.
You can't eliminate all the risks all the time.

so what would your doctor friend suggest instead? That it be recommended that bottles are made up in an even riskier way instead. As said up thread 70 is a compromise so as not to destroy all the nutrients. There are risks in everything but we generally try to minimise them, especialy when acting on the behalf of others, eg babies.
The guidelines have been produced by people who have actually tested what bacteria are present under different conditions, rather than just hypothesising. If you think the guidelines are too much you don't have to follow them.

He did not suggest anything. He just thought I was worrying about not much really. He added that the likelihood was pretty low and the risk of spreading bacteria is not only via bottles but also via many more stuff that we don't worry about quite so much and maybe should.
Agree totally with your point on risk reduction, I am not recommending recklessness!

Chippingin, we must of x-posted last night cos I only just read your first post, thankyou for the advice you are so right and I really want to relax but it doesnt seem to be in my genetic make up :) Im currently undergoing CBT to try and help with my anxiety and OCD it doesnt seem to be working too well yet!! How right you are about the hv/mw's ive been told completely opposing things by each one.

Can I just ask, with the 70/30 method do you boil the kettle and put the 70% in pretty much straight away, cos doesnt that kill the nutrients? Can you keep the bottled of cooled boiled water in the fridge or not, and also I know everyone says to use ready-made cartons for when out but my DS is on comfort milk because of colic and they dont make it in the ready-made cartons???

To many questions and worries lol. I know im doing my best but I just feel guilty and responsible about everything (not just child related) also another genetic make-up thing. This is my 2nd DS believe it or not, you would of thought id of chilled out by now :)

Also how did I not know about the whole steralising thing??? Isaw a thread yesterday about people just washing bottles or shoving them in the dishwasher and thought they were crazy!!