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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

I thought breastfeeding was supposed to get easier not harder!

31 replies

BudapestMummy · 10/04/2011 17:05

DD (11 weeks and EBF) and I seem to be going rapidly downhill with breastfeeding. We have the following problems:

she STILL struggles to latch on and hangs on for dear life when she's on the breast, clicking away and often coming off and her latch seems to have got worse rather than better - my nipple frequently goes white and numb during feeds (although not that painful)
she hardly ever demands to be fed, and if I offer her the breast if she hasn't fed for three hours then she frequently screams blue murder and then will eventually take a little bit when she's exhausted herself with the screaming
when she does feed, feeds are taking longer than when she was a newborn - often up to 50 mins and she hardly seems to be taking anything in - I'm convinced she can't possibly be getting enough milk
milk supply seems to be going down and she can be sucking for minutes on end with hardly any swallowing
she's sick ALL the time during and after feeds but GP won't prescribe anything as the sick doesn't bother her and she's gaining weight (although weight gain has slowed right down)

However, she's sleeping for a good 6 hour stretch at night and is generally perfectly content.

I'm really loath to switch to formula but wondered if anyone had any advice to keep me going. I'm not loving BF at the moment at all...

OP posts:

Cosmosis · 10/04/2011 17:08

Have you been checked for Tongue Tie? Clicking is often symptom of tt, as are taking a long time to feed and bad latch/sore nipples.

Original poster

BudapestMummy · 10/04/2011 17:24

Yes we have been and apparently she's fine.

OP posts:

tiktok · 10/04/2011 17:36

Budapest, sorry it's still a struggle :(

Is your dd growing and thriving?

If so, then there is nothing majorly wrong physically. It certainly cannot be the case that she is 'hardly taking anything in'.

However, I agree the whole performance should be easier and more enjoyable.

There's nothing in your post to suggest that formula would make life better, though.

Have you had a chance to discuss this in RL with a breastfeeding counsellor or someone similar?

cobweb1979 · 10/04/2011 18:56

Have you tried expressing? Not ideal (I'm exclusively expressing and it is exhausting) but giving one EBM bottle a day might ease your worries that she is getting enough. But if she is putting on weight then she presumably is. I've read that doing some pumping in between feeds can increase your supply if that really is the issue.

On the being sick - is it a lot - ie seemingly the whole feed or is she just possiting? (not sure that is how you spell it). If it is a lot then you could try infant gaviscon, though as you are BFing you'll have to get it in via syringe, which might be fun! It thickens in their tummy and helps them keep it down. Has helped with our little one. He still brings up milk to his mouth and possitis a bit but the whole feed being vomited out has reduced significantly.

ewille · 10/04/2011 19:37

Hi,
I'm so sorry that you are having trouble. It sounds like you are doing really well to persevere and if your LO is putting on weight then she is getting enough. If you are worried then take her every week to a weigh in clinic and ask advice from the HV.
I also recommend speaking accessing your local breastfeeding support group as there are specially trained people who can help you with your latch. I also suggest getting a second check re tongue tie - it is easy to miss when they are little and if it isn't that bad it can be difficult to spot.

You could try pumping to increase your supply. I would suggest that you express and see how much you are producing anyway as you may be surprised at how much comes out after 10 minutes. Some babies stay at the breast longer than they need to to feed because they get comfort from sucking and like the odd snack. An experienced breastfeeding support person (preferably someone who has breastfed themselves) will be able to give you some good support and observe you feed and generally give you peace of mind.
Good luck. And well done for getting this far. xx

Original poster

BudapestMummy · 10/04/2011 20:09

Thanks for the replies. Hopefully I'm going to see a breastfeeding counsellor this week to see if she can improve the latch. Is there any hope after 11 weeks though or are we likely to be too stuck in our ways?!

I express from one breast after the long stretch at night because DD only feeds from one breast first thing (otherwise she is always sick) and can generally get around 3 to 4 oz, sometimes a bit more. Is that OK? At other times of day it is generally a lot less.

OP posts:

NotQuiteCockney · 10/04/2011 20:15

That is a fair bit to get by expressing.

And of course, your DD, despite her troubles, is a lot better at getting milk out of the breast than any pump.

Seeing someone in person sounds like a good idea. If you can find a way to get her latched better, she will get more milk for less work, and she'll work out that's the best way forward ...

TruthSweet · 10/04/2011 20:26

Budapest - when your DD was checked for TT was her palate also checked out? Clicking whilst feeding can be indicative of a high arched palate or a bubble palate. It can also make feeding a bit slower if they are unlatching and re-latching during a feed.

Nipple blanching aka vasospasm (whitening of the nipple during a feed) can be due to the nipple being compressed against the hard part of the palate at the front/middle of the mouth rather than the soft palate at the rear of the mouth. Jack Newman has written some articles on it here and here.

There is definitely hope to change the way a baby latches and 3-4oz sounds like tons of milk to me (don't forget though a pump is no substitute for baby and what you get is not an indication of what baby gets just the amount of milk you are able to express then and there).

ewille · 10/04/2011 21:22

Just had a thought - Ina May Gaskin's guide to breastfeeding might make you feel a bit better and give you some more information. She's an American Midwife who comes from a community that believe in natural birth and breastfeeding. She doesn't approach breastfeeding from a medical perspective and I found parts of it very useful. Its a bit "tree hugging hippee" but so am I sometimes.

Original poster

BudapestMummy · 10/04/2011 21:44

TruthSweet - no her palate hasn't been checked as far as I am aware. Is there anything that can be done about a high arched palate or a bubble palate though? I would assume not. (What is a bubble palate by the way?)

Thanks again everyone.

OP posts:

FunnysInTheGarden · 10/04/2011 21:46

at the risk of being shouted down, give her formula if you need to. Don't feel guilty about it.

MigGril · 10/04/2011 22:36

Is she being sick a lot? ie just a little bit after every feed or enough to soak a whole muslen square.

DD was what the doctor call a happy sicker, she would throw up whole feeds but fed so much she still gained weight fine. Weight gain does slow as they get older and they can drop down centiles as long as it's not more then two it's not generaly a problem. Sickness is offen refulx but does get better as they get older. Other things to consider are milk protein intolerance (cows milk that is) in which case chaning to formula would just make things worse not better.

Getting you latch check is the best advice really, and there is hope you can impreve things even at this age.

tiktok · 10/04/2011 23:31

Budapest, nothing in your posts suggests there is anything is majorly wrong. She is thriving and gaining weight - a slow down in weight gain is perfectly normal. She is content. She sleeps well.

Feeds of up to 50 mins are not abnormal. Sick, even lots of it, is not abnormal.

What is a struggle for you is the latch - and that can be fixed, even at 11 weeks.

You seem worried about breastmilk production and your dd's intake. Neither seem issues to me, from what you say.

confuddledDOTcom · 10/04/2011 23:43

Is her weight gain being charted on a breastfeeding chart? My eldest was charted in the red book by HV who was panicking and on a breastfeeding (and gestational) chart by the paediatrician who had her bang on the centre line!

Someone once told me if you look at your baby and without thinking about the feeding do you think there's anything wrong with them? If the answers no then don't worry.

Don't worry about the 50 minute feeds either, I've done three days at 45 minutes on and 15 minutes off! During that time someone would hold her so I could go to the toilet or shower etc whilst she cried for me to come back!

tiktok · 10/04/2011 23:50

confuddled - no one is worried about Budapest's baby's weight :)

Cosmosis · 11/04/2011 08:49

From the sounds of it you have no issue at all with production, that's a really good amount to express and the baby will be much better at getting the milk out than a pump.

Like tiktok said, I think the latch needs sorting, but a bf counsellor, or a visit to a bf group/cafe if you have one near you may be able to help on that front. Good luck :)

confuddledDOTcom · 11/04/2011 09:01

I only said that as she said the weight gain had slowed down, I'm wondering if that's from dropping on charts or not gaining the same amount each week.

I must say I'm really jealous about the expressing! I had two babies in NNU and I was never able to keep them from formula until after they were fully on the breast because I couldn't pump enough, that kind of yield would have had them going for a good portion of the day!

tiktok · 11/04/2011 09:23

confuddled - all weight charts, even the 'old' ones, show a slowing down of weight gain after the immediate newborn period.

PussinJimmyChoos · 11/04/2011 09:28

Tiktok sorry to hijack but would really appreciate your b'feeding expertise on my thread here if you wouldn't mind

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1191318-Struggling-with-10-day-growth-spurt-help?msgid=24811263#24811263

confuddledDOTcom · 11/04/2011 11:32

I know but they don't reflect it as well which is why we found the paediatrician was less concerned than the HV. He had her bang on line whereas she was going lower off the bottom by the HV's measurements.

TittyBojangles · 11/04/2011 11:38

I may be wrong but I think the red book growth charts are now all based on bf babies so those problems you used to get with comparing bf babies to the growth of ff babies isn't so much of a problem iyswim.

AvengingAngel · 11/04/2011 11:52

Sound similar symptoms to my DS. My problem was over supply. It got much easier though after 12 weeks. Everything calmed down and am still EBF (16 weeks).

AvengingAngel · 11/04/2011 11:54

Also have you checked for thrush?

TruthSweet · 11/04/2011 12:50

Bubble palate is a 'dip' in the hard palate - as the baby feeds the clicking sounds produced is from the break in suction (at least it was for my 3 girls) and the clicking sound/problem with latching was grown out of at around 5-6 months (they were all light babies for various reasons so they would have been 5-7kg). I just had to pay extra attention to getting a deep latch (some times very difficult though!).

High arched palate latching difficulties are often grown out of too again with extra care when latching.

Like Tiktok says it does sound like your daughter is doing well it's just her latch that needs looking at (and possibly her mouth just to rule out TT/high arched palate/bubble palate for peace of mind) and that's best done in person so a real life visit with a BFC as you have already arranged is you best bet.

Dreemagurl · 11/04/2011 17:30

I would also advise getting rechecked for Tongue tie. It took over 4 months to get DD diagnosed with anterior tongue tie (which is harder to pick up) and consequently although now snipped, we still have latching problems due to bad habits. I managed to see an infant feeding specialist who diagnosed the tt but it took a lot of phonecalls and persistence on my part ( after midwives, bf counsellors and GPs all swore she didn't have tt). Not saying that that's definitely the problem with your DD but definitely worth a second opinion. Good luck and hope it gets sorted for you :)

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