Would you complain about a poor birth/breast-feeding support experience in hospital. Any if not, why not?

[MummyBerryJuice]

In order not to hijack another poster's thread I've started this one following on from what AngryGnome revealed about her birth and breastfeeding experience in hospital.

I personally have no complaints about my experience but stories like hers really PISS me off. I hate the way caring, responsible grown women are made to feel like neglectful, irresponsible little girls by hcps who are supposed to support them, , especially when it clew to breasfeeding support.

Please come and share your stories, whether you complained and what type of response you received.

I feel passionately about enabling women and perhaps something can grow out of this!

I should add to my massive post that one of nurses on the ward was lovely and sneaked me up cups of tea and snacks. My community midwife also came to see me as did the infant feeding midwife, but unfortunately neither realised he had TT (the infant feeding midwife visited when he'd just had a tube feed and was asleep so never saw him latch). The main problem was the way I was treated the first night. Once I agreed to bottle feed and use formula top ups the attitude was much better.

My community midwife did say something about not all of us being able to be earth mothers and it didn't matter if I didn't BF mind - this was about day 2 IIRC on a home visit.

Thank you all for sharing. And please don't apologise for your recounting being long. There is so much to get across that it can't be done in only one sentence. The wonder if there is a MN campaign in this?

What do you think?

Wll Your story highlights that is isn't only the mws and hvs that need educating (and perhaps proper training)

Thank you for sharing and well done for complaining. Have you thought about copying and pasting what you wrote here and sending it as a letter to the head of children's services and head of midwifery and PALS too?

So many awful stories.

I'd like to think that things will improve as more hospitals go for Baby Friendly status. (is that too optimistic?)

I did complain via PALS about the manner of my HV. She was extremely rude and her behaviour was unacceptable (and this took place in front of lots of other women at a weigh in clinic).

We had a follow up from her manager and I have since changed HV. There's no excuse for poor interpersonal skills (especially when the nature of their job demands it)- and things will only change if people complain.

Good on you CrikeyBadger and Wholelottalove

Just really really horrendous!

Looking back I think for many it is an awful power relationship. Deptford wife that is shocking about how they offered to refer you for mental care. When I expressed utter surprise that my baby was taken and fed formula, I noticed they wrote in my notes that I was "somewhat disoriented and was worried that my baby was not getting enough milk", I only know this because they left the notes on my bed by mistake.

And MummyBerryJuice yes I wish the HV would have remembered she was a guest as she got herself ever so comfy on our sofa and tried to make us out as freaks. Ofcourse she was not to know that my mother was far to sick to travel, that we were not that keen on subjecting a young baby to a long plane journey to the other side of the world. That some of our other family had no money, because they had recently suffered redundancies. That the side of the family that were rich enough to travel were not the nicest people in the world.
Instead she just made us feel like we didn't have anyone and any family and that we were somehow weird.

TikTok I won't complain until I have finished having children because I am stuck with one hospital and I fear they would be difficult the next time around, also I suppose I think it is positive that you do not have to pay on the NHS and although I'm not from the UK and have been here for years and paid my taxes I still feel that I should not put down an organisation that has generally been good, especially as I have settled here from another country.

My hospital has stage 1 accreditation, interestingly. Having checked the Baby Friendly website, there is a hospital within travelling distance that has full accreditation. If I have another baby, will see if I can maybe go there (altho my last labour was very fast, so the distance might make it impossible...)

I had an interesting chat with my HV a few days ago and I told her what I thought of my experience in our Baby Friendly hospital. She was really interested, said she heard too many similar stories and she was going to raise in a meeting the HVs were having with the hospital IFC the following week. I hope she did, and I hope it was taken seriously.

You see another of my worries about complaining was that I wanted to train as an NHS peer supporter and didn't want to blacklist myself with the very people who recruit volunteers. But now I am going to do independent training with one of he b/f charities and I'm thinking that's probably a good thing. Firstly I will feel free to complain, and may do so after this thread. Secondly, if women have had a bad experience in hospital then I wonder if they see the NHS peer supporters as another part of a very flawed support system. Perhaps they will welcome viewpoints from someone more independent - I think perhaps I would have done. I dunno, just random thoughts.

I'm wondering if I can set up an anonymous online survey thingy that MNetter's can complete (with the option of beingacted if they are willing) and thereby have a 'safe' place for complaints.

Hmm...

Will think about it.

This is a great thread. I'm just wondering if all these hospitals are Unicef baby friendly.

My experience on the post-natal ward after giving birth was ok. DD was latching and had a few feeds by the time I was discharged. The midwife discharging me asked me if I wanted her to watch a feed before I went home and I said no. Stupid mistake. Within 24 hours I was cracked and in pain. The community midwives were ok. I told them my problems, they watched DD latch on, then said her latch looked fine. So I just carried on feeding, pushing through the pain.

Day 9 (it was friday 13th!) DD had lost 13% of her birthweight so we were re-admitted to the same post-natal ward. When the doctor suggested we may need to top up with formula I said not until DD is weighed again on monday. He said fine (was very nice about it) and left us keeping a written record of feeding over the weekend. Again, many midwives watched DD latch and said it looked fine. I was still in pain. We were kept in day after day because DD's weight had not changed, or she had lost 5g. Then the comments from the MWs started. "you don't have enough milk", "some women just can't bf", "you're putting het to the breast too often", "how can you feed her when you can only hand express 5ml at a time". Eventually I gave in and started cup feeding DD some formula after some breastfeeds. One night I just had a breakdown. I started to believe all these things they were saying. That night my DH got a phonecall from me at about 2am saying I couldn't do it anymore, I was starving my baby, and I was just going to walk away and leave her at the hospital. I'm in tears just writing this. The next day a doctor came to take some bloods and I broke down again telling her how I couldn't look after my baby, I'm an awful mother. That doctor called the infant feeding co-ordinator to come and see me. That was my turning point. She brought me a double electric pump (why was I not given it when we first got there??), found that DD had a small TT, showed me how to do breast compressions, and gave me a manual pump for at home. We were discharged the next day. I'm still in contact with the IFC and she often refers mums to me for peer support.

Sorry this has been so long. I have not yet complained but will be using this essay (sorry!) as a start. But I want to do more. I will be contacting PALS to push them to go for stage 2 and 3 baby friendly status, and going to local bf groups every month to gather other mum's experiences to take to PALS.

Almost forgot the best bit. I was bf in a hospital cafe near the childrens ward and was told "you can't do that in here" by a member of staff. But that's a different thread!

LoisLame and

I hope you totally blanked the person who told you that you couldn't bf in the cafe.

emsyj I argued with her about it and the security guard just walked out. Guess he didn't want to take her side. The worst things are that a mum was bottle feeding in there at the same time (so she can feed her child but i can't feed mine?) and that the woman took the blanket out of DDs pram and put it over my shoulder. I did report her to PALS and everytime I go past the cafe I put a breastfeeding welcome sticker on the door. They keep magically disappearing

[grin[ good for you!

Wow. My experience is nothing like this bad but I think goes to show how commonplace this sort of thing is. I'd given birth with minimum trauma at home but had to go in afterwards for stitching. Dd2 was a big baby, v content and feeding a bit. I was made to wait 6-7 hours in hospital until anaesthetist was available for spinal. I went to surgery around midnight, stitched fine, fell asleep in the recovery area for a couple of hours. Woke and returned to room to find DD2 had been given formula as she was screaming. As far as I'm aware there was no reason why she couldn't have been brought to me, I can't have been in surgery more than 15 mins and was awake and in stirrups anyway, and they could have just woken me up afterwards (as she had no problem doing as soon as we were home!). I felt like bfing was so far down the list of priorities for the nursing staff, and having had difficulties with feeding with DD1, I felt what's the bloody point. Was pissed off at having to go into hospital anyway, this took the biscuit. Still rankles with me that DH let them do it but they are called Health Care Professionals for a reason. Supposedly.

If a mum says to midwives that she is breastfeeding they should be obliged to seek permission before giving formula. Especially if it's being given like a "treatment". They wouldn't take blood or give a jab without permission so why is this so different? If a FF baby was breastfed by a wetnurse or given donated breastmilk without the mothers permission would that be acceptable? Me thinks not.

One of the things that really irks me is that the policy of the NHS is to encourage and increase breastfeeding, but then when a mum does decide to breastfeed, it s almost as if the beaurocracy sets out to systematically undermine her chances of succeeding.

I know this is not always the case and that there are instances of fantastically supportive individuals but that shouldn't be the case. It should be that you are lucky to get good support. It should be standard! Dammit! It is no good telling mums (and hcps) that 'Breast is best' and then not giving them the tools to succeed (or in the case of hcps: the tools to help properly!)

LoisLame - both the hospitals I refer to in my first post are Unicef Baby Friendly. Make of that what you will.

In fact I think being in a so-called Baby Friendly hospital probably did more harm than good in my case. Firstly you kind of assume the people helping you know what they're talking about, so you are less inclined to disregard what they say at the time even if in hindsight it was really unhelpful. Secondly you assume that they are dedicating what resources they have to helping women breastfeed so you're less inclined to make a fuss. That was my reaction anyway.

Oh and in response to your question, I didn't complain, it felt so petty in the grand scheme of things, and my care was so mediocre I had no confidence I'd be listened to or taken seriously. I felt a bit, well, middle-class about it all too.
Can't believe I was so feeble looking back but I guess I had just squeezed a 9 pounder out!

Achieving Baby friendly status is difficult but it is predominantly about policies (I think -please don't quote me) and the support a new mum needs is on the shop floor - so to speak.

I'm not sure that in this country it's worth the paper it's written on myself, but that's probably just me feeling bitter as I think back. The policies are certainly sound, but in this day and age I would be amazed if any hospital in the country was NOT doing rooming in, skin to skin, etc. Are there any UK hospitals that are truly Baby Unfriendly, in their policies I mean? There are certainly many that are very baby unfriendly in practice as this thread shows.

That's kinda what I mean Gaelic. it's all good and well having policies but they are useless unless they are actually put into practice.

Not sure if I can post a good experience as such on here but I'll go ahead anyway. I had a very traumatic birth and ended up in ITU blah blah blah. Anyway depsite being very ill I insisted on breastfeeding. The paeds team did battle with ITU to allow me to keep my baby in ITU so I could breastfeed, they sent up the midwives whenever I asked to help me breastfeed my DS. I was that sick I was never ever going to produce any milk however, the midwives looking after me did everything to help and never once mentioned this to me as they saw that I needed to realise that for myself. They provided me with an expressing machine that my DH had to hold onto me as I couldn't never really got any milk out the most was 20-30mls and that was having the damn thing on for an hour. The midwives were nothing but supportive and encouraging and patient. My son was fed from a cup inbetween me trying as he was not getting any milk and I couldn't really hold him for long. After 11 days I had to give up but not at any point did they belittle me or were rude to me or made me feel inadequate. It must have been very difficult to see me keep trying with this baby that in the end just screamed and pushed away from me and also to watch my DH sit holding an expressing machine throughout that day. It was hard to go through but made easier by the midwives.

The hospital I'm talking about is apparently working towards baby friendly status. Part of the issue is that if babies are readmitted (or admitted in my case) they go to the Children's Unit not the postnatal ward and the nurses there are clearly not trained in BF.

loislane very sad but not surprised by your post. I agree that parents should be consulted before formula is given.

Cross posts BlueCollie. It sounds like you had a really horrible time :( but that's great you were given the support you needed by the midwives - that's what we need more of.

I'm struck by how many people seem to have tongue tied babies. It seems to be a condition which isn't being picked up and managed well. Obviously it doesn't always interfere with feeding, but if there was more training and awareness out there then if feeding was going badly a division could be done and specialist support offered which might prevent babies being admitted with weight loss or mothers struggling on for weeks on end with pain etc.

Thanks to all for sharing stories, I don't know about you, but for a long time I couldn't talk, write or think about what had happened to me so I really appreciate the sharing. There were more humiliating and degrading things that happened whilst I was on the ward which I just don't ever want to think about again. This I think was ne of the reasons not to complain, I honestly couldn't bring them up again. Another reason not to complain - referred to upthread - is the fear of seeing these people again for further births. I went to another hospital but one of the midwives from the original hospital was at the new one. Luckily she didn't have much to do with me, but she did say she remembered me from before. I remembered her but pretended I had no idea who she was so she wouldn't go any further down memory lane. A second midwife from before also works as a community midwife and I had to see her regularly this time round. Which was awful but at least she didn't say she remembered me from before. But she asked me why I had switched hospitals. I guess I should have said I had never felt so humiliated, frightened, degrade and neglected as I did during those five days on the ward under the care of her and her colleagues, but it would have made the next visits difficult. And she lives near me - I see her in the supermarket etc.