HV suggested I starve DS to get him to take Bottle/Cup/Formula

[cuppateaanyone]

Help, the thought of starving him feels very wrong.
Have been EBF DS (17wks) who is starting nursery in 2 weeks and I go back to work in 4 weeks he will not accept a bottle or formula AT ALL, have been trying for 4 weeks now.
Have tried all bottles, temps, teats, brands, hungry /not hungry,in his sleep, other people the lot. It seems to be the taste, he pulls a face, spits it out then clamps his lips shut.

There is no way I'll ever be able to express enough (found this very hard and don't produce much)

HV suggested cold turkey and basically starve him out? (HV helpfully said his weight was fine so go ahead)
If I do this my mum and sister have suggested I leave the house until they have managed to feed him.

Do I express a bit and then slowly dilute this with formula?

Advice, experience welcome, I'm desperate.

Thanks cuppa. I'm really not sure when to do it. He's 5 months now and going to nursery at 7 months. I don't know when is best to do it - before he starts solids or after. Am currently considering starting solids in the next week or two, to get him used to that before forcing the bottle issue.

i think once we go, i will stop BF (hopefully he will go for the formula cos i don't want to be expressing).

your last sentence very interesting. Emotionally i am in a bad place at the mo and i don't think this is helping... but i am reluctant to 'jump' because i am scared of it being no better or worse than it is now

having posted that i spoke to DH who basically said he won't support me to go cold turkey with the BF. i can't do it on my own, so that's that really

I'm sorry KSAL :(.
Our absolute driver for this was DS starting nursery and me not being able to express enough or get back to him during the day, I would have continued BF otherwise and, compared to the faff of bottles it's great (I miss it), this was our last resort 2 days before he started nursery so DH HAD to support it as we need to both work, my mum took him so we were very lucky in that respect.

One thing I often heard was how hot babies liked it and we heat ours up alot, more than I thought he'd like but it does seem to help.

The breastflow bottle has been good, the lids don't always screw on that well and they can leak but we've got the knack of it now.

So much can change in a couple of months, especially as food will start to form more of his calorie intake and you'll be able to get round the bottle problem (if you still have it) with baby rice/porridge made up with milk and maybe a sippy cup. I found nursery to be v. supportive, have you talked to them yet about your worries? They will have seen it all before and I could have relied on them more than I thought.
I was so worried about the change in his routine (was anticipating he would feed all night instead) that I started him 2 weeks before my return to work to be able to recover/adapt if need be. So far it's been great, he does now wake for a feed before midnight whereas when I was BF it would be around 3-4am (but once a night is once a night) wind is more of a problem and we have to do it after every feed until we hear something, and rather than feed him to sleep he's now more awake as we've winded him and he still goes down...changing to bottles has changed our routine quite a bit so glad we had a couple of weeks to adjust.
Good Luck xxx

i guess i am worrying too far ahead. nights are bad enough now. think having to do that if he reverse cycles and work ft would be horrific...

I'm very sorry your DH is being unsupportive, KSal . DH has as much of an interest as I do in getting our problems sorted out, as he's looking after DS during the daytimes now.

I've just realised I never came back and updated everyone about how things have gone for me. I fear we didn't get anywhere with bottles. We tried starving DS out, but we cracked after 24 hours where he wouldn't drink anything. He'd taken some solid food, but no liquid, and it just seemed cruel to carry on.

I'm feeding twice early in the morning (at 6 and then again at 8, before I go to work), DH is spoonfeeding DS formula during the day when I'm out (replacing two breastfeeds), and at the moment I'm coming home, doing the bedtime feed and then doing some more work at home in the evening. If DS wakes between bedtime and midnight, I feed him, but he doesn't get fed between midnight and 6: DH has him then so that I get some uninterrupted sleep and can function at work. DH goes to bed early and then sleeps in the morning till I leave for work.

KSal, is your DH just not prepared to help you go cold turkey, or is he actually not pulling his weight at all? Sharing the nights might help: we find that DS settles better for DH, as he doesn't think he's going to get fed.

It's not sustainable in the long term, and I wish passionately that I hadn't breastfed, but I think we can stagger on like this for the next two or three months, by which time DS should be able to manage a cup. He reacts as badly to a sippy cup as he does to a bottle, unfortunately, so it has to be an open cup, and at the moment he tries to grab and ends up with the contents of the cup all over him.

Petsville - good to hear from you, sorry it didn't quite work out, think the division of labour really helps, my DH shares feeding now as well and I feel like I too can function. We were ruthless and did no food or drink until he took it, realise this is tough but it did work, if it ever becomes unsustainable this might be an option?
Have been telling my pregnant friends to consider a bottle early on in case they encounter this.

KSAL, I was utterly terrified DS would reverse cycle but he hasn't - I tied myself up in knots about stuff and something Kissncuddle said really made me stop and think, she said I'd regret not enjoying the time I had left with him and she was right, another two months is a quarter of your DS's life, so much can change for the better.

reading this with interest as am back at work next thursday and there is no sign of DD taking a bottle or cup yet. Can I ask a bit of advice too please?

She's 13 weeks, so will be 14 when I go back. She is putting on weight steadily but has dropped a couple of centiles since birth (2 weeks o/d). She's generally happy and seems to be doing well so am not overly worried about the weight in itself.

Is she too young to try cold turkey approach? I am only in 2 days a week and happy to feed all night if necessary, plus have had no problems expressing and now have a freezer tray full of milk. Option B is to work from home (not popular with boss!) or option C to get my mum/partner to bring her to me at lunch (40 mile round trip). I just don't know what to do!!! All opinions gratefully received!

Hi Goldrill, I spoke with my HV first (3 times in fact) and also on a routine doc's appt, I wouldn't have done things without checking with them first.
Personally I think the longer they get used to something the harder something is to change and, had I have known how hard it would be I would have done this earlier. (DS WAS 18 weeks)
I would say that his routine went a bit skew wiff but nothing major, wind is more of a problem now.
Have you done everything else first? If you have ignore the rest of this but worth a read if not.

-Try introducing the bottle between feeds - so baby gets a feel of the teat.
-Warm up the teat.
-Put some EBM on the teat.
-Is it the bottle ? Breastflow leak sometimes but be good
-Get someone else to introduce the bottle in a different place
-If you or baby are getting upset then leave it and come back to it.
-Has she tried being out if the room/house? - Sitting next to Dad while
he feeds so baby can see her.
-Wrapping the bottle in something that smells of you
-Cup feeding (might be a bit early for you)
-Doing it when baby is half asleep
-Avoiding eye contact and talking / moving around (it's like they don't like the pressure)

Kelly Mom tips:www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/bottle-feeding.html

hi cuppa and thanks for reply
Have, unfortunately, tried most of those things but will definitely keep trying different combinations (have not yet tried using defrosted milk as someone mentioned below so that's next!).
She will happily sit with the bottle in her mouth or take a sip from a sippy or doidy cup but won't actually swallow it! I don't know if I'm maybe not letting her get hungry enough, but the weight issue has made me very reluctant to push it too far.
I've got GP and BF clinic appointments on Monday so will see what they reckon about length of time without food - have found advice from both those sources to be wildly variable in the past though so am a bit unsure whether this will be any different.

A friend of mine went through this and paid for a personal consultation to solve the problem. What she was advised to do, was introduce the bottle at the time the baby has gone the longest spell between feeds. She was advised to start this at the weekend, so that her husband could offer the baby the bottle.

They were advised to keep offering the baby the bottle every 15/20 minutes, but only for five minutes or so at a time. If the baby goes two hours without drinking anything, she was then advised to give 30/50mls by syringe,so that the baby did not become dehydrated.

It took nearly a whole day before the baby actually drank anything from the bottle, and even then it was only a couple of ounces.

Once the baby was taking a couple of ounces, she was advised to offer a couple of ounces every two hours up until 10pm. As long as the baby had taken a reasonable amount during the day, she was then advised to let the baby sleep until he woke. He actually slept nearly five hours then woke and drank four ounces. She then spaced the feeds out to three hourly on the second day. By the third day the baby was taking full bottles of expressed milk, at which stage she started breastfeeding in the morning and the evening, and bottle fed during the day.

i've read this thread with interest.. my dd is 12weeks and i'm due back at work at the end of april and i'm having the same problem with bottle refusal. My health visitor reccommended a doidy cup here which is starting to work.. I've been trying it one feed a day for the last 10 days or so and she is starting to drink from it reasonably well, although about 50% is still going down her bib.. at least she doesn't turn purple and scream like she did at the bottle :)

sorry about the dodgy punctuation, one arm is holding bfing baby!

Priyag - sounds like very good advice, we went no fluids at all until he took it but as long as he kept producing wet nappies we were ok to continue.
On reflection it was like we had to teach him how to feed from a bottle.
Good luck everyone.

DH very supportive in all other ways, just doesn't want to cause distress to DS over bottle/breast.

in a more positive note DS (now 22 weeks) took about 4-5 ounces of formula from a sippy cup today (the basic tommee tippee) so huge relief all round - means he can feed at nursery :)

We also went no fluids but cracked at 24 hours when DS still hadn't taken anything: he cried all the time, except for 6 hours when he fell asleep because he was exhausted, and we just couldn't do it to him any more. It really felt like torturing him. We're working on cup feeding, but I don't know how to replace the bedtime feed, and it's quite important for me to be able to stay out beyond his bedtime (my commitment's already being questioned at work).

Petsville, sorry work is giving you a hard time, we didn't feed him either whereas I think you did.
(The guilt makes me feel terrible)
Re bedtime feed could DH spoonfeed also?
We find now because we have to wind him that he can be quite wake whereas before I would feed to sleep. So now we take a full DS and me and him lie on the bed together and I ssshhhh him and stroke him a little to really relax him, then I stop the stroking then the sshhhing then we just lie there together then I transfer to the cot - it actually takes less time than when I bf him to sleep and he fusses less - madness
KSAL-amazing, so pleased for you, think what we did actually made him go backwards re feeding but we ran out of time. We are already finding that DS does stuff at nursery he doesn't do here, he def eats more for them and sits happily in a chair.

Cuppatea - don't feel guilty you've done a wonderful thing bfing your baby. Everytime you are feeling the guilt tell yourself this! Also make sure you enjoy the time before nursery.

Even when in FT nursery he never took any mild and I just had to feed through the night. But my son was on solids so could manage with yoghurt and water.
He has been in FT nursery since 13 months and only took a carton of milk at 15 months.

KSal, I sympathise with your DH - it did upset DS enormously when we tried. Very pleased that a sippy cup seems to be working for you! DS reacts just as badly to those as he does to the bottle. Have no idea what the problem is - it's not the taste, as he'll take formula from a spoon.

Thanks for the tips on getting DS to sleep, cuppatea. The problem with spoonfeeding is that at the moment I feed DS in the bedroom before putting him in his cot, and the spoonfeeding process is just too messy to do that, but we could probably change the routine so that he gets fed somewhere else and then gets quiet time in the bedroom before being put in his cot - we should probably try that once he's adjusted to me being out of the house all day.