"Best" IBCLC training?

[organiccarrotcake]

I'm considering ABM and NCT but has anyone got any advice or experience at all?

Thanks :)

crikey - the requirements say 'BfN, LLL, ABM and NCT all have different ways of working and supporting their trained breastfeeding workers. You would be expected to work solely for the charity that trained you. In most cases you will not be able to start NCT diploma training. You may also find that your organisation will not allow you to train/work within the NCT if you are already working for them."

It means you cannot work as a BfN, LLL or ABM supporter at the same time as training to be an NCT bfc.

I think this is just being respectful of the different organistions, and to avoid accusations of 'poaching' and blurring of styles and approaches - I'd be pretty sure BfN, LLL and ABM would not have a currently-working NCT bfc as a student, as well.

NQC BFing help doesn't have to be dependent on income. Just about anyone can afford 30 or 40 quid, surely? And I know some yoga teachers who cut their prices for people in difficult circumstances so that could be done too. I think it is about saying this is valuable and therefore could easily be paid for by the family. Gabrielle Palmer talks quite a bit about women not being economically valued.

Hmm, I don't know how those organisations would be about that - I know that the BfN and the ABM work reasonably well together.

I'm sure there are people who can't afford 30 or 40 quid. I think yoga is more of a luxury item than BF help.

I don't think people wanting to be paid for BF help are unreasonable, and I'm sure plenty of IBCLCs out there do good work (I am a bit at the independent ones, tbh). But I wouldn't be comfortable doing it that way, myself, I don't think.

I don't want to be paid, either, or at least not by mothers.

Mothers in the UK have a statutory right to maternity care and everyone has a statutory right to healthcare.

We - happily - don't have a culture of paying for essential care. In fact, it's the non-essential stuff we pay for - chiropody, dentistry (except children and new mothers for whom it is essential), yoga :). Essential optometry is free.

Putting a price on it for the consumer makes it more of an optional extra. I think help and support with breastfeeding, for those that need it, is essential and it should be free. New mum gets her teeth looked after free, but has to pay for breastfeeding support? No thanks!

Many, many people would be unwilling and/or unable to pay for a private visit from a bfc - yes, of course it's cheaper in the long run than formula, but people don't do that sort of maths.

TT - I don't entirely agree. I think we'd both agree that the NHS should pay for BFCs and for it to be a recognised profession within the NHS. This would be best for mums. But I think that given the commitment it takes to train it would be more likely that more women would do it if they could get paid.

Of course, if a charity funds the training that cost should be repaid first.

We should have access to free essential healthcare and I include dentistry in that - and osteopathy for instance which is not available on the NHS but you wouldn't find a volunteer osteopath.

I am a very active volunteer on the NCT and other organisations, plus I run an ethical business whose whole reason for being is to support community development projects. I have chosen to work 4 days a week for the last ten years to give me the time to do the volunteering I do, thus essentially donating tens of thousands of pounds in "lost" income to the causes I support. I can afford to do this but it's sad if bfing support would be more readily available, and isn't, just because people can't afford to give up their time.

There are many people who can't afford to pay a BFC, but there are plenty who can, and that seems ok to me, if it drives up the availability of care (subject to appropriate qualifications).

This is completely off topic so apologies for carrying on with this, but it is relevant from the POV of people looking to go down the training route.

Sorry, had to do the school run halfway through that and it's not the most coherent thing I've ever written.

crikeystripey No I wasn't as it happens but it was quite relevent to you anyway . Must remember not to say "crikey" on this board .

Right, I'm off to build-your-own-robot with DS1. Back later after bedtime :)

that did sound a bit rubbish - equating it to yoga, but the point i was trying to make was that people wanting to be paid for bfing support can make concessions. and i agree with organiccarrotcake that given that it takes 2/3 years to train, it seems ridiculous that you are not 'allowed' to be paid.

i know that ideally every woman would have brilliant breastfeeding support from the government but that is simply not the case. in the pct where i live, funding has been cut and everyone is waiting for more cuts. the breastfeeding policy lady has had her hours cut from five days to two and the peer counsellors who helped me were going to be paid but they are not now.

in this case, it only seems a good idea for more people to get out there and offer breastfeeding support (if trained and insured) and charge a fee if that is what they need to do.

I would be uncomfortable with the idea of being paid to do b/f support, because in my mind it is only because society as a whole has become so crap at this that women need outside support in the first place. In an ideal world - which none of us will ever see - most if not all women would get support within their own circle of friends and family.

On the other hand, I mentioned by thoughts about counselling to my parents and they were incredulous that I would embark on an in depth training course that would not lead to a financial reward at the end of it.

I feel that being a BFC would be incredibly rewarding and I am certainly not doing it with the intention of being paid. I want to make a difference, although I'm even more interested in the bigger picture. I just don't think it's unreasonable for someone to choose that route .

Anyway, huge thanks to all of you qualified ladies who have given us advice here. I really appreciate it :)

I don't think it's at all unreasonable for bf support to count as 'work' and for women to be paid to do it.

I am just unhappy with us expecting the women who are receiving the help to pay for it.

I guess I am also uncomfortable with the fact that (afaik) unless independent BFCs are IBCLCs, they are not supervised - so there's no structure for complaints/issues to be handled. (It doesn't help that the one local for-money BFC in my neighbourhood, I've had unpleasant dealings with (when she was a yoga teacher, oh, the irony) and heard only bad things about.)

NQC, I feel the same way. I don't mind bfcs being paid at all, but it should not be the mothers who pay.

I don't think IBCLCs are supervised. There is their system of re-registering, and of course if anyone had complaints, they could comment to the prof organisation (ILCA) and to the certifying body.

I think the supervision system of our voluntary organisations is very good.

Have started filling in my application. Am now worried sick in case they say no

gaelicsheep- I can kind of see where your parents are coming from.

I had another read through all of the NCT info on the bfc training last night.

If I understand correctly-
You can't be a peer supporter with any other org to do the bfc training.
You have to help with fundraising
You study for 2.5/3 years
You commit to volunteering for 3 years afterwards.
You can't do any private bfing support work in the meantime.
You may have to pay for your course.

Maybe I'm wrong, but to me that seems like quite a lot of restrictions.

I've just started a surestart peer support course, so I'm going to see how that goes and reassess my options at the end of it.

Thanks for all the contributions- it was a very interesting and useful thread and has helped me see how much commitment (both in time and finances) the bfc training would be.

TT I like how the NCT do their antenatal classes, offering them to people on certain benefits for something like £2, for a course costing IRO £200 (can't remember exactly). Maybe women benefitting from a NCT BFC consulation could be encouraged to donate to the charity... but then would that put people off asking for help, I don't know . Complex, isn't it.

Anyway, great news JJJ!. Who have you chosen?

lol NQC at the yoga teacher/BFC who was a bit dodgy lol

i spoke to some friends about it today - some breastfed, some struggled, and quite a few said they would rather pay as it kind of puts them in control as a client rather than some kind of patient... pretty affluent though so could afford it. Also some would rather pay for a more mother to mother type service rather than some kind of (intimidating they said) expert. and foreign nationals expect to pay often and won't not pay apparently, particularly wealthy americans apparently.

i agree supervision is an issue although a well trained BFC/BFPC who is volunteering for PCTs/NCT/LLL will be kept up to date, and if they are insured... hmmm difficult one

anyway very interesting, thanks... don't really know what the solution is. it seems a shame that there can't be all sorts of ways of supporting women to breastfeed. I hope someone important is reading this!

Supervision, for me, is about support and information, as much as about complaints.

The BfN, from what I know, requires that people who train, volunteer afterwards. I don't know for how long - realistically, if someone wasn't working out as a BFC, they wouldn't force them to do the volunteering, I don't think.

All training, afaik, is free.

But you agree to not use that training to charge women for help. That being said, I know of one BfN person who trained as a IBCLC, as she was moving oversees, and there was no problem with that. (I know of another who trained as a LLL BFC as well, for the same reason, again, no problem.)

"I would be uncomfortable with the idea of being paid to do b/f support, because in my mind it is only because society as a whole has become so crap at this that women need outside support in the first place. In an ideal world - which none of us will ever see - most if not all women would get support within their own circle of friends and family."

I completely agree gaelicsheep - i also know that the idea of doing an in depth course and then volunteering is completely bonkers to quite a lot of people. lot of people simply woudn't bother, which is a big shame imo.

I think I should clarify. What I meant to say is I would be uncomfortable with the idea of being paid by the women I would be supporting. I know that I would have found it difficult to pay for such support so wouldn't expect it of others. It would be wonderful if the NHS would employ many more paid breastfeeding supporters, but I'm under no illusions that it will ever happen, and if it did they would not be people like me with no healthcare background.

CrikeyBadger - the things you list are why I am thinking of going with a different organisation. I could not afford to pay more than a nominal amount for the course no matter how altruistic I am. The ABM charges £100 - incidentally that's 44 times less than the NCT not 440 times . (I realised that at 3 am this morning )

Ruby - I think our society (there I go again) breeds the attitude that we should only put in effort for financial gain. The idea of knowledge for the sake of knowledge, even if a lot of good can come from it, does seem alien to many people. That includes the Govt who continually send out the message that education is only of value if it leads to a good job - funny how keen they are to have people to train and volunteer if it suits them not to pay.

gaelic excellent point. I totally agree that learning for the sake of it is immensely valuable.

i couldn't agree more but it is not the world we live in. and you are absolutely right that about everything being valued in economic terms - education leading to a good job rather than life long learning or simply bettering oneself for the greater good, but the reality is women are suffering from lack of support precisely because breastfeeding is not valued economically. we hear things about it being worth £13billion a year in terms of the cost of not breastfeeding on the economy and yet it is not at the forefront of this country's attitude to breastfeeding that actually it is worth a lot to this country and should be treated as such - women produce this amazing substance out of nothing. when you think about it, it really is amazing. anyway, in the same way, bfing support workers of all kinds are not paid for all of their job . its the same thing. so women need to take it upon themselves to help each other out and that should be valued in some way. in this economic world it would be helpful for people to be paid for what they do. the government aren't going to do it, so women will have to do it themselves. in fact, why shouldn't women actually want to pay for a service such as this, in which case, more people could make a living from it and more women could breastfeed. assuming of course it actually makes a difference... i am actually rambling now .

can i just ask, do those bfpc/bfc/ibclcs on here have other full time jobs? and can you have a full time job and train at the same time?

That's a very good point, ruby. In one sense, while women don't get paid for BF support, that support remains undervalued. It's human nature. And perhaps those BFC who currently work part or full time to make ends meet, and fit BFC around this, and would prefer to be full time BFCs, would then be far more available to far more women.

Tiktik's argument of course is that it's not the individual mother who should pay and I couldn't agree more. But getting the NHS to pay for something new is pretty darned unlikely :(

Therefore if a BFC chooses to ask for payment from some private clients, and also does free work representing charities - maybe that's a compromise? In a sense some NCT BFCs this do as they get paid for doing BFC courses within the NCT antenatal courses (although I don't think it's exactly enough to retire on!).

Officially, when I am posting on here, I am not qualified in any way, or representing any organisation at all. (If I was qualified, and I had spoken to my supervisor, she might have advised me that it is not OK to post as the voice of any organisation at all. Of course, this isn't an issue, because I am not involved with any BF organisation, in any way.)

I know people in my neighbourhood who earn their living as BFCs, paid by the NHS. But we are very lucky, and have a project paying for ward visits and home visits.

I know people in my neighbourhood who also earn their living coordinating the project, and also working as supervisors and tutors within the BFN.

There are also plenty of people who either have other fulltime jobs, or who are wrangling children.

The courses, and phoneline work, are generally possible with fulltime work - they do daytime classes and supervision (with creche) and evening classes and supervision(without).

I know that the phonelines are better-staffed in the evenings and weekends, because most of the women answering the phones, do so in the evenings, when home from work.