"Best" IBCLC training?

[organiccarrotcake]

I'm considering ABM and NCT but has anyone got any advice or experience at all?

Thanks :)

'people working with breastfeeding mothers should definitely get it IMO'

Ruby, £200 is a crazy price for a volunteer earning maybe £100 tops from classes!

But some BFC do volunteer work combined with private work and a few private home visits pay for the insurance and allow the volunteer work to continue.

Bert : "But some BFC do volunteer work combined with private work and a few private home visits pay for the insurance and allow the volunteer work to continue."

Who? I don't know any currently registered NCT bfc who does private home visits - and I don't think NCT would be very happy about it (pretty sure it is explicitly proscribed in the code of conduct). They certainly cannot do it with an NCT hat on, and switching hats is very hard!

is it? how many classes do they do? and why can't NCT bfc do home visits - that seems bonkers?! women need help at home!!!!

and as an ibclc you can do all sorts of things - classes, home visits, clinics...

Of course we visit people at home!!!!

We can't get paid for it, is what I meant!

so nct bfc don't do home visits - is that right tiktok? do other organisations allow it?

oh i see!!! so its voluntary!? gosh - that's a big ask!

Yes, it's voluntary.

Who would you think would pay us, Ruby?!

There are some IBCLCs (and some unqualified, unsupervised, self-styled breastfeeding experts) who make a living out of private consults and I don't resent that at all - this is almost solely in London where there is deffo a market.

After all, London has something like a 90 per cent bf initiation rate, and enough people with enough disposable income to make it possible.

A few NCT bfcs have jobs as clinic supporters, or if they have had the NCT training in training peer supporters, they get paid to train. There are (IIRC) about 30 tutors who are paid to train bfcs (no one AFAIK does this anything but very part time). And we get paid to do classes, and to do duty shifts on the breastfeeding line.

This is not a living or a career. But there are opportunities to be paid.

Some people gain the qualification to enhance their other career, usually as an HCP, and that's ok, of course.

Just to make it crystal - NCT breastfeeding counsellors do see women at home, or in their own homes (I tend to do this rather than visit women - I do go and see them if they have transport problems or if the baby is very new. But usually I ask them to come here).

I'd hate the idea to get around that we only speak on the phone!

All BFCs (I hope!) do voluntary home visits.

In our neighbourhood, BfN people do hospital visits, too - volunteer and paid. And paid home visits, for that matter - paid by the NHS, not the mums they are visiting.

Whatever problems I have had with the NCT head office (and yes, they objected to us using BfN BFCs to run breastfeeding classes - when 100% of our local BF support is BfN) the NCT workers I have met (mostly antenatal teachers, when I was organising the classes) have all been absolutely lovely. I have 100% trust in the NCT BFC system - if I'm trying to find a BF group for someone, and can find an NCT one, then that's the one I go with.

i don't know tiktok - the women themselves?! i wouldn't mind paying 30/40/50 quid for some help with breastfeeding...

it seems weird when so many people need help that women aren't paid for helping them feed their babies. why only london? all over the country women need help. surely? women who help other women feed their babies deserve to be paid for their time!

'All BFCs (I hope!) do voluntary home visits.'n why on earth is it voluntary!? failing to breastfeeding costs £450 a year or something. it would be cheaper to pay for help, particularly early on when problems can be avoided?

Why only London, you ask, Ruby? As I said - far more breastfeeding, and enough people with enough money to pay for private help. I'd add density of population, too.

I dunno - I think it's prob the same for doulas, is it not? Not a lot of them actually making a sustainable living outside major centres, esp London.

yeah i guess so. i didn't realise you couldn't make a sustainable living outside london as a doula for eg...

I might be wrong about this - maybe there are some doulas who are doing ok!

I bet not many though.

Milkmatters 'recruit' bfcs to work on a private basis - but I guess that could only happen if the vol org that you work for would be happy about this. (From what you said earier tiktok, NCT probably wouldn't be).

Can I ask a question please? It's been mentioned on this thread that BFcs cannot give advice only support. So how does this work then if you see a mother who is having trouble latching her baby on? Surely then you do have to give some tips about positioning and suggest some new things to try? I'd like to be quite hands on - helping women with bfing in hospital and getting it established and I'm not sure how the 'counselling' side fits in with this.

BFCs do help with latching - albeit not in a (literally) hands-on way. But that's still information, or ideas, like 'it might be worth trying X', or 'some mums find that X helps with that'. Or 'if you do Y, then Z may happen'. Rather than 'you must do X' or 'X works for everyone'.

Often this is done, in person anyway, by sitting opposite the mum with a doll.

The advice/information thing can seem quite subtle, but it's an important distinction. Women are so disempowered by the birth experience and by medical professionals, it's vital that we treat women with respect.

And the home visits are voluntary because, I for one, am not comfortable saying to anyone 'you can have help with BFing, but only if you have cash'. I don't think BF help should be dependent on income.

All the UK BFCs have been trained by charities anyway - the BfN requires that you do a certain number of hours on the phoneline after the BFC qualification (and a certain amount of work in groups etc after the peer qualification). I don't think these requirements are enforced, but in order to remain associated with the BfN, you have to be doing work, and supervision, and ongoing training.

OK thanks NQC- I see now. I guess it's a skill that the course teaches you.

I am not sure what NCT thinks about Milkmatters, crikeybadger. Prob a policy or something will emerge!

'Advice' , the not-giving-of, is simply an approach. So in terms of what you might say, making suggestions is fine. What we don't ever say is 'you should....', 'if I were you.....', 'I think you ought to....', still less 'my advice is to....'

It's to do with the counselling skills we operate with - you keep the mother in control and at the centre of the encounter. You learn how to support and suggest, without ever advising.

We're not hands on, either - no touching of mother and baby in normal circumstances (if that's what you meant - you may not have meant it literally). I don't like to say 'never' but I 'never' need to touch either of them. There's some fairly good research showing hands off is more effective at helping, too.

However, I am certain there are some wonderful breastfeeding support people who are hands on and who give advice left right and centre! It's just not what we do.
There are many ways to support breastfeeding - as I said, there is not one definitive 'true' way.

"'Advice' , the not-giving-of, is simply an approach" - ahhh this clarifies something that was confusing me, too! Thanks TT.

Interesting discussion about earning from this. I do not see any reason why a person shouldn't be in a position to earn a living from being a BFC. There are virtually no positions where it's considered unreasonable for a person to make a living from their skills. Now, most people going into BFC do it because they desperately want a better BFing experience for other women, but BFing counselling is perhaps similar to being a midwife (within the "medical" context) where it is a normal, healthy process (as opposed to an illness as with other medical training), which can go wrong and need assistance, or go right and just need the experience to say it's going right. Midwives are almost always really passionate about "Normal Birth", the experience of the labouring mother and the health of the child. But noone would expect a MW to work for nothing, just because every woman should have the right to a good midwife/the chance of normal birth.

I'm not saying that I want to go into this as a way of earning a living personally, and I recognise that that's not realistic anyway. I just feel that it's not at all wrong to do so.

I also note that Milkmatters donate their profits to charity. What "profit" means and which charities I'm not sure.

Anyway.

I think I understand more about what you mean by campaigning, TT, and the LLL, which as you say would mean this would be a non-starter for me. I've been reading through the NCT's extensive information sheets about BFC training (someone pointed me there from here - link back on a previous page) which is really just what I needed. It does say that if you're peer support trained by ABM, LLL or BfN you will probably not be accepted for BFC training which seems odd.

It does say that the NCT expects counsellors to give at least 3 years to them after training. If anyone knows what the implication of unforeseen life changes are which stop this from being possible could you let me know? If not I will give them a quick ring.

Crikey this is complicated isn't it! Thanks to everyone for their continued input.

Yes organic, it's a bit of a minefield and for the committment that you put in to it, it has to be right for you.

oh and I wasn't being literal about being hands on tiktok - I've read of lots of women on mn who have been manhandled by HCPs and it can't be good for them or the baby.

oh just realised you probably weren't addressing me directly organic