"Best" IBCLC training?

[organiccarrotcake]

I'm considering ABM and NCT but has anyone got any advice or experience at all?

Thanks :)

Yes the NCT seem very insular and very protective of their own training. On a grass roots level things are very different and the different organisations do talk but the NCT HO will not accept a non NCT trained BFC to do any of the teaching on their antenatal courses. Don't forget that NCT BFC do get paid for this part of their job so this may be something to do with it.

The trouble is that most parents haven't heard of ABM / BfN or LLL and will go straight to the NCT.

You can't work for NCT if you have trained with another organisation - it's an insurance thing. NCT insures me, so that if I say something mad or if someone says I say something mad, and a baby or mother is harmed, I am covered. NCT cannot insure someone from another organisation. NCT also ensures a quality control, and supervision - they cannot ensure quality control or supervise other organisations.

We certainly work with other organisations.

There's no competition. Really, there is not!

But I cannot see the day coming when all would be 'the same' - for a start NCT is not a breastfeeding organisation but is concerned with a/n education and postnatal support as well as all the attendant issues.

Like any course, NCT training comes with costs. The vast majority of students (I gather) do not pay their fees out of their own pockets.

See, I've personally raised upwards of a thousand squid for the NCT over the years, not to mention the voluntary work I've done to raise money for the branch, which I understood was to a) pay for HO and b) pay for training. Yet there's no clarity as to whether training is paid for and following various NCT e-groups including specialist workers it seems that plenty of paid workers are being screwed over having their payments changed.

I just dunno. AIBU, as it were?

But you can have private insurance as a BFC so then you would still be insured. NCT training department is a bit of a nightmare - takes forever to get an answer on anything and communication with the branches is non existent.

All this is really putting me off the NCT, I have to say... (sorry NCT people, once again). But I totally agree that most parents would immediately think of the NCT for b/f advice - hell, I did 4 years ago. And as was said on my thread about b/f helplines, if the other organisations did raise awareness then their helplines would be swamped.

Bert: "NCT HO will not accept a non NCT trained BFC to do any of the teaching on their antenatal courses." This is not the case. If there really is no NCT bfc available in the area and the NCT teacher feels unable to do this part of the course then it is permitted for a bfc from another organisation to do it.

This would not be ideal, though - the antenatal education/groups part of the NCT diploma is a quarter of the course (about) and NCT student bfcs are required to observe NCT courses and to compare different NCT bfcs' bf classes - there are a number of assignments on precisely this aspect of the work and a whole weekend's workshop training. I am not that familiar with other organisation's training, but I don't think they do anything like this much on this aspect.

The training of each org. is different. We all have a mother-centred, non-judgemental ethos, so to that extent it is similar. But there are points where we differ - as I said, LLL are not permitted to campaign, for instance.

I have worked with bfcs from all the organisations, and with IBCLCs. I don't feel I am competing and I don't feel any of us is better than anyone else. There are many ways to support breastfeeding - no one 'true' way!

"But you can have private insurance as a BFC so then you would still be insured."

Do you know any individual breastfeeding counsellors who have their own private insurance? I wonder how much it would be to insure an individual, not part of an organisation....

I guess we're tring to get to the bottom of what those differing points are :)

I am a huge NCT fan BTW, despite my posts here.

organice: "various NCT e-groups including specialist workers it seems that plenty of paid workers are being screwed over having their payments changed."

?????

Not the case.

I, on the other hand, have no experience at all of the NCT. I didn't do their antenatal course - couldn't afford it - and there is no local branch here. I'm not sure I know enough about their ethos to commit to 3 years with them post-training - perhaps I wouldn't even be accepted on the course.

I haven't even had an email from the local(ish) e-group forum for upwards of 6 weeks. Not very active up here at all!

I apologise for that - it was an unfair comment as it is my perception of things I've seen/heard/been told and have no actual evidence of really. Please to ignore as this discussion is too serious for unfounded accusations - although your saying it's untrue is helpful.

I should have asked your experience and understanding of this, TT, rather than making a comment. I'm sorry.

I am a Mother Supporter with the ABM for several years now. The ABM's suited me because I am a full time working mother. I also felt confident that I could do distance learning for the course.

I would love to do the BFC course but work and family commitments at this time means that I cannot dedicate the hours I'd need to put behind it to do the course the the standard which I think it demands.

While it is primarily distance learning, every trainee (MS and BFC) is assigned a mentor who she can contact for feedback throughout the course, be it MS or BFC. There are also regional study days which are accredited towards keeping one's bfc or MS qualification and which trainees can participate in to give valuable feedback. Outside these study days, you can also attend accredited courses which are conducted by reputable organizations. So it isn't really working in isolation as the distance learning label may imply. There is as with all 3 organizations, internal monitoring for quality control.

There is a very family feel to the ABM maybe partly because of its size.

If anyone else from the ABM is lurking and needs to correct me on anything, feel free as I am, as nearly always, writing off the cuff. And if anyone else would like to ask me any other questions feel free to pm.

I think it's antenatal teachers who've had problems with payments, not BFCs.

I'm afraid I have run into problems with NCT head office being unhappy with the use of non-NCT BFCs - I was using them to run the BF portion of antenatal courses, when no NCT BFCs were available. They told me this was unacceptable. That was a few years back.

The ABM and the BfN do work together - both run the National Breastfeeding Hotline.

cockney yes, that's what I've understood, thinking about it. But then I guess ANTs are more likely to need ongoing equipment and expenses as I thinnk they HAVE more equipment in their classes, and they fund the refreshments, etc. But there was something to do with students' remuneration... I'm not sure but I know that people were upset about it, but what I don't know is whether what happened was fair or not, which is why how I worded my post was unreasonable. Not that I intended to be, I was just tired and juggling a small, very awake little boy at the same time :)

Please can we clarify about payment? My understanding - reinforced by an email sent to specialist workers this week - was that some self-employed antenatal teachers (who contract their services to NCT) in London have experienced a regrading in their contract. I cant go into details - it's not relevant to this discussion. Thanks for withdrawing, organic. There have been no cuts in payments to NCT specialist workers, but for tax reasons, HMRC have ordered NCT to stop paying students for their teaching practice classes.

NQC - I think it's reasonable to be very cautious about using non-NCT bfcs to do classes, and in some instances, to say 'no'. There are many reasons for this - I expect the insurance thing could be overcome at some expense (it is always hugely expensive to get individual insurance for something like this - but Clare Byam Cook's fees will more than cover it whereas a volunteer will find it harder. You mention a doula. A doula is paid far more than the £20-30 a bfc doing a class might get, and she might do as few as 3 or 4 a year...Please lets be realistic about this). The other thing is an NCT breastfeeding counsellor has to be available for postnatal support afterwards and if she is poor at this, or does a poor class, NCT can insist on supervision or extra training or whatever. It's more difficult with someone coming in from outside. Nevertheless, non-NCT bfcs are very occasionally used in unusual situations.

tiktok, not sure exactly what you mean by LLL not being allowed to campaign We do do promotional things, just recently we had a stall at a baby show to raise awareness of the group. I've also been invited to take part in a BF 'collective' organised by the NHS infant feeding co-ordinator (who is also an ex-LLL leader) with representatives from ABM, NCT etc. when I've finished training. I've not been told that I won't be allowed to do this.

From what I've been told, LLL don't affiliate themselves with any other charities or accept sponsorship from companies, is this what you mean? Please bear in mind that I have serious pregnancy brain and I'm not qualified yet!

I don't think there is any competition though, half the people that come to the LLL meeting are also NCT members, one is an NCT ante natal teacher, and a couple of the others are peer supporters but I can't remember who with It's not like West Side Story or anything

Foxytocin - thanks so much for posting. ABM does sound like the one for me - I'm a member already but only recently joined. It is interesting that you felt the same way as me about their teaching methods suiting you as a full time working mum.

EauRouge - I don't think the activities you mention are campaigning, and I have worked with LLL people on both those sorts of things.

My understanding is that LLL could not lobby for a change in the laws related to formula promotion, or for better maternity leave, or get together with others to petition a shop to support a mother told to be in the toilet.

Put me right if I am wrong, though :)

Its not that expensive apparently to get insurance. Around £200 for a year I think. People working in private practice with the general public need indemnity and liability insurance. mothers should definitely get it IMO! CBC must have it, surely.

apparently you can register with these people if you have insurance

Oh, I see what you mean now. Not sure on that, I will check and get back to you. :)