Please help. No one here can

[beijingaling]

I'm writing this in tears. It's 4 am here and I'm exhausted and in agony. Dd is 3 days old and feeding is excruciating. It's only gotten worse too. I have wide but I think probably short nipples and I can never get her to open her mouth wide enough. The nurses tell me the latch is fine as does the bf consultant. I know she isn't getting enough milk though as I can't hear much swallowing. She sucks hard two or three times then stops and needs to be woken up like she's got a pacifier not a source of food. This goes on and on.

My milk came in yesterday and she got one good feed off it but that's been it. I know she's hungry because she is hourly doing the eating fist thing. My breasts are big and painful and I'm worried about mastitis or my milk going if I can't get her to feed.

I'm so desperate to bf her but I can't do this and I can't fix it. I've been on kellymom for help but I've never managed the deep latch thing. DH will help in any way but he's at a loss to watch me crying during feeds.

I leave hospital tomorrow so were going to buy a pump and bottles on the way home. Surely it can't hurt more than this? I really really dont want to formula feed especially in china with the tainted product issue.

I'm by no means an expert but have you tried expressing some milk off before you latch dd on?

My ds2 found it impossible to latch on properly if my breasts where engorged.

Hourly feeding is perfectly normal for a 3 day old baby. They have such tiny tiny stomachs so only need small amounts of milk very often. Obviously these feeds will get longer and more spaced out the older she gets.

Sorry can't help with anything else. Sure someone more experienced will be around soon to help.

Oh and congratulations.

have you tried some warm flannels and massaging your breasts?

It really hurt me the first few days. I eased the painful breasts by hand expressing in a deep hot bath. I felt like a new woman.

Is it your nipples that hurt or breasts in general? I had shooting pains, vasospasms for a few days. It felt like being stabbed with a poker. it's where the milk is travelling along new tubes, to simplify it.

Your baby is very unlikely to not be getting enough - they only need a matter of drops each time they feed.

Breast milk is easily digested and therefore your baby WILL want to feed every hour, or even more.

New born babies can stay latched on to the breast for hours on end (I did 8 hours one day!!) and still be hungry after a 20 minute break.

There isn't likely to be a problem with your nipples. Even women with inverted nipples can breastfeed.

Take a deep breath, relaaaax, you're doing fine. If you can get through the first 2 weeks or so it'll be the most enjoyable thing you ever do.

It's normal for it to be sore at first, it doesn't last.

I'm feeling really sorry for you, sounds so tough, sending lots of love!

Best breastfeeding book is The Food of Love by Kate Evans, try to buy a copy online it'll really help. It has a very relaxed and positive, practical outlook.

Best of luck!

So sorry to hear this, I hope you are feeling a bit better during the day.

Even if bfing is going well, it is possible for it to be very painful in the beginning.

I would recommend using drops of your own milk on your nipples after each feed, and let them dry, and give your breasts as much air time as possible. Or lanosah if you can get it.

You can express a few drops off each bf just before each feed, to get the milk flowing.

Congratulations and good luck!

Agree with what others have said. I had a quick google and there is an English language LLL group in Beijing (I'm guessing that's where you are?), here are the contact details.

It's still really early days and your baby will want to feed little and often. DS would pop and off for over 30 minutes but only take a few sucks at a time, probably only feeding for 5 minutes out of the 30.

He was a big comfort sucker and I used to think he was hungry only for him to suck but not feed. I gave him a dummy to suck on to calm him down if he wouldn't feed (imo nipple confusion is a myth).

I used to hand express a bit if engorged to make it easier for him to latch on and would also squeeze a few drops to get him going.

I also had terrible shooting pain between feeds, like someone was sticking needles in my breasts.

As you and your baby get to know each other I'm sure things will get better for you.

Just sending some support your way... this is such a tough time for you.

The nurses and bf consultant are happy - do you think there is more to it? Is there a reason you think the latch is wrong?

As the other say, it quite often is painful at first, but keep trying, keep practising and you WILL succeed. IMO the biggest factor in bf success is being bloody-midedly determined to succeed.

Small mouth/big nipple combo - tummy to mummy, nipple to nose, bring the baby to you (not you to the baby) and jusy try and get as much of your nipple in there as possible. If it feels wrong, stick your little finger in to break the latch and try again. Take regular deeeeeep breaths, move your shoulders down away from your ears and make sure you're really comfy.

You may find it's easier when you're home and in your own surroundings. Get naked (you and the baby, not DH - he'll be fetching and carrying for you ), get into bed and just offer the boob every time you think you see a feeding cue.

It's very common for babies to fall asleep - sucking is very comforting and relaxing. Try tickling or making her colder (remove clothes/blankets) just to stimulate her. Or she may feed in her sleep - if you're both comfy, leave her latched on and see what happens.

And feeding hourly is 100% normal.

You can do this! Day 3 and 4 can be horribly hormonal but you will get over this hump one feed at a time. Keep us posted.

Sorry you are having trouble BFing.

Just to reiterate what others have said, most of it does sound normal for this stage. Babies can feed pretty much constantly in the early days, and you can get VERY sore. I had quite severe pain, particularly when latching on, for the first week to 10 days with all my babies. This does stop though - there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Good luck and hope you get lots of good advice. Congratulations too!

PS Use Lansinoh or other 100% lanolin cream on sore nipples, keep them exposed to air if at all possible.

And her tummy is the size of a small marble - it helped me to picture this during the almost constant feeding weeks.

You could also give biological nurturing positions a go, where the baby self-attaches - could help you get a deeper latch.

Thank you all so much. The pain is just in my nipples which are cracked and scabbed even though they are covered in lanosah. I can't stand anything against them so they are in constant air dry unless someone comes into the room. I leap a foot if my gown accidently touches them. Bless DH. He sees in my paper pants and horrid nips and loves me more.

I know this is so rewarding and I know I can do it but I just can't cope with how painful it is.

I'll try expressing a little first and keep pushing on.

The only thing that helped me was the information that both top and bottom lips need to be folded back on the latch. No-one else spotted it but I found it on the Kellymom website. Any use?

kellymom is FULL of information. Good luck. The first week is usually pretty agonising sorry!

I promise that if you can get through this time, the cuddles and snuggly times you'll have breastfeeding for months or years ahead are going to be the happiest moments ever!

Ditto to what the others said. You may not hear swallowing, but the pause when sucking should show you when the baby is getting milk.

See Dr Jack Newman's site for really helpful info: www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=75:when-latching&catid=5:information&Itemid=17

I have wide nipples too. Pumping for a little while before feeding can help to draw out the nipple, plus it makes you milky (making it more interesting for baby) and stimulates let-down (so its easier for baby). Pumping shouldn't hurt except for maybe at letdown - try the pump on a fast but gentle pump at first until you get letdown.

Oh and breast massage when pumping and before pumping or feeding can help with everything, including preventing blocked ducts.

Also when I feel her I can see she just has the nipple in and not much areola. The pain has never gotten better after she latches on which the bf lady said it would. Nurses just look at the fish lips thing and go 'yup that's fine'.

I'll contact the lll tomorrow and try again at home. I'm counting the minutes til we can leave.

Thank you all so much I'll keep posting but dd has just fallen asleep so I'm going to try to sleep too.

That sounds like bad latch which is easy to struggle with with wide nipples! Jack Newman's site really does have the best info and videos IMO.

When it hurts throughout the feed like that, not just for the first few seconds, that's when I know DD's latch has slipped even when I can't see it well.

PPS Your supply will not dry up - this takes weeks and weeks - and mastitis this early, whilst possible, would be highly unusual. Just make sure your DD is draining one breast before you offer the next (you'll learn to recognise your own signs for when a boob is empty). Massage any definite lumps, although breasts can be pretty lumpy through engorgement, but again, you will learn to tell what's normal for you.

The pain WILL go.

You can also try something called jelonet (if you can find it) for your nipples. It's a gauze like dressing that will stop your LO removing your scabs every time your baby feeds.

Trying different feeding positions might be worth a go too- rugby hold for example?

You can do this and once you get over this initial rough patch, breastfeeding will feel like a walk in the park. In fact you'll probably be breastfeeding whilst walking in the park

Hang on in there- things will get better soon honest.

If you can get them lilypadz were a life saver for me as they don't run so help with not wanting anything to touch your nipples. They suggest inverting your nipples to put them on but you don't need to - you can just put them over your nipples and they stop leaking, stop anything touching and also keeps your nipples flat so not full of milk / blood and therefore less painful.

Good luck - you will get there!!

not run - rub!!

I have wide flatish nipples too. I found that sometimes when my ds came off and tried to latch back on he couldn't if my nipples were too slidey and wet with milk. I would give them a quick dry with something soft and he found it easier to latch back on. You could also tweak your nipple a little before offering it to him, but I understand that would be painful for you at the moment.

Ditto everything said above especially how wonderful it is once you both "get it".

Much luck and the nips will toughen up soon I promise.

Hope you aren't feeling too alone. Its horrible when you need support but feel its hard to find.

You are already experiencing the hardest part, things will get easier Its awful in those first few days, broken lady-bits, paper pants, sore nips and a baby that you adore but don't quite understand yet!

Your nipples will harden and stop being so sore and your breasts will stop being so ingorged soon.

If your milk has only just come in then it is likely that baby is feeding slowly to cope with the change in your milk.

It would be similar to us being used to drinking water through a thin straw, and then having to sup a really thick milkshake. It would take more effort and take longer.

Keep posting, there are lots of MNers who will support you virtually.

Poor you! I only managed a week BF as I had such bad thrush I was screaming in agony every time she fed (I remember saying it was worse than labour) - But I had horrendous thrush which took over 7 weeks of creams and pills etc to clear up. It's something to bear in mind too if you are getting excruciating pain...(I was on antibiotics just before and over the birth so they caused it). I also have smallish, flatish (sometimes inverted nipples and was literally shoving the aureola into her mouth as there was nothing for her to latch too. The midwives also did this and pronounced her latch fine. I still think it wasn't as my nipple came out looking like a used lipstick (ie on slanted on one side) indicating poor latch even though it all looked fine. I used to express an oz or so prior to latching her on to draw the nipple out a bit. Really hope you get some advice and this gets better for you! Well done!