Risks of Formula feeding on pre-term infants

[thisisyesterday]

how scary is that?

i read a blog which mentioned it here

it was in a piece published by the Journal of Pediatrics, so something to take seriously I think.
makes me feel so :-(

foxinsocks you are making up assumptions all over the place. including that i am someone who found it easy.

i didn't say that women create the problems, just that i have heard of some communities, including aboriginal communities in north west western australia who ALL breastfeed with no problems at all. I just find that really weird.

i'm really sorry incidentally if i have offended anyone being insensitive and militant - i have no idea if this is the case - i was simply responding to what i was reading. i really don't understand why women in this country and other developed countries have so many problems. apart from the lack of support which is woeful and obvious. is it an anglo saxon thing?? seriously, no idea!

i am aware that formula saves lives.

yes, riven, boo hiss to the formula companies for making shed loads of money and promoting their products which undermine breastfeeding all over the world.

I think this must be one of the worst thread titles I've seen on MN in a loooong time.

Misleading, sensationalist and just plain wrong.

Very glad I'm not a few weeks post-natal, having just failed at bf and then saw this.

Awful.

God awful, heartless and pretty spiteful post to do.

OP - Have you READ some of the stories on the FF support thread? There are women here who were DESPERATE to BF but couldn't, and are this very day tearing themselves appart with every bottle they give thier baby.

They then see a post directly stating that formula = death (incidently witten by someone who haddn't read the whole article) and then if they read on they find that in some parts of the world 'there are no BF problems' (which, before anyone says anything, DOES imply that there are quesions about the reality of BF issues in the UK).

I actually think this is teh lowest I have ever seen this place go.

Well done OP. Well done.

"DOES imply that there are quesions about the reality of BF issues in the UK)."

hi toddlerwrangler, i don't quite know what you mean. i know women suffer very real problems breastfeeding and that it can be devastating. but i also know that if women are given the right information and support, it is entirely possible to breastfeed successfully. so i was just expressing my long held non-understanding of the situation, that it is weird that in some parts of the world, everyone breastfeeds no problemo, and in other parts of the world, where there has been a massive about turn on the formula influence and health professional education, breastfeeding rates have shot up. sri lanka for example. i'm really sorry if that is offensive. it was certainly not my intention.

toddlerwrangler... i was that mum

i STILL feel guilty, nearly 6 years on, for not managing to breastfeed ds1 for very long

Do I have a go at people who just want others to be more informed? no.
I direct my anger at the people who failed me. The midwives who made my baby even more breast averse than he was, the HVs who told me I should be weaning him at 16 weeks, the general lack of support and breastfeeding knowledge that would have got his tongue tie diagnosed and all our problems sorting out

The fact is, formula milk is not as good as breastmilk. Breastmilk protects babies against all sorts of things.
Do you think I don't beat myself up every time I remember the bottles I fed ds1? because it wasn't the best I could do for him. I feel guilty as hell... but not because formula is not as good as breastmilk.

There are places where all the women breastfeed. as Ruby says, some aboriginal tribes.are we supposed to pretend this isn't true? that there is something "wrong" with women here that prevents them breastfeeding? just so some women don't feel guilty?
as someone who formula fed her baby i find that pretty offensive

i KNOW my title was stupid. I have asked for it to be changed, because I think interesting points have been raised here and I am not sure starting a whole new thread is necessary.

anyway, you can report it if you think it should be pulled and MN can make the call.

ah sorry Ruby. Thought you were being passive aggressive and implying that because some communities had no problems, that other women were creating them!

it's hard to read posts without hearing someone's tone of voice and looking at their body language and it's a fairly aggressive thread title which probably made me read your post in a more aggressive way!

apologies!

RubyBuckleberry - some women here genuinely cannot breastfeed. I am not saying your comment (I am assuming it was your comment) is directly saying they should be able to BF, what I am saying is that is plays heavily on the insecurities of 'failed' BF mums who already feel that they should have done more to be able to sucsessfully BF. I'm not offended by it - I'm big enough and mean enough to look after myself :) , but I have been following the FF support thread closely the last few weeks and there are some very vulnurable mums here at the moment.

thisisyesterday - I'm not one for reporting threads. I just am not sure this was a well hought out thread, and knowing how vocal you are (that is your right) about the (unquestionable, I agree) superiority of BM over formula the whole thing seems very sensationalist and unfair on some of the women here.

I too was that mum. I am not just angry at the health professionals who 'failed' Alf, I am also angry at the way I was made to feel about formula by the more hardcore BF supporters.

You seem to think I don' want the 'BM s lots better then FF' stats or evidence cited. Thats not at all true. Its just that I cant help but notice that every bit of pro BM 'evidence' is taken by gospel by some here without a seconds thought to its validity.

For the thousendth time - I 100% agree wih the promotion of BM, but NOT through the deamonisation of formula.

I don't post on here very often but I do tend to lurk in the sidelines to read posts which may help me understand things better for bringing up my dd. But fgs it's yet another one of those posts that prompts a reaction from either a ff or bf mum for some reason or another, because someone is being insensitive. How many times has this sort of discussion been done? And what do people actually learn from these repeated debates? It has already been said time and time again that more support is needed to enable mums to bf for longer which I think is the underlying issue. But posting repeatedly on here to highlight that is not achieving anything is it? I'm going to hide threads like these in the future because it's just going over the same ground.

"I too was that mum. I am not just angry at the health professionals who 'failed' Alf, I am also angry at the way I was made to feel about formula by the more hardcore BF supporters."

Well said toddlerwrangler.

I am frankly dubious about the assertion that in some communities every woman can breastfeed without problems. Has the poster asserting that seen as much for herself ie lived in such a community for some time, or is she parroting crap off the web?

you are right that i didn't think through my thread title etc before i posted it

i saw the blog thing, and i was just shocked. and i felt the need to talk about it. which IS what I intended this to be,... I didn't start this out in a "i believe this wholeheartedly, let's vilify formula"

i started it as a "this seems shocking, can we discuss it?" which is, on the whole, what happened

But I think that the gist of that blog post is true... we can't handle the truth about breastfeeding, or the truth about formula however you want to look at it...
ANY criticism of formula results in lots of formula feeders coming on and saying "wahhh you're making me feel guilty"

I do think we need to get past this. I think an awful lot of people either FF from the start, or switch easily from BF because they genujinely think that formula is "close" to breastmilk or that the risks are not worth worrying about
I happen to disagree. I think everyone deserves to know the truth about it so that they can make an informed decision

so hearing the bad sides of formula may be unpalatable to some, that doesn't mean we shouldn't know about them and be able to think through our decisions more carefully

I kind of (and only vaguely) take issue with the statement that some women "can't" breastfeed.
we know that physiologically the vast majority of women can breastfeed... something is going wrong along the way. it isn't their fault, but perpetuating the myth that women cannot breastfeed is unhelpful and patronising

"wahhh you're making me feel guilty"

Just gets worse .

oh foxinsocks god no, obviously women don't create the problems, as in make them up! its just so sad, as toddlerwrangler says about the vulnerable mums on the FF thread, that we cannot sort it out in this country. if the root problem is the lack of support, why the bloody hell doesn't the government do something about it? people everywhere are trying desperately to help bfing mums, but for some reason, a massive % still give up at the one or two week mark, which is just stoopid! (not the women, but those around them who are meant to help them.) i just find it so frustrating.

anyway, no harm done foxinsocks

Don't like the new thread title much better.

I knew all the facts, all of them, but I did not get the support I required and I fell apart both physically and emotionally.

What has been said on here time and time again is it's support that is needed not constant debates like this these which achieve nothing.

why don't you do a bit of research or wider reading SGB and find out

KnittingRocks are you talking about in hospital or at home?

so... no-one is allowed a debate, because we all know we need better support?

you're missing the point.

the research is suggesting that formula fed pre-term babies are more likely to get NEC, and to die from it.
no, it isn't the only issue, but it is a big one

I think that's a huge problem, and I wished to discuss it.

clearly a lot of people think I went about it the wrong way, but as I say, I was shocked when I read it, and posted it whilst simultaneously searching for the original article so that I could have a proper discussion about it.

I guess I should have waited til I found that and then started it, but I digress

and how do you suggest we support people if they don't know all the facts?

I certainly didn't make an informed choice to give up breastfeeding my first baby. I didn't know all the risks that formula carries. If I had then perhaps I would have persevered and found more help instead of feeling pressured to just give in and use formula.

I regret that so often. I would say it's my biggest regret so far in my parenting life

"In the past, breastfeeding in traditional Aboriginal communities, and indeed all communities, was essential for the survival of the infant and usually continued for several years. (6,7) Breastfeeding was almost universal, but where it was not possible for any reason, another female relative within the group would feed the infant. Some evidence on breastfeeding practice in precontact times and during the nineteenth century and early twentieth century is available from ethnographic reports. Sellen has collected information on the infant feeding practices of 131 ethnic groups from non-industrialised societies, including several Aboriginal societies. (8) His review concluded that breastfeeding was universal and continued for an average period of 29 months."

from here: goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5447503/Breastfeeding-by-Aboriginal-mothers-in.html

But my point is - you didn't have all he facts before you made your post, did you?

Which takes me back to people being so despperate to push the BM message they take as gospal every pro BM 'fact' they find.

RubyBuckleberry - sorry, me being Dim, but what point are you using that quote to support?

no, i didn't have all the facts.... which is why i was simultaneously searching for the article.

if you feel that i presented it as "fact" or if i came across as believing it 100% unquestioningly then I am sorry. That simply the case

SGM said he/she doubted that breastfeeding was universal in some communities. i was saying that in some aboriginal communities (the ones that haven't been infiltrated by the formula companies probably - sorry riven!) everyone breastfed.