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Infant feeding

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Risks of Formula feeding on pre-term infants

154 replies

thisisyesterday · 06/01/2011 17:21

how scary is that?

i read a blog which mentioned it here

it was in a piece published by the Journal of Pediatrics, so something to take seriously I think.
makes me feel so :-(

OP posts:
sarah293 · 06/01/2011 18:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

tiktok · 06/01/2011 18:31

battleship, you said "I still struggle with the leap to assuming that it is the formula feeding that has led to these deaths. There are so many complicating factors - espeiclaly with pre-term babies."

Exactly - this is why you cannot point to any individual pre-term infant death and say 'formula feeding caused this'.

So what you do with the numbers is this: you get a large number of pre-term infant death statistics - lets say, oh, 10,000. In a big number like that you'll have a range of risk factors which we already know contribute to infant deaths - gestational age of the baby, degree of growth retardation, use of drugs by the mother and so on. And you isolate only one factor - whether these babies had breastmilk. Lets say you find 6,000 of them had breastmilk, and 4,000 of them did not. You find that 60 of the breastfed babies died, and 80 of the ff babies died. If the risk was the same, you'd expect 40 of the formula fed babies to die - but instead, you have 80, and that means 40 excess deaths.

(Some studies may control for whether very prem babies are more or less likely to receive breastmilk, whether growth retarded babies are more or less likely to receive breastmilk as well - to make sure it really is the feeding method that makes the difference.)

In these 40 excess deaths, no one would be able to say 'if this particular baby was breastfed, he would have lived* - but we can say, if those 4000 babies who were formula fed were breastfed, only 40 of them would have died.

wigglesrock · 06/01/2011 18:32

thisisyesterday but that's the point posters are trying to make here. FF doesn't significantly increase the the risk of babies dying. The statistics can be "skewed" because more babies that suffer from conditions that can kill them are formula fed. Again the formula feeding doesn't kill them, the actual cause of death is pneumonia, pre-term conditions.

Earthakitten · 06/01/2011 18:33

OP, what a hysterical thread title from someone who really can't understand the research. Do you write for the Daily Mail perchance?

sarah293 · 06/01/2011 18:33

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goingroundthebend4 · 06/01/2011 18:35

Yes but unless those babys had the exact same condtions other than being pre term how can you say whether if they were bf rather than ff

usualsuspect · 06/01/2011 18:36

What a horrible thread title ..fucking way to make some mums feel guilty

goingroundthebend4 · 06/01/2011 18:36

That if they were bf rather than ff they might have survived do you know just how heartless that sounds how many women could end up beating themselves up emtionally about it

Earthakitten · 06/01/2011 18:39

People on here bang on and on and on about how this that and the other undermines breastfeeding.

But I don't think they realise that shouting this sort of stuff also damages the potential for people to breastfeed because it undermines the ACTUAL reasons that breastfeeding is superior and bandies around hysterical bollocks. Then people start to wonder if it's ALL bollocks...

God job OP.

seeker · 06/01/2011 18:39

Please get this thread pulled, OP and post again with a less sensationalist and ill thought out title.

goingroundthebend4 · 06/01/2011 18:40

Because I got so much grief everytime dd was I'll as a baby that if I bf her she would have immunity not been so ill.

Was answers with a when your a dr and you know all about my daughter not having functioning immune system(she can't make antibodys and would not been able to receive any even if been bf) then come talk to me otherwise shove your head up your backside

tiktok · 06/01/2011 18:41

goingroundthebend - I'm sorry, I was trying to explain the statistics, and why we are not talking about identifying a cause of death in individual babies. I don't know how else to put it - there are people who would be unnecessarily distressed if they don't understand the stats, and I'm trying to remove that....it's virtually impossible when talking about babies dying, though :(

I don't want to make anyone feel bad or upset - I am not being insensitive about this at all.

thisisyesterday · 06/01/2011 18:42

well said tiktok!

the last few posters would do well to read your replies on here which explain it better than i ever could!

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thisisyesterday · 06/01/2011 18:43

goingroundthebend have you read all of tiktoks explanations?

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tiktok · 06/01/2011 18:44

seeker - I agree, it should be pulled.

I've done my best to explain the stats and I have still pissed someone off for being heartless :(

It's interesting to discuss these issues, but not with an incendiary title - and the bald facts, unexplained, are incendiary.

thisisyesterday - read the original paper and then post again with some understanding.

tiktok · 06/01/2011 18:46

Sorry, thisisyesterday, did not mean to tell you off! I meant, literally, read the paper and understand it, and then post again...it would be better I think, and less upsetting to people.

thisisyesterday · 06/01/2011 18:47

i am understanding it. my brain is slow these days.

you've explained it well tiktok

i have asked mumsnet to change the title

OP posts:
tiktok · 06/01/2011 18:47

wigglesrock - you said "The statistics can be "skewed" because more babies that suffer from conditions that can kill them are formula fed."

This is true - but good studies control for this, so you get a proper assessment.

goingroundthebend4 · 06/01/2011 18:51

Tiktok

I have read them but I'm pointing out there is no way you can isolate it down to the only differences being if they was or was not bf .By the simple point that no two babys will ever have the sane problems identical to the last bit

prem babys are not a exact science

tiktok · 06/01/2011 18:58

goingroundthebend (now I am going where you are going!!!) - I know you cannot claim two babies are identical down to the last aspect, and this is why no one can point to an individual baby and say 'this baby would not have died if he had been breastfed'. I know prem babies are not an exact science.

I am trying to explain that we are talking statistically and the 'excess mortality' is a statistical concept, not a roster of individual babies.

mousesma · 06/01/2011 18:58

Agree this thread needs to be pulled.

It is interesting that there seems to be excess deaths in FF babies and it is perhaps worthy of further discussion but your title is sensationalist and wholly inaccurate.

As many posters have said it is impossible to link the death of any individual baby to FF and to suggest overwise is ill considered.

thisisyesterday · 06/01/2011 19:03

mousema, if you read, I have asked MN to change the title (and i did apologise for it further down). hopefully that'll happen somewhen this evening if someone is around

OP posts:
McDreamy · 06/01/2011 19:06
Sad
bibbitybobbityhat · 06/01/2011 19:12

???

Saw the thread title and immediately thought it must be from a nutcase troll or journo trying to provoke a reaction.

Not a long-standing Mumsnet member who surely, ffs, is aware of the damage such a provocative title could cause?

As a breastfeeder myself I am embarrassed to be associated with some of the insensitive, militant and frankly quite bonkers postings from the more vocal and extreme pro-breastfeeders on this site.

mousesma · 06/01/2011 19:12

I did read that but I think you really might be better to scrap the whole thread and start again.

Swipe left for the next trending thread