Trouble getting nipple far enough back in mouth

[firstimemum]

Hi,

My baby is 6 days old and despite it looking so easy at NCT and NHS breastfeeding classes, I have been in a world of pain with breastfeeding, which has already brought me to tears even this early on.

I cant get my son to take my nipple far enough back in his mouth. Despite trying my very best, the nipple ends up too far forward in his mouth and gets badly chewed by his hard front palate. Both nipples have had the tops taken off them causing them to have a wet yellowy crust after feeding and have bled several times. Putting my son on is agony.

I am a red-head with very pale areole, so cant see how much of it he has in his mouth. Apparently my colouring means that breastfeeding is likely to be more painful than for those with darker colouring, but I dont think that this can account for the pain I am feeling.

I also have large breasts (DD in pre-pregnancy) so cant see if his lower lip is turned back like it should be when he is feeding. Though when I poke around for a look it is not turned back in the way it should be.

I cant see what I am doing wrong and have had midwife help to no avail. I have been trying to do everything I am supposed to do: nipple to nose, hold his neck rather than higher up his head, wait for a wide mouth and put baby to breast rather than the other way around, football hold for larger breasted women, but still the nipples are getting ripped apart.

I'm very upset because at what should be such a happy time I am feeling low because of the pain and because my son seems to be getting frustrated with me. Its having a terrible effect on my little family because my husband can see how upset I am getting, my son is getting frustrated with me and is not feeding properly causing him to cry alot.

Are there are any mums in the Clapham/Battersea area that I could watch feed to see what I am doing wrong??

Please, please ring one of the breastfeeding helplines :

NCT Breastfeeding line 0870 444 8708
Breastfeeding Network 0870 900 8787
La Leche 0845 120 2918
Association of Breastfeeding Mothers 0870 401 7711

One of them may very well have a bfeeding counsellor who will come and watch you feed. And post here for help - congratulations on the birth of your DS - and remember, you can do this, given the right support!

Ouch, that sounds really painful. Have you tried bringing him on to your breast fast and firmly? I used to find ds's mouth would start closing if I didn't do it like that. It was recommended to me by a bf counsellor when I was pg.

Do you have any NCT bumps and babies type things or bf support groups you could go to? Your HV should be able to recommend them if your MW doesn't know any.

sorry, do what HunkerMunker said and ring a bf counsellor. The bf cafes etc are more for when you're up and running with it.

no they aren't!!! sorry to disagree but i went along to a breastfeeding cafe when i was having problems with ds
they had health visitors and bf counsellors from la leche there. when i went in they asked me if i had come because of a specific problem with bf and i filled outa form
they then took me to a private room so they could watch me feed and give me some pointers.
VERY helpful

I've found getting in contact with a counsellor over the last few days really difficult. Unfortunatly when I was in hospital the two councellors were away sick and on holidays. La Leche didnt answer the phone or respond to my message and my NCT counsellor who gave us an ante natal bf class is uncontactable. I thought that hiring a private bf mw would be easy, but that has not been my experience.

I've got a midwife and student midwife from my midwife practice coming around to visit me tomorrow, so hopefully they will be able to help me more. I'll see how that goes and if I am still not getting the hang of it I'll try again to see someone privately. Can anyone recommend anyone good in my area (Clapham/Battersea/Balham area of Central London).

thanks for responding so quickly. Its a real comfort when feeling so alone to get 6 rapid helpful responses!

CarolinaMoon, what are NCT bumps and babies?
Thanks for the tip about being fast and firm. Perhaps I am being to hestitant and slow and gentle with him because I am not confident handling such a young baby and dont want to be too rough with him.

There are some links with video clips of breastfeeding which might help you with your technique - I'll see if I can find them and post on the thread again. Just posting now so you know I'm looking.

This is the link to the thread that the links are posted on - I found it quicker than I thought I might!

Good luck with it - and do post again, there's usually someone around to help xxxxxx

Hello

Balham Heath Centre runs a bf clinic - it is on Thurs morning
The counsellor from the Clapham NCT is Frances - I assume you have tried her - if not CAT me and I will send you her number

Just found my bit of paper -other clinics - on Friday morning Doddington Health Centre, Battersea Park Rd or Tuesday Brocklebank Health Centre has a clinic - near Garratt Lane Sainsburys

They are all run by the BF lady from St Georges

congratulations on your baby!

i had similar probs - it will be fine so long as you get some help and persevere. it is so upsetting though, i was in despair for a while. get some lansinoh cream it will help to soothe, i really would have given up without that. also, if you're not too leaky, these really helped or just order hydrogel dressings from boots.

Firsttimemum - you've probably seen this already, but this is the Clapham NCT branch website . I think their Bumps and Babes- type thing is under "Playgroups" - it looks like that includes drop-in groups you can take babies along to. Bumps and Babes groups are just drop-in sessions for pregnant woman and parents with babies where you can meet other new mums, but it looks like Clapham NCT doesn't use that name.

Can I go to a St Georges bf class if I had my baby at St Thomas' and dont live in the Wandworth borough (live about 2 streets away from it, which is frustrating)?

I rang to go the Balham clinic this morning (assuming the above wasnt going to be a problem), but they were all booked up, but shall persevere and try the other ones you mentioned. Thanks very much for the tips.

Also, thanks for the Hydrogel tip. I have been using Kamillosan but will try the gel pads too for extra comfort.

Its so nice to chat to other people about these things.

Are there any postnatal groups that meet in the Clapham area? I've noticed lots of mothers around my area, but apart from a few people in my NCT group, none of whom I know very well yet, I dont know any other mothers in my area and would love to meet others, especially when my husband goes back to work in a week's time.

I find applying Kamilosan after every feed useful. I can't get DS to latch at all and had to resort to formula for a while am now exclusivley expressing and having to top up with formula ti;; I can express enough to keep him happy and he is a very hungry baby. I am expressing every two hours and am feeling a little tender myself. Hope you can get the help you need. Don't beat yourself up though because that will make you even more stressed and you need to be calm and relaxed for the whole process to work properly.

just off to feed again and just had a small glass of red wine to help relax and take my mind off the agony ...

Thanks for the links hunkermunker. Shall look at those when I've finished the feed.

xx

firstimemum

congratulations
i had very sore, cracked nipples for the first two weeks of bf and felt from all the advice that i was in the wrong position with baby and i was doing something wrong, i really feel now that my nipples were just getting used to it! i kno weveryone is different but i know how you are feeling, i felt it was all my fault and was very upset, thought about giving up
please perservere and try lansinol, it really helped for me
i hope this helps a bit
good luck

I doubt any of the clinics will turn you away

Other option is to call the ward at St Thomas' - they should have details of any other bf clinics available

The Clapham NCT Pitter Patter groups are good for meeting people. Just turn up, you don't need to be an NCT member
Your health visitor may also run a postnatal group where you can meet people

Also, if you're using a cream like Kamillosan, make very sure that it's all off your nipples before you try latching the baby. I don't say this because Kamillosan's harmful for the baby (it's not at all), but because it can make their mouths very slidey and prevent them getting a good latch - I know this was definitely the case when I was first feeding DS. Especially when you're all leaky with milk anyway - it's a messy business to begin with, this breastfeeding business!

Also, try expressing a little milk and leaving it to air-dry on your nipples after feeds, then applying Kamillosan.

And no bfeeding support centre will turn away a bfeeding mother who's having problems - and if they do, tell us and we'll go and bite them for you.

Congratulations on persevering firstimemum. I reckon I ground the top off one of my teeth, it hurt so much to bf ds1 at first. I felt/found that my nipples weren't long enough like you say and because ds1 wasn't latching on properly he wasn't 'expanding' them, was chewing away at the ends and incredibly painful every feed. A MW reluctantly suggested I try nipple shields - and ds latched on and sort of pulled my nipples into the right shape - like a vacuum effect! Could then get nipples sorted out (scabs etc!) and then wean myself off nipple shields. Bit controversial though, most people seem to think nipple shields are the spawn of the devil.

Good luck!

I'm having a hard time finding the right sorts of clinics near you. (My sketchy knowledge of south of the river geography isn't helping!) The Breastfeeding Network only seems to work north of the river, too.

I think the best thing to do would be to contact the other BF support groups (NCT, ABM, LLL) and see which of them best covers your area. And then call a support line.

Best to do it tomorrow morning, so you can (hopefully) get this sorted before the weekend.

Congratulations on your new baby, and for chosing to breastfeed.

ftm,nowhere near London but just want to add my support.A lot of us have had a rough time in the first few weeks.Follow up each and every one of the leads given here. There is plenty of support but you just have to seek it out.

BTW,a glass or two of wine is an excellent remedy for some of those early difficulties.

Oh yeah, if you think the problem may be flattish nipples, you could try expressing a tiny bit before each feed to pull your nipples up into shape. Same effect as nipple shields, but less hassle. Over time, your nipples will change shape and your baby will adjust.

(Nipple shields can help, but they do generally reduce supply.)

congratulations

a lot of what you are saying sounds familiar to me. my dd is now 17 weeks and all is well.

i had little help at hospital and for the first 5 days she had a bottle, we were still in hospital due to complications. but i really wanted to breastfeed.
she would not feed from one breast for nearly 2 months.

i have big breasts too and was told my nipples were too flat. i was also told that if i was doing it correctly it would not hurt-not true.
i am no expert but i can tell you what i did/ do

i used a pump to express milk that helped the nipple situation and i could give her my milk from the breast she refused. but i still put her there at the end of feeds to have a go.

i use a support/ feeding pillow and instead of getting the child across the front i got her under the arm sort of rugby style if you know what i mean.
its just more confortable.

its important to be calm because that will encourage milk flow but its the hardest thing to do when you feel you doing it wrong. try to trust yourself. if possible ask for support and encouragement from people near you

from my experience it hurt for about 2 weeks or so, and yes sometimes i had tears in my eyes and yes it will pass and yes its worth persisting although god knows there were times when i thought i would just give up.

i live in richmond if any help.

but do contact the orgs mentioned. dont let people tell you you cant do it.

Well, that feed didnt go very well either and I take him off after 15 minutes. The nipple is stinging like hell and is red raw. Have ended up in tears and husband having to calm me down. There is no way I can feed off either nipple again tonight so have decided to express with Medela machine for 20 minute to use for the next feed.

This is really having a negative effect on my relationship with my new baby and I think the relationship is more important than him feeding from my breast. If I express he will still be getting my milk, which is the most important thing, and I can cuddle him and bond while I am doing it, rather than what I am doing now which is hating and dreading feeding times. I know that expressing milk will create new problems, like not knowing how much milk he will want, but from where I stand right now, I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

Anyway, as a last ditch attempt I am going to try and get in touch with the bf midwife at St Thomas' who was away when I was in the hospital to see if she can sort out my problems. I'll also try the St Georges' ones some of you mentioned in my area.

Thanks to all who responded to me tonight!

x

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time, FTM

Expressing will give your nipples a bit of a break - tomorrow, perhaps try some nipple shields (they can cause supply problems as the breast's not stimulated in the same way to produce milk, but they may very well give your nipples enough of a chance to heal so that you only need to use them for a fairly short time).

Try the healing ideas from this thread too.

And do try to see someone who knows about breastfeeding.

Above all else, do what's right for you and your baby. But don't just think sod it all - think carefully about whether or not you'll regret stopping bfeeding in a few months' time - I'm not saying that to make you feel guilty, just to save you potential heartache in the future.

The problems you are having now seem like they are insurmountable, but with the right support, they aren't. But it's totally up to you - I really am not trying to push you into something you don't want to do.

Just don't make the decision in the middle of the night - wait till morning when everything seems easier. The middle of the night is always a strange time for decision-making and I find it's best avoided!

Will be thinking of you. Get DH to give you a big hug (not too squeezy though, for the sake of your nipples!) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx