Trouble getting nipple far enough back in mouth

[firstimemum]

Hi,

My baby is 6 days old and despite it looking so easy at NCT and NHS breastfeeding classes, I have been in a world of pain with breastfeeding, which has already brought me to tears even this early on.

I cant get my son to take my nipple far enough back in his mouth. Despite trying my very best, the nipple ends up too far forward in his mouth and gets badly chewed by his hard front palate. Both nipples have had the tops taken off them causing them to have a wet yellowy crust after feeding and have bled several times. Putting my son on is agony.

I am a red-head with very pale areole, so cant see how much of it he has in his mouth. Apparently my colouring means that breastfeeding is likely to be more painful than for those with darker colouring, but I dont think that this can account for the pain I am feeling.

I also have large breasts (DD in pre-pregnancy) so cant see if his lower lip is turned back like it should be when he is feeding. Though when I poke around for a look it is not turned back in the way it should be.

I cant see what I am doing wrong and have had midwife help to no avail. I have been trying to do everything I am supposed to do: nipple to nose, hold his neck rather than higher up his head, wait for a wide mouth and put baby to breast rather than the other way around, football hold for larger breasted women, but still the nipples are getting ripped apart.

I'm very upset because at what should be such a happy time I am feeling low because of the pain and because my son seems to be getting frustrated with me. Its having a terrible effect on my little family because my husband can see how upset I am getting, my son is getting frustrated with me and is not feeding properly causing him to cry alot.

Are there are any mums in the Clapham/Battersea area that I could watch feed to see what I am doing wrong??

Sleep well FTM, as much as you can with a little one

It can get better, I found the first 6 weeks of breastfeeding terrible, in tears, begging DH to get formula etc but now DS is 7mths and still on the boob.
You could also try calling the NCT bf teacher again - she may have just been out before

If you need support I am only in Balham

This is firstimemum's DH (as firstimemum is currently expressing some milk in the same room). Thanks for all the supportive responses. Hunkermunker and jamiesam, the nipple shields are a very good suggestion - as even if she is going to continue breastfeeding, her nipples really need break so they have a chance to heal from all the damage (then she could continue with the correct latching technique). Jamiesam, we saw that you had tried these and they enabled you to get this break and get back on track. What brand were these? Was there much difficulty in getting your DS1 back onto the unshielded nipple?

Hi firsttimemum - just seen your post on the Sept Post Natal thread.

YOU ARE NOT ALONE!! BF can be very difficult and painful. The shock is that no one tells you before hand. What you need is a bf counsellor. Either to visit you, or you to visit them.

My ds (now 2.5yo) never latched properly despite me doing all the "right" things. In the end I ended up topping up with formula for 7 months until he self-weaned off the breast. I was very disappointed not to bf exclusively, but he was 3 weeks early and never learned how to latch properly.

Have you tried Lansinoh Ointment for the cracked/sore nipples? Otherwise, putting breast milk on them (as often as you remember) and allowing them to dry in the air, and expose them to a bit of sun might help.

Do not beat yourself up about this. It is not an instinctive thing, and I hardly know any mothers who have not had problems - especially with the first baby.

Also, remember that you've given your baby collostrum in the first few days and that is the most important part of the b.milk to boost his immune system.

The best help you can get is for someone knowledgable to see how you feed to help you correct the latching. (Plus the break that nipple shields will give you)

Your local La Leche Legue might also be able to help.

The difficulties your are having are VERY COMMON. This does not mean that you are a failure. Please do not think that.

I applaud you for keeping going in such difficult circumstances! I hope that things work out well for you and that you are able to continue with bf. If you are not able to, then at least you will know that you give it your best shot.

Thanks, I just fed with expressed milk and he guzzled what I thought would last 2 feedings quickly (even using the slowest flow teat) and now having to express again for the 6/7am feed. I can see that this method is r eally going to muck around with my supply, so in the morning as soon as shops open I am going to buy set of nipple protectors and feed that way instead.

Can anyone recommend what sort is best? I am looking on the internet for information, but if anyone on this thread has used them could you please let me know.

thanks very much

I used avent ones. They're called Nipple Shields, I think Sainsbury stocks them. (I don't think anyone else makes them.)

Is there any chance you can cup feed him, rather than bottle feed, the expressed milk? That's less likely to cause more problems for you. Here's a link on cup feeding. We did cup feeding with DS1, and it worked very well.

(With a bottle, you don't have to have a good latch, so it encourages him to feed wrongly, IYSWIM. Alternatively, some people swear by making sure the baby's got a good open mouth for latching before putting the bottle in. I don't know anything about that technique, though.)

Not used them myself although I did buy some avent ones

I think Boots do their own brand ones

Mothercare should also stock them

For what it's worth, even with the help of a midwife for hours, baby wouldn't latch on to my flat nipples so I used Avent nipple shields.

I tried for weeks to try and get him to do it without then kind of gave up - wasn't too bothered as baby was happy and putting on between 1/2 and 1 pound every week.

LO is 12 weeks now and I tried again and it worked! Unfortunately I don't think his technique is too good and he is not emptying the breast when the flow goes slow so maybe I should visit a counsellor again as boobs have felt hot for last 2 days and am worried about mastitis.

GOOD LUCK and don't let anyone try to make you do something that you don't want to do. I know from experience that there is NOTHING worse and more lonely than unhappy breast feeding! I am all for what is best for the mother first because a happy mother means a happy baby.

Hello,

Just had the most relaxing and productive feed session since Eliot was born 7 days ago. Rushed out first thing this morning when the shops opened and bought some Avent nipple shields and used those, making sure I had the latch as good as possible. He looked like he was latched on properly - I think the slight tackiness of the shield helped pull his bottom lip down and hold it there.

I know the shield is scorned by mwives, but sometimes we have to settle for less than perfection I think. At least my nipple is less sore today.

So, now having a nice salmon bagel and cup of tea with dh.

Going to a breast feeding session (babycafe) this afternoon and then got the mw coming over to check the latching again, so hopefully will get this sorted.

Oh, I'm glad things are going better.

Shields can help. We used them for three months. Without them (and without very good bf support), I probably would have bottlefed DS1.

The downside of shields is:

• you can get stuck on them. We had to use shields for three months. This means sterlising them (I think you have to?) and carrying them around in a little box. Makes it harder to bf in public discreetly.
• they aren't good for supply. I'm pretty sure DS1 would have been fatter in his first three months if he'd been BF directly. When we stopped using them, finally, he got fatter pretty much right away.

If using shields is sorting out the latch, the baby is getting milk, and you're not in so much pain, well, despite the downsides, hurrray!

oh good, so pleased is going better well done.

more ouch advice.... i took a paracetamol before feeds when it was bad - and wine of course. also found is crucial not to let nipples dry out as tearing scab was what really really hurt, but don't get too soggy either or will slow healing.

here is the most amazingly useful site, has loads of info on all aspects of bf.

GREAT news about the relaxing feed firstimemum.

I used nipple shields for the first six weeks of my DD's life. They were recommended by my midwife in NZ.(I just used the ones my husband bought back from the chemist!) They are the reason I was able to successfully establish breastfeeding with her. As I become more relaxed and was able to place her correctly I stopped using them. I b/fed her until she was 14 months old.

There is the concern about reduced supply. However from my personal experience I found them WONDERFUL.

Feeling like you can't breastfeed properly is such a horrible, horrible feeling. It doesn't come naturally to all of us. I hope that you are able to get some useful and professional help soon.

so happy for you FTM
try noy to worry about what hv thinks, listen to all do what works for you.

you know when mine had been on bottles for first few days and would just not latch on i used a teat over my nipple to start off then mid feed tahe it away- it worked for me

hope things get better, good days bad days, worth it in the end. you seem to have your dh support that is really important.

Sorry to butt in on this thread but wanted to say well done for sticking with it, FTM! You go girl. Best bit of advice I got was from my GP - he said if you can survive the first two weeks then you've got it sorted. It hurt like hell to start with but I am convinced that as their little mouths grow it gets easier every day.

Still wish I'd known about nipple shields though! They sound fantastic...

Great news. Sorry I didn't see your posts last night.
If you're really worried about supply (and it can be a problem when you're using nipple shields) then try to pump both breasts after as many feeds as you can bear. I didn't find if painful, but often felt that by the time I'd fed ds (breast and whatever I'd got out at last pump..), pumped both breasts, sterilised nipple shield, bottle and pump, sat down - it was time to feed ds again! It might be all you do for a while - but oh the relief when you can put shield, pump and botttles away and solely bf!

Glad to hear the nipple shields are helping. I too had a bit of trouble and bleeding/scabbing at the start. I saw various midwives/bf counsellors who all agreed that my baby was latching fine. It was just the shape of my nipples (large & flat - very large boobs too!) that were causing the trouble. I used Lansinoh ointment all the time to heal them and always fed off the least sore one or expressed the feed. Once they healed, most or the soreness went too.

It may be that it was your babys latch in the first few days that did the damage but your nipples aren't getting a chance to heal.

Regarding getting the nipple far back, what I do is all wrong... but works... I put my boob to the baby (rugby ball hold) and th putt the skin back at the top of my boob so my nipplie is pointing upwards. When he opens his mouth, I put the areola below the nipple onto his bottom lip and then quickly flip the nipple in. Tricky to explain...

Hope you get through it. x

ftm,glad to hear things are better. My (fantastic) community m/w wasn't very keen on then but they helped me through a very trcky patch of about 10 days when I was a mental and physical wreck.
Every day that passes is a day nearer to cracking the tricky art of b/feeding.

Glad you found them useful and hope you have had more practical advice this afternoon. fwiw I used nipple shields for ds until he was more than a week old. Without them I doubt I would have continued to bf in those early days and was able to do so until he was 17 months old. Gradually I weaned him off them. One night I was just too tired to bother to fetch them and he suddenly latched on. Over the next day or so I used them on alternate feeds and would start a feed with them and then reattach him without. It built up his and my confidence so we were soon able to do without.

Well done for persevering thus far

I just logged on for the first time today and was really inspired to see so many positive responses back. I havent had time to read them through properly yet, as spent most of the day running about like a mad thing and now its time to feed again. Found out today that Eliot (my son) and I both have thrush - just what we need in addition to our problems with latching! So now we are both on treatment. I'm glad we found out though. Poor Eliot must have been feeling really uncomfortable and it explains his ocassional irritibility, especially when he is being put down for bed.

I'm keeping to the shields until my nipples heal and once that happens will try again without.

Anyway, despite all this difficulty in the first week of Eliot's life, he is the most gorgeous cutest little thing and dh and I are so in love with him.

will give your emails the attention they deserve tomorrow. And thanks, again.

Sorry to hear about the thrush - we've been through it too. In fact, we both still have it a bit - very hard to eradicate. I simply use our gels/creams to keep things 'manageable'.