Q and A with Mike Brady from Baby Milk Action

[RachelMumsnet]

We're inviting you to send in your questions to Mike Brady, Campaigns and Networking Coordinator at Baby Milk Action.

Mike graduated in Electrical and Electronic Engineering and has worked in Africa as an engineer and science teacher. At Baby Milk Action, he monitors the baby food industry and campaigns to hold them to account.

Baby Milk Action is a non-profit organisation which aims to save lives and to end the avoidable suffering caused by inappropriate infant feeding. It is the UK member of the International Baby Food Action Network (IBFAN), a network of over 200 citizens groups in more than 100 countries.

Baby Milk Action's slogan is: "Protecting breastfeeding - Protecting babies fed on formula". It is perhaps best known for promoting a boycott of Nestlé, but also works with national governments and international bodies on regulations and marketing standards.

Mike was seen earlier this year outside Nestlé (UK) HQ in the guise of [[http://info.babymilkaction.org/emailnestle
Mr. Henry Nastie]], explaining Nestlé's marketing practices.

Send your questions in to Mike before midday on Friday 9th December and we'll link through to his answers from this thread later the following week.

Would love to see Joan Wolf on here. Isn't she visiting the UK in March to promote book.

Giving MN time to contact and entice her for a webchat.

I third Joan Wolf.

Agree that Joan B Wolf would be great to have on. Thats the American academic and not the christian romance writer BTW!

Fibilou I'm not trying to pretend anything,why the aggression?

I think you are mistaking "disagreeing with MilaMae" with "aggression". I'm not the only person you have accused of being aggressive when that is far from true.

Ordering me not to try and "pretend" in an accusatory fashion when I posted a perfectly pleasant post and wasn't is aggressive. It's also not actually very nice and rude. If you want to disagree it is possible to do so in a more pleasant tone.

I also think if you did a survey and interviewed the huge maj of mothers who do ff I think you'd find plenty/most do have views/needs and could do with support.

I and others on here also think similarly towhat you have said here: "if you did a survey and interviewed the huge maj of mothers who do ff I think you'd find plenty/most do have views/needs and could do with support."

I think that your claim that some people who have espoused certain views on FF is incorrect but I know already that you disagree with this interpretation. All the more reason to bring on someone like Joan Wolf, like you say.

Mila, you mention views which 'often get shouted down for even being mentioned'. This is not the case - or is only the case if you equate 'countered' with 'being shouted down'.

You accused me of an aggressive tone. Do you also accuse people disagreeing with you, even mildly, of 'shouting you down'?

This sort of chip-on-shoulder reactionism does not help the debate at all.

Joan Wolf would be an interesting guest but I don't think she is widely known or read in the UK at all. I have come across her, but I think this is because I am an anorak in this sort of thing - I don't think I have seen her discussed much on UK websites.

Fibilou I don't quite know where that response came from. Mila was saying something entirely un controversial and you countered with that rather bizarre post.

Nobody is saying that FF are persecuted, unlike of course the poor underrepresented BF. All that is needed here is some perspective and some counter argument from someone who has studied the issue for many years.

Himalaya, there was a Sainsbury's own-brand formula a few years ago, but that's the only one I know of in the UK. It didn't last long. I guess it must have been a commercial decision to withdraw it.

There are own-brand formulas in the US - I think the chain store Target do it, as do Walmart, but I see with a bit of Googling only 4 per cent of ff parents use an own brand. That will make money in the US market, I suppose, 'cos it is so huge, but maybe not in the UK.

I wonder if there is a consumer resistance to buying a 'value' formula? Looks like it.

this generic brand in the US seems to be taking on the big players.

"Fibilou I don't quite know where that response came from. Mila was saying something entirely un controversial and you countered with that rather bizarre post."

Actually it came from the fact that I am just about sick and tired of women that use formula whinging on about how everyone criticises them for using formula. That they are judged by society. That they are constantly bombarded by breastfeeding everywhere. I am sick of it. Breastfeeding is not everywhere. Hardly anyone does it. I work in an office where there are lots of mothers, with a lot of children. I am the only one who has breastfed for more than about a week. I don't care about their reasons, I don't care whether they breastfeed or not. What I care about is women trying to make it sound as if it is FFing mothers that are berated by society.

Since when did a FFing mother have to worry about being thrown out of a cafe for feeding her baby ? Or counter arguments from family trying her to pressure her into stopping feeding ? Or read articles in the paper about how ffing is disgusting and should be hidden away in the loo (thanks GMTV).

Those of us who chose to BF a baby beyond anything more than about 2 months are constantly questioned about our choices, stared at and certainly in Real Life I don't feel as if I can talk about breastfeeding for fear of being labelled a"Nazi".

So when people come on here and whinge about feeling marginalised for FFing, along with the vast majority of the population, I just think "yeah, right".

I will rephrase the end of that

So when people come on here and whinge about feeling marginalised for FFing,despite the fact that 97% of English babies are not exclusively BF beyond (I think) 3 months; I just think "yeah, right".

and my post was in reference to Milas rather "poor me" attitude throughout the whole thread, not one post in particular

Whilst I have disagreed with some of MilaMae's posts on here and the tone of some of them I fail to see how her posts led to Fibilou's comment "UK breastfeeding rates show that 65% of babies are getting formula at only 1 week old. Don't try to pretend you are in some sort of persecuted minority."

You don't get to decide how someone feels!

Clearly FF is not the minority in real life -but I think that it is a much smaller %age who FF on MN and definitely on this section of MN!

Who is there supporting the needs/views of formula feeding mothers?

Answer - basically no one!

Certainly not the FF companies and whilst I support BMA I can see that their obviously (justifiably) pro-BF stance makes it difficult for FF mothers to engage with them.

HCP know fuck-all about formula and give no advice/wrong advice.

Whilst in certain sectors of society FF may be completely normal and done without comment from others I feel a bit like a "persecuted minority" on MN.

All the "of course I did what was best for my baby" talk can be immensely dispiriting and I am sure that many BF mums here think oh well "at least I suceeded etc".

Unless you have wanted to FF but not been able to then you cannot fully empathise.

I would strongly encourage people to visit the below blog - especially the weekly stories on a Friday for a true insight into FFing.

MilaMae - have you seen fearlessformulafeeder.blogspot.com/?

This lady is writing a book about formula so when that's out she might be a good canditate for a Q&A/webchat.

I certainly feel that BFing mothers judge and look down on FFing mothers.

There is no need for this. If you are passionate about BF - then become a peer supporter/join BMA/lobby for more support for BFing but strive to make sure you don't make FFing mums feel bad.

I felt very marginalised by society because of FF despite FF being more common.

"Certainly not the FF companies and whilst I support BMA I can see that their obviously (justifiably) pro-BF stance makes it difficult for FF mothers to engage with them.

HCP know fuck-all about formula and give no advice/wrong advice."

Here here.

And I could suggest that a couple of people's time would be better spent lobbying the FF companies and the NHS to provide information on FF to mothers rather than advertorials and meaningless platitudes.

"advertorials" and "meaningless platitudes" by a couple of people I guess you mean me. What exactly in my posts have warranted that?

To question things and take exception to being told f should be sold in supermarkets and is comparable to McDonalds in a polite,civil way isn't exactly a crime.

What exactly is wrong with my tone? I haven't tried to bully anybody off here unlike posts that have been directed at me.

It seems to be care blanche for hurtful things to be said about f. Nobody has said anything unkind about bf on here yet taking exception to the above and suggesting ff need support is somehow wrong.

The hypocrisy is staggering.

no, I didn''t mean you however if you are keen to let the hat fit, I cannot stop you from doing that. you are not a 'couple of people'. and if I wanted to include you it would be a number more than 2. I am not just talking about people on this thread as it is more than 2 people on MN who seem to think that ppsters who advocate for ethical marketing of formula are instead advocating the banning of formula or some such nonsense.

I certainly feel that BFing mothers judge and look down on FFing mothers.

tabouleh that's a bit of a sweeping statement isn't it?!

On another note, if BF mums find that HCPs know naff all about BF and FF mums find they know naff all about FF, what do they know about in terms of infant feeding?!

I think playing a game of 'who's the most oppressed, bf mothers or ff mothers?' is pointless.

As a culture, the West has taken on formula feeding and it is the norm - the vast majority of babies are formula fed at some point. There are powerful commercial interests that are very happy about this and who would not like it to change. At the same time, our culture clings to the notion that bf is probably quite a good thing - but not with babies older than [insert arbitrary age], not in places such as [insert arbitrary place], and no more often than [insert arbitrary frequency limit]. For these and other reasons, bf is actually quite a difficult thing to do for some women and babies.

But individual formula feeding women, even within a culture where ff is ubiquitous, do experience genuine feelings of deep sadness and resentment and disappointment. They suffer genuine tortures of longing to do this 'thing', through sometimes severe difficulties that even the 'experts' cannot seem to help them with.

They do feel oppressed and criticised and under-informed. They often feel the world is against them - even though most of the world (UK anyway) is ff too. Every time someone (like me) suggests formula is marketed unethically, they see it as a criticism of formula feeding and even a personal criticism of them as formula feeders. It isn't - but they feel it is.

The way breastfeeding/formula feeding is framed in the UK (and elsewhere) is you can feel criticised for breastfeeding too often/too old/too publicly, and yet feel other people are also against you if you formula feed.

I believe many of the negative feelings of formula feeding mothers come from within them, and not from breastfeeding supporters. But that does not mean these negative feelings are not real, and powerful.

Jesus that last post gave a whole new meaning to the word patronising.

Tiktok have you actually read the thread?

Nearly every ff on here is against unethical marketing of f.

You do not speak for ff mums so don't post paragraph after paragraph saying how we feel and why. We are all individuals with individual feelings and experiences thanks very much.

"I believe the negative feelings of ff mothers comes from within them not breast feeding supporters" what total utter rot.

Like most ff mums I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with formula far from it. If prepared and used carefully it's a good alternative to breast milk on which babies thrive-what's to feel negative about exactly? Some of us(by no means all) may have an issue with the way in which bf is taught(or not as the case may be) but that has zilch to do with other mothers or formula itself.

No most ff mums only have negative feelings over silly,silly posts such as those that have appeared on this thread suggesting it shouldn't be readily available in supermarkets and is akin to feeding a child McDonalds and needless over the top scaremongering.

For some reasons ff mums are supposed to suck such posts up without a whimper but if heaven forbid a bf mum experiences what she thinks is persecution(ie being ejected from a cafe which actually has happened to me as a ff mother) it's only right and proper that all hell lets loose.

FF mums aren't some voiceless, witless, lower class species. We are perfectly normal, intelligent women who can speak for ourselves and believe it or not don't actually slot neatly into your psychoanalysis.

I ask you do you do that with other sections of society,speak for them, decide how they think and why? I sincerely hope not.

OK I missed out "SOME" as in

I certainly feel that SOME BFing mothers judge and look down on FFing mothers.

Yep HCPs no nothing much about any method of infant feeding.

I seem to be a strange creature - had to FF but against FF marketing.

I suppose maybe there should be posters with info on BF and on FF?!

you have taken the mc.donalds analogy out of context.
it wasnt compared to feeding a child.

formula is only a good alternative if there is nothing else.
there is no good alternative to breastmilk.

sorry!

Mila, you think it's breastfeeding supporters who actually cause the sadness that some mothers feel when they formula feed without wanting to?

I was not speaking about all formula feeding mothers - clearly, there is a spectrum. But many mothers do have negative feelings about using formula as even a cursory read of mumsnet shows you.

"what's to feel negative about exactly?" - your words. And because you don't feel negative, you make the assumption that others don't, or shouldn't.

You over-react (you've now mentioned it 7 times...) to the one post with the mad idea, (later retracted) that formula should not be in sale in spermarkets and the McD analogy which the poster clearly explained, and an idea that people are bullying you and being aggressive and now you say I am being patronising, because I acknowledge that all of us can have bad feelings about infant feeding.

tab I have underestimated you. Your earlier post was spot on.

and mila rarely have I been patronised as much as when tiktok disagrees with me. It is an enlightening experience