It is impossible to overfeed a FF baby

[FunnysInTheGarden]

.....discuss.

In my experience it is. Unless you use enriched formula intended for prem babies. If you use normal formula, I would defy anyone to overfeed a FF baby.

What a frankly bizarre thread, but very interesting stuff so thank you!

Funnysinthegarden- I am wondering why you have started this thread. You weren't asking for advice, you were starting a discussion, but based on a previous thread it seems that you dislike it when anyone has a differing view to you. It would seem that you like to stir up a bit of controversy or maybe you like the attention.

"The trouble with this forum is that it is populated by folk who have an opinion about something they know nothing about."

I disagree with this statement. The majority of this forum is mothers (and mothers to be) who all have differing experiences and knowledge, and nobodys opinion should be disregarded as less valid. Some people come on here to get advice, some to give it.

In your experience it isn't possible to over feed a baby. Ok fine. But you asked for a differing point of view and tiktok provided it in the form of research.

I also object to your use of the term breastfeeding Nazi. I appreciate that you only repeated it after another poster mentioned it, but it is still highly offensive. Comparing mothers who are passionate about breastfeeding to a regime who practiced genocide is simply not on. How would you feel if we coined the term 'bottle feeding nazi' ?

For what it's worth tiktok, your tone is never patronising. Many people come on here for your advice, which I always feel is sensitively given.

:) poppydog

No, Funny, I did not ff my baby. In fact she has never drunk anything from a bottle. I didn't want to, the thought made me very uncomfortable, it was never an option for me.

My baby, my choice, happy mum, happy baby. Etc., etc.

That doesn't really change the fact that it is possible to overfeed a ff baby.

The fact that you or other posters did not is irrelevant.

Also, for someone who didn't bf their babies, you have a lot of opinions on the subject.

Parts of this discussion have made me want to hit my head against a wall.

The tendency to respond to empirical evidence with anecdote is rife on mumsnet, but rarely does it rile me as much as on this forum.

I think we need some kind of a protocol on question asking e.g.

"Is it 'possible' to overfeed a FF baby?" means does it sometimes happen for some babies. In this case, the evidence supports the premise that it does happen, and that it seems to happen more frequently with FF than BF babies. Posters on this thread have also suggested some feasible mechanisms by which it may happen.

"Did you find it possible to overfeed your FF baby?" asks posters to share their own experiences of FFing a baby.

Asking people to 'discuss' will invariably bring up replies of both kinds.

If we delineated questions more clearly, folks like Tiktok wouldn't go to the trouble of citing large peer-reviewed studies that have looked at many, many babies only to have their posts answered by posters declaring that their own FF baby was not overfed, therefore it is impossible.

< wonders whether it's too early in the day for a big gin and tonic >

Anecdote and shared experiences are great - they can often be a source of great interest and support to other mothers.

What they aren't, ever, and cannot, ever, be, is a means of disproving/proving anything - and people who say, as on this thread, and I quote, 'it's all rubbish!' because their experience and interpretation differs from the studies and observations (and, let it be said, in this case, differs from sheer common sense), make it hugely frustrating to continue a discussion :(

Add to that people who take the huff with even a polite post that actually adds to the 'discussion' asked for, but which does not follow the line the OP for some reason wants to take, and as NorthPole says, we end up irritated and exasperated.

Well, I do.

Though of course you'd never know it, from my unfailingly sunny disposition :)

I've been thinking about this (and ignoring the fact that OP seemed to have started this for the sake of being controversal sp?).

The issue of overfeeding is different from force feeding. Anyway I think it's just like adults, we can all easily eat a little more than we need without it being a massive struggle to force the food in. If we do it regularly we slowly become overweight, but at no point are we forcing ourselves to have the food. So I find the whole point of I can make my baby eat an unlimited amount (and they all have a cut off) a rather mute point.

I formula fed both of mine. DS was a slightly bigger/hungrier baby who would often throw up after a feed. so i thikn he probably took more than his stomach could handle. He'd easily take 6 - 7 ounces by 2mths of age. Whereas DD could happily get by with 2 -3 ounces and rarely finished a feed and could take an hour to drink what DS would have gulped down in minutes. Both were fed formula responsively/on demand. I never forced/ messed with the teats/added anything to the bottles/squeezed the milk in...

in aswere to teh qustion, it is possible of course.

DD fell down the centiles whereas DS went up them however.

But they are both healthy and normal weighted/lean children with a balanced diet

for me, the danger in obesity/health issues would lie more in v early weaning, adding cereal/rusk to a bottle/ cutting a teat open to make more milk pour in

overfeeding is definitely possible and once the stomach is stretched, the baby will want and take more mikl

it's not really a discussion,if you only want agreement though

The difference to me (I have EBF until 6 months each time and then FF until 1 year) is that when BF they have to work hard for more milk so unless they are really hungry they will not really bother. With formula even if they are full easy to drink the rest. Yes if they are really full they might throw up but they will not always.

As example with DS2, I BF at 10pm he feeds from both sides, and then from first side again etc,.... then once he has had enough (and seems full) he still gulps down 3oz bottle....

All mine have been 25% centile at 6 months and looked leanish then gone up a bit to 50% looking more podgy at 1 year old before dropping back to 25% by age 2-3.

Surely feeding a baby until they throw up counts as over feeding?

it is not deliberate though is it? DS would have a feed, and happily take it. i;d wind him, and sometimes he'd bring back part of his feed. not forcef eeding to the point of him vomiting. think there is a big difference

Difference between force-feeding and over-feeding though - I guess the problem with the bottle is it's easy to over feed without meaning to.

I'd like to know how to overfeed a ff baby, and I'd bloody get ds to eat a decent amount..

mrsGF you have obv not read any of my posts. I BF both of mine to 6 weeks and then FF. So yes I have BF both of my babies. I have opinions on both BF and FF. Come to that as someone who has only BF, how come you have an opinion on FF, its surely of no interest to you.

The issue which irritates me the most is that on an earlier thread there was a consensus that FF mothers did not need support or advice on FF. Just read the tin seemed to be the only advice FF mothers needed. However on this thread it is clear that FF do need advice on how not to overfeed their babies.

It's the double standards which irritates me the most. FF mothers are pilloried for FF and offered no advice in hospital or otherwise as to how to deal with these issues.

Surely FF mothers should be told that they should feed on demand - and yes it is entirely possible with FF babies - and not give more than their child needs. You would then end up with BF babies and FF babies both being fed sufficiently and not being overfed.

and poppydog10 very lame of you to quote me as saying BF Nazi, when I was repeating it as an example of a comment earlier in the thread. Very lame indeed

(Thanks, Thinnever).

Funny - I was the poster on this thread reporting the concerns that parents need support and help with ff. I have often said this on other threads. I am totally consistent about this - ff is not a simple thing to do 'well' or safely, and babies who are ff need to be fed well and safely, beyond the info on the tin.

There is the occasional mumsnet poster who does not understand this, but I would say usually there is a consensus that advice is needed - look at all the threads which show complete confusion about how to prepare powdered milk, for instance.

Maybe you could explain why you misread posts and you report consensuses that don't exist - these imaginery consensuses are what 'irritate' you 'the most'so they clearly have an effect.

ahhh the real reason comes out. Once again, most FF queries are solved by being given facts and rarely need to 1on1 suport BF requires.

Most people agreed that mothers should be given correct info on wards regarding FFeeding and given support when asking HCPs questions.

Also I missed the part where people were being slammed for FF

Funnys - did you actually read my post re 'breastfeeding Nazi'? I acknowledged that you repeated it after another poster. But the context in which you used it implied that you somewhat agreed with it. It is still offensive. I don't see how that makes me the lame one?

Fwiw I agree with you on the fact That ff mothers need guidance. Of course they do. My issue is that on here you tend to be inflammatory and get peoples backs up buy getting personal.

I will be very interested to see studies on overfeeding ff babies in 10 years time as I believe it was a generational thing and that the majority of ff mums nowadays know how wrong it is to push a baby to finish a bottle they don't want.
I think it's an attitude of the mother issue and not just a bottle issue (although easier to get a baby to take more from a bottle than breast apparently - my personal one baby experience tells me either is a nightmare and thank the lord for weaning..!).

Funny, I am very sorry that you feel so bad about something that you need to take out your anger on people like tiktok and Tabouleh, who are only ever giving out good, reasoned advice.

I am sure that together we will be able to come to terms with whatever it is that irks you.

I also observe that you have jumped down Tabouleh's throat on other threads when she said that ff mothers need advice on correct formula prep, so for all that you claim ff mothers need more guidance, you don't like it when that guidance does not tally exactly with whatever it was that you did.

My older three were formula fed and went from small at birth to being near the tops of the chart within a few months. They wouldn't take more than they wanted - they would refuse when full but they did put on weight very fast so maybe they were overfed.

My fourth baby is breastfed and was a similar weight for gestation ( two were a few weeks early but all were born pretty much on the 25 th line for the gestation they were). She has put on weight much more slowy ( to the point where i worry about her because she still feels so small compared to my others at a similar age. When she is weighed she is still pootling along the 25th line which makes me think maybe my older ones would have been smaller naturally than they were.

Having said that they are all slim now and in fact when my 5 year old was weighed she was once again you've guessed it on around the 25th line. So initital fast weight gain seem to have made very little long term impact on them.

a question to the knowledgable on here. Is doing breast compressions whilst BFing akin to trying to get a baby to finish a bottle? Both my DCs have been on the small side and fairly slow to gain weight. DD often gets sleepy whilst feeding or just seems to loll on the breast so I do breast compressions to encourage her to take more. Is this good practice or not?

Think some of this " discussion" is a bit silly- some babies will take more than they need some won't just as some adults will eat more than they need others won't. As a BF baby can continue to suckle without taking any more milk they are less likely (though not impossible) to over feed than a bottle fed one who just wants to suck but keeps getting milk. Seems common sense to me

but a FF baby won't keep sucking for comfort and get more milk than they intended to do. They will push the bottle away and they happily suck on a dummy until they sleep, or no longer need to suck.

My nan was a heavy smoker but did not die of lung cancer. Therefore all research linking smoking to cancer is, in my experience, rubbish.

discuss.......

In my experience it is possible to 'make' a bottle fed baby feed. My DD was prem and fed bottles of EBM. We were told to give her a certain amount. If she got sleepy during a feed we would twist the teat of the bottle to encourage her to suck. (and if she was really sleepy it just went down her tube).

I would assume that this means if a mum was really keen for her baby to finish a bottle then it would be possible to encourage the baby to take more than they need and therefore over feed the baby.

So whilst I'm sure all the posters on this thread stopped when they thought their babies had enough, I would say it is possible to over feed.