It is impossible to overfeed a FF baby

[FunnysInTheGarden]

.....discuss.

In my experience it is. Unless you use enriched formula intended for prem babies. If you use normal formula, I would defy anyone to overfeed a FF baby.

I have always demand FF my babies. I can't begin to comprehend how anyone could do otherwise.

Your baby will take as much milk as it needs, be it formula or breast.

If overfeeding babies means forcing down the last few ounces, then 'that is just silly' - to quote DS1.

I suppose you have to be in tune with your babies eating habits to feed them well, and I learnt that by BF my two for the first 6 weeks.

Who knows, interesting discussion anyway, 'BF nazis' apart

My dd was also a little fat blobby thing for ages.

People would ask me what sort of formula she was on, and then say things like:

"I thought breastfed babies were skinny!"

Well, no, not her.

She's a lot slimmer now that she's started moving around, but still has big wobbly fat thighs :)

PS: Nice to see that Funny is still around, refusing to understand simple concepts and convinced that the breastfeeding industry is out to get her, with their pesky "facts" and "research."

I think it's possible to overfeed a ff baby, if you're not paying attention to your baby, when they stop sucking as strongly and lose interest, take the teat out and see what happens. My mil always used to get ds to finish whatever was in the bottle, she was determined (thankfully she didn't get the chance to feed him very often)
You definitely can overfeed them if you're determined to do so.

Just to add, I never paid attention to the recommended amounts on the formula tub. Having had terrible problems with breastfeeding, I was very concious that there was a possibility of overfeeding and was very careful.

lolling at mrsGF harking back to older discussions which have fuck all to do with this one. You may note that I have not once mentioned BF.

Mind you, nice to be noticed

Funny - I think it will help you understand more if you take time to read the papers I cited.

You said "Your baby will take as much milk as it needs, be it formula or breast."

This is just not true as a generalisation. Some babies do take more than they need - and sometimes less.

"If overfeeding babies means forcing down the last few ounces, then 'that is just silly' - to quote DS1."

No. That is not what over-feeding means - or not only what over-feeding means.

Anyway....use your open mind to take in some new info!

It definitely depends on the baby and how determined the care giver is to over feed. Some babies will clamp their mouths shut and nothing will get through. Other babies are compliant little things and do what is wanted/expected. You see the same thing with spoon feeding. Ds was ff after a short time bf but he never would (still won't) do anything he doesn't 100% want to. He was a blw baby before such a thing existed because there was no way he would take a spoon. He drank his milk which was offered on demand and he dictated how much he took - which was anything from 3oz to 12oz in a sitting. But I have seen people push the dregs of a bottle on their baby while it pushes the bottle away and wriggles, clearly finished. I've heard mums say they made the holes in the teats bigger so their baby always finishes the bottle. I've heard mums say they lie their baby on changing mats and pour milk into their mouths when they're being stubborn and not feeding. Many of the mums I meet don't seem to get the concept of feeding on demand whether ff or bf. I've often heard talk of when the next feed is "due". But where I live is very traditional/old fashioned so my experience is not going to be able to be extrapolated to everyone/everywhere.

thanks tiktok just the usual patronising tone then?

I read the US papers you cited. I have no issue with their findings. All I was hoping to do was open up the discussion to other FF mothers.

Why the attack mode? I know we have disagreed before, but this was supposed to be a genuine discussion about whether of not you could over feed a FF baby.

Because it's you, and you never have a discussion.

You said "discuss", but the answer is "yes, it is possible to overfeed a ff baby." End of discussion, surely?

But no, it's you, so you instantly disagree with the research because it doesn't tally with your personal experience.

...again.

anyone?

I haven't disagreed with any research. MGF I think you have issues.

Anyway, let discuss. I think it is nigh on impossible to overfeed a FF baby, if you feed them on demand - how about you? Do you agree or not? All you have said is your, presumably BF, baby was on the large side and lost weight once she started to move around.

how do you do that colditz I am dying to do a pombear

Funny, you can't discuss something when it's been proven to be true. Yes, it is possible to overfeed a ff baby. You didn't overfeed yours. I struggle to see where the discussion could go from there.

Let's discuss whether the sky is blue or not instead.

And it's bear in square brackets.

Thusly:

Don't understand. Yes my skinny kids were bf and then ff and I was bf (and am 3 stone overweight but that's to do with eating too much cheese and not moving fast enough). When they didn't want any more of breast or formula there was nothing I could do to get them to have more. I still have that problem with DD2 who is a toddler with a taste for nothing but tangerines.

Is it possible to overfeed a bf baby? My neighbour's son is bf exclusively and he's a massive bloater.

So MGF how did you find FF your baby. Did you find that they took far more than they wanted?

The trouble with this forum is that it is populated by folk who have an opinion about something they know nothing about.

great way to end there Funny.

How ironic.

followed by a anyone?

Sorry but what a load of rubbish! You cant over feed a baby or they will throw up!

They are supposed to be fat, if your baby is not fat they are not in a good position to grow, and have no reserves should they get ill.

My baby is 98th centile for weight, he is solid. However so was his older brother, who is now a skinny 4 year old.

This is all rubbish!

redflag did you read the papers before making you're starkly definite judegement?

funny the problem was you asked in your OP was it possible. People stated a way it was possible, but then changed your discussion to say excluding those blah blah ....discuss.

As you should know from these threads it difficult to change your argument half way through and expect people have ignore the contradictory earlier ones. It makes people feel that you are not listening and taking in points.

I can say that when DD has EBM bottles she can double her intake in 24hrs if given unlimited amounts. She still feeds at same intervals as before, but does not throw it up. I very much doubt that she needs so much extra milk, so from personal experience I do think it's possible to overfeed a bottle fed baby.

Funny, I did not 'attack' you - not in any way at all.

The papers I cited including ones that made it clear it was more difficult to bottle feed on demand, and that this was an educational challenge to health promoters and HCPs, for the mothers they were supporting - so you saying that 'it is impossible to overfeed if you feed on demand' raises the question of how you know you are feeding on demand with a bottle. Like I said earlier, a baby may 'need' four ounces, manage to actually take five ounces, and then refuse point blank the sixth ounce....but he has still taken an ounce more than he actually needed.

The papers and the other literature are not (mainly) talking about force feeding, but the overall tendency, speaking generally and not individually at all, of bottle fed babies to be heavier than their bf counterparts, and for this to be one of the reasons for the tendency to increased obesity in older children and beyond.

This does not mean that all bottle fed children are destined to be obese - and it's a measure of the poor level of discussion you have started that I have to explain that!

This is really interesting, I haven't ever questioned the idea that I have seen a lot of bottle fed babies being encouraged to take the last bit of a bottle. Always assumed mum knew what they needed and as they were sleepy was making sure they got it. Can't believe I never thought that perhaps they just didn't need it.

I bf both my boys (ds2 still am as 9 weeks old) and I don't like the fact that you don't know how much they are taking but perhaps that's a good thing as you feel no pressure to encourage them to have more. Ds1 was huge, born on 75th centile and straight up to 98th. Had shocked comments from hv- what are you feeding him until I said bm and then they said ok that's fine, which i found difficult to understand. When I started weaning I was constantly told it was too much, even the first few weeks where it was literally bm and a few spoons of veg! Ds2 feeds much less andhas actually dropped a centile from birth so I agree there's a lot to do with the tendance of the baby to want to eat

Ds1 has slimmed down a lot and he really knows when he's had enough and if he's hungry he eats more. I have a tendency to overeat but was never forced to empty my plate as a child, wonder if I was encouraged to finish my bottle. W

My DD2 is fat - big cheeks and legs so enormous she can't crawl.

She is bf, although not exclusively anymore (9 mos). She has a massive appetite for solid food too. She has ebm at childminder mostly, but occasionally formula when I run out of my milk.

I do worry a little about overfeeding. It's the bottles presumably that are the issue, not the formula, is that right?

I have to have an operation next week so she will have to have formula for a few days. I really have no idea how much to give her. I suppose a few days won't matter.

How do you decide how much to give? How do you know when they're finished?

At the moment she tells me she's done by biting my nipple, but I think that's as much frustration that she's having to work harder for the milk.

So in conclusion - yes, it's possible to overfeed with bottles. In fact, this is a point of concern. It may be possible to overfeed with a breast too, but much more difficult. Is that about right?

One of the papers I cited found the same tendency to take more volumes of milk in bottle fed babies whether the milk was formula or expressed breastmilk, so it seems that it may be the method of delivery which leads to the tendency - it puts the bottle holder in control not just because they are actively putting the teat into the mouth (in a way which does not happen with breastfeeding - the baby has to draw the nipple into the mouth and is a more 'active' participant in that sense) but because the bottle holder sees the amount of milk and judges in a way a bf mother cannot how much the baby 'ought' to have.

With bf, a baby can still suck but controls the amount more, reducing the flow/let downs in a way which is more difficult with a bottle.

There are going to be more factors, which will vary with individuals. In fact, ff babies do need more calories because it takes more calories to metabolise the formula - so some of the 'extra' formula really is needed. Then we have the personality of the baby, of the mother, and other lifestyle and environmental issues.

The research shows that overweight/fat bf babies tend to lose this more easily than ff babies when they are more active. That may be a combination of lifestyle etc factors, too, in addition to the actual type of milk.

MoonUnit - I would agree with that, on the basis of what I have read and what I have seen.