using tap water for formula milk

[cheeky78]

Hi
my little one is over 6 months, do I still need to boil the tap water to mix the feeds?

err yes as formula is supposed to be added to water that is 70C to kill any bactira in the formula.

One of my friends was advised by their paediatrician that over 6 months, you don't need to boil it any more....

You don't need to boil it if you're just giving it as water, but miggril is right, formula isn't sterile and warm milk is the perfect conditions for bacteria to multiply so water for formula should still be boiled for any age.

Here's a link

www.babycentre.co.uk/baby/formula/boilingtapwaterexpert/

HTH

Maybe they meant that when you give a drink of just water then it doesn't need to be cooled boiled water anymore?

MigGril is definitely correct that it must still be boiled for mixing formula so that the watrer is over 70C to kill the bacteria in the non sterile formula.

x-post

OK, formula isn't sterile but nor is all the food that babies over 6 months put in their mouth (not to mention all the carpet fluff and soil) so why does formula still need to be sterilised?

plus alot of people I know don't reheat their bottles to over 70 degrees before adding the formula.
ie they prepare all the water for the bottles in one day in the morning and then just add the powder as they go along

You definitely need to boil it if adding formula. See here.
www.mumsnet.com/babies/bottlefeeding#Formula_-_the_basic_safety_stuff
Sorry can't link.

And here
www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/@dh/@en/documents/digitalasset/dh_063693.pdf

Carpet fluff and other similar stuff does not harbour salmonella and enterobacter, which are frequently present in formula powder.

Carpet fluff is quite safe by comparison :)

YOu can compare it to giving a baby raw unvaccinated eggs (probably fine but may not be)yet you can give them other raw food.

Are those bacteria (or is it bacterium??) present in dangerous amounts though? I ask this because it seems like in RL everyone formula feeds and everyone makes up milk with cold water and stores the feeds in the fridge so is this mostly OK as it stops the bacteria multiplying? Or are lots of babies getting food poisoning?

I don't know anyone who makes up formula with cold water and virtually all my family formula fed. For a start the powder doesn't dissolve properly if you do anyway surely.

It takes a couple of minutes thats all to boil the kettle (make yourself a cuppa whilst you're at it)!!!

BTW I don't make up formula with cold water, but I am interested in why it is deemed so imperative that the powder is sterilised for older babies. I guess I would just be surprised if formula was riddled with dangerous amounts of bacteria seeing as you would hope that it would be big news - like the Chinese milk scandal was?

yes you do need to boil it.

WHO info here regarding enterobacter sakazakii which was responsible for several baby deaths in belgium and france not all that long ago

powdered formula is NOT sterile, and although the risk is quite small it can make your baby ill.
we know that formula fed babies have more infections and illnesses than breastfed ones and one of the suspected reasons is bacteria in formula

I've never heard of anyone making up formula with cold water.

If you google Powder Infant Formula Milk Contaminated with Enterobacter sakazakii you'll find a recent (2010) paper which found enterobacter in a quarter of their 140 samples of powdered infant formula.

Boiling the water and mixing the powder at 70 deg C stops the bacteria multiplying in milk which is a potent 'incubator' for this bacterium.

Yes, babies do become affected - gastro enteritis is more common in formula fed babies (though this will not always be enterobacter-caused). The vast majority of Western babies are not seriously affected, and make a full recovery. A tiny minority of babies with this infection aquire meningitis or die.

For the sake of boiling a flippin kettle, why run the risk?

I never understand people's reluctance to accept the science-based guidelines.

you would think so PeasPlease wouldn't you? sadly not

But there are small levels of enterobacter in all the food we eat.

I still do boil the water and add formula to hot water, but I am unsure that risks are really so high for older babies who are exposed to various bacteria in the food that they eat.

As an example aptamil sell porridge that has powdered milk powder and its supposed to be added to lukewarm water.

However if you do make up with cold water might be prudent to make sure baby drinks it immediately before any bacteria has time to multiply to dangerous levels.

i think the problem is that it might be close to the maximum level of bacteria, and if you use cold water and then warm it you're creating ideal temperatures for bacteria to multiply.

add to that the fact that you may still be giving them 2 or 3 bottles a day...

food you eat is generally going to be cooked at high enough temperatures to kill off bacteria

obviously the older they get the better they are at fighting off any potential bacteria... but it shouldn't be underestimated i don't think.

and i am generally fairly laid back with this kind of stuff!

Milk is the ideal medium for enterobacter to multiply - so the initial no. of them is irrelevant, really.

Enetrobacter in other foods is not much of a risk.

sorry if i seem stupid but then what's the best way of making powdered milk in advance if going out.

Currently I take with me boiled water that is cooled to room temp and then add the right amount of powder when required.

Is this dangerous?

yes, the powder needs to be mixed with water of 70 degrees to kill off any bacteria

persoanlly if i was formula feeding i would use cartons when out and about, tho i appreciate that it is more expensive.

otherwise you need to either be able to source some boiled water.
OR, make the formula up with boiled water, chill it and take it out with you then warm it up when you are out.

that isn't ideal, but it's better than mixing the powder with cold water

when i am out and about i carry either cartons or chilled formula. I have found these fit avent bottles very nicely (quite snug but thats ok) and provided the milk is already fridge cold when you stick it on it stays fridge cold for several hours. then just need to find bottle warmer/hot water.

link

With both DD and DS1 I used to carry water and powder and mix when ready to feed. But that was before the recent advice.

I am going to invent a bottle that both keeps milk cold and then warms to room temperature when needed!!!!

Well, the initial number of bacteria in the powder is relevant. If it is a small amount (not toxic) and the formula is made up cold and refrigerated then this number will not increase much will it? The problem is only really if the milk is warmed and not used quickly.

Of course, if there is toxic amounts initially in the powder then this method is no good but is this actually the case? And if it is, then making up the powder at 70 degrees wont kill all the bacteria anyway so why is this temperature being insisted upon as being the safe one?

I'm not advocating one method or another but it seems from what I see of how people make up formula that the instructions on the box seem like an unrealistic faff (who can do all that waiting when a baby is crying) so they do what their mum/sister/mate/HV always did and use cold boiled water.