Selfish to supliment?

[blackeyedbees]

My baby is 4 months old and ebf. I feel like Im struggling to fill him up towards the end of the day. My breast feel empty and he is sucking and sucking in a very fussy way until I'm quite sore.
Also I have had a cold that I can't shake for about 6 weeks now and feel generally run down and tired a lot of the time amd Im anemic.
Would it be a good idea to give him formula for his bedtime feed to fill him up for the night? If so would this help me to get a bit of my energy back and feel well again?

Firstly, your breasts are never empty. As a baby sucks, more milk is being made, so there's always some going on!

The fact you're sore - have you had your latch checked? Its always worth it, if you're at all sore. This could be at a peer supporter group, or a breastfeeding drop in, or with a breastfeeding HV specialist, etc.

Orange juice and iron tablets at the same time for the cold and anemia.

I know its tough going, and four months tends to be a slap in the face for rather a lot of mums - everyone talks about how it magically gets easier at three / four months, so you kind of cling to that, and if it doesn't its hard.

You could try giving formula, but it might not make any difference. Also I would say that if you are concerned about your supply for whatever reason, not feeding at night is not the best of plans, as its when your milk is most stimulated.

Have you thought about maybe co-sleeping on a temporary basis?

Sorry its hard for you at the moment.

Blackeyedbees, sounds like it could be the 4 month growth spurt and what your baby is doing is perfectly natural. Have a look at what Kellymom has to say.

Like SirBoob says, your baby will still be getting milk even if your boobs feel empty to you.

Are you looking after yourself too? You say that you are anaemic, are you getting any treatment? Are you managing to eat well? Have you got someone to help you out?

If you are supplementing have you thought about expressing in the morning and giving a bottle in the evening as a top-up?

Hope you feel better soon.

Thanks for that. I was thinking very much along the same lines but hoped that there might be a magic solution,

We are co sleeping and he feeds a couple of times during the night.

When it gets painful I do take him off and try again but it doesn't seem to make any difference. How do I go about encouraging him to change his latch?

Where abouts on your nipple / areola / breast is it hurting? Can you describe the pain? At what point during the feed does it get painful? Is there any pattern to when in the day it hurts?

Sorry for so many questions!

Thanks for the link needsomesleep it looks really helpful.

I am looking after myself ok and DP is pretty suportive.

I'm anemic due to a large bleed during childbirth and I have been given some treatment but it takes a long time to build up iron stores and if I over do it on the iron it has a somewhat adverse affect on my IBS.

I've not suplimented with any formula yet and I would rather not if possible. I trhink I need to try and see a BF advisor to help with the latching.

Sirboob it hurts my nipple and just underneath where his tongue is. Its usually towards the end of the feed and generally at the end of the day when my boobs are a bit deflated.

Oh and the pain is quite burny, not like the cracked nipples you get at the start.

Bumping for you Blackeyedbees as I don't know the answer sorry.

I wonder if it could be thrush if the pain is burny? I'm not sure of other symptoms, sorry, but I'm sure someone else will know.

Do you have a local breastfeeding group you could go to for support?

blackeyed - I was badly anaemic during and after pg and the crappy iron tablets the doc provided really upset my stomach. Spatone are gentler and you can get them from the health food shop. I've got my blood count up really quickly this way.

I'd second all those who say try getting to a group. I have a local breastfeeding network one and the peer supporters are fantastic. You shouldn't be in pain.

Blackeyedbees, going to your local bfing support group is great advice and have you thought about giving one of the helplines a call too?

BBees, firstly, you are doing an amazing job BFing your baby! I have a 13 week old and had a very rough first three weeks - I was in hospital twice and then I got bad mastitis. I found my local breastfeeding cafe (local authority support group) amazing.

However, I have been supplementing with one formula feed since my wee man was 7 weeks. He is EBF all day (he feeds at 7am, 10am, 2.30pm and split feed at 5.30pm, bed at 7pm. I then give him one 7oz carton of Hipp organic at 10pm. Maybe I am selfish, but I was totally exhausted after all my illness, 4 rounds of antibiotics, and I needed a break from feeding from 7pm to 7am. My husband helps out with the feed (I know he could do this with pumped milk but I found that adding a pump to my day was adding to my exhaustion). Adding the formula feed hasn't affected my supply during the day as my little man still feeds at the same times as he has done since he was 5 days old (we have a routine - don't shoot me down for that!).

So...I am a believer in happy healthy mum, happy healthy baby.

Don't worry MBC, I can't seem to find my judgey pants this morning .

I don't think that anyone is judging the OP, its just that we are usually led to believe that supplementing with formula is the only way and the posters on here are trying to say that there might be an alternative.

Think we are also trying to say that this kind of behaviour in a 4 month old is normal and it will get better and trying to sort out the OP's pain.

Good one MtnBikeChick: I like your style. Like you I don't think it's selfish at all to supplement with formula; It's not poison, after all!

My husband does a bottle feed using formula at 8pm and I feed from my breast for the rest of the feeds. We've followed roughly the same routine, with just one formula feed a day, since we brought our daughter home for hospital and it has been brilliant for us. It gives me a rest, gives my husband bonding time with our daughter, allows me to go off and do other things and frees me from the dreaded pump! Like MtnBikeChick I think adding a pumping session into an already busy day when you are tired just adds to your exhaustion.

No problems with supply for me. No nipple confusion.

I'm not sure why the LLL and others are so hell-bent on preventing mothers from topping up occasionally with formula. Can someone educate me? What are they afraid of? I think that breastfeeding advocates would be so much better off if they told mothers that it is not only possible, but sometimes far better for parents and baby, to sometimes use formula in moderation.

Speaking from my own experience I started giving DD a bottle of formula at 14 weeks as her last feed of the evening (7pm). She doesn't sleep for longer than she did when BF but she does fall asleep more quickly then sleep more soundly when she is asleep. I then BF her when she wakes at 3am.

I did try giving another bottle of formula at 3am for a week to see if it would make her sleep longer for the second part of the night but it didn't and even using the cartons it was too much faffing about so we went back to BF.

I agonised for weeks over the decision to give her the nighttime bottle of formula and even now I feel a bit embarrassed and ashamed about it.

However the freedom of being able to guarantee my evenings are baby free has done wonders for my stress levels so I don't feel guilty enough to revert back to EBF.

I hope you feel better soon whatever you decide to do.

Kiwiinkits the reason LLL etc. are reluctant to advise even one bottle of formula a day is because there is evidence that it damages the 'virgin gut'.

I haven't read much about this but I think his means that some of the benefits of BF such as protection against allergies and asthma/eczema will not be acheieved. Although obviously any formula is better than no formula the only way to get all the benefits of BF is to not feed any formula.

Topping up with formula is fine and as you say it is a good solution for some mothers/babies. The risks are if it is recommended too often it becomes a first resort (as it appears to be with many HVs/midwives) rather than trying other less invasive methods for increasing supply/weight gain/etc first. Basically there are risks with formula top ups especially if they are introduced without looking to the root cause of the problem.

In some cases obviously the benefits outweigh the risks and in these cases they are a good thing, and yes it's always better to top up rather than give up BF completely.

BEB the Spatone advice is good too. Don't know if you've tried it yet but when my friend had Anaema it was the only thing that helped her out.

!

Sleep, sweet of you to look out for the OP by reporting me but I would have thought it was pretty obvious from my intimate knowledge of her daytime TV habits that I know her well in the outside world!

I had no idea how easy it was to get deleted!

I've seen people be much ruder about each other's spelling on other threads (admittedly not breastfeeding ones, but you should see them on the "benefit claimants are scroungers" threads!)

I phoned the OP to come and defend my reputation but she's out in some poncey-arsed cafe sipping lattes while I sit at home watching celebrity coach trip on my tod...

glad you raised this blackeyed - I was thinking of doing the same as you (but my baby is only 6 weeks old) i have another DD and just don't seem to find the time to express and when I do, I get such pitiful amounts, it doesn't make a whole feed! One ff feed a day would allow DH to help out but I am too feel bad as it is for selfish reasons rather than necessity!

in sleeps defence I was a bit about your comment rod but I didn't say anything because I couldn't work out whether you were joking on not.

I think because of the heightened emotions around this subject people tend to try and tread a bit more softly here than elsewhere on MN.

for what it's worth now I know it was a joke I did think your comment was funny :)

If you think I'm coming to your defence rod you can think again!!

And for your information it was a hot chocolate not a latte and celebrity coach trip is far more sophisticated then star trek voyager!

I'd love to make some cutting response (preferably one involving spaniel's ears) but I don't want to get deleted again!

Off to get dressed instead... (Bees, please please don't tell DH I didn't get dressed til 3pm!)