It's happening again - please help, really upset

[narmada]

Hi everyone

Sorry long post.
Had a terrible time trying to BF my first daughter. Very traumatised by it at the time. We did relactation at 7 weeks and eventually she was off formula completely.

New DS was born on Tuesday evening, all well with him and the birth, save for me being a GBS carrier and there not having been time for IV antibiotics.

We are now home, I have plenty of help around the house and with my DD, now 2.5, but she is being very demanding, wanting to be in DS's presence all the time, bless her. I have spoken to hospital BF supporter, and recieved I think good advice, but finding it hard to trust myself and my instincts, and trying to establish BF with DS extremely stressful again.

He does not really wake to 'demand' feeds, so I am having to wake him to feed him, struggling to latch and gape wide enough (checked for tongue tie, doesn't appear to be a problem), struggling to get him to stay actively feeding when he is on. He has now not pooed since yesterday morning. And just a couple of wees, dry-ish and cracked lips, so I have been giving him formula supplements and EBM supplements where possible as I do not want him to get dehydrated. I am also trying to do skin-to-skin (I do not want to do bed-sharing) and hand expressing after top-ups but finding it totally exhausting. Milk not come in, but it didn't last time until day 5-6? Amount of colostrum I can express is now significantly less than pre- and immediately after the birth. I am a competent hand-expresser after last time's relactation efforts

Have probably had about 5 hours sleep in total since he was born.

Gotta wake him to try and feed him now, while DP and grandparents wrestle DD in to bed. Can anyone talk me down and tell me what to do succinctly??!!!

Ho hum, really awful night after reasonable day yesterday. We did get some sleep, but DS was so cross and would not latch at all really during the night. He is just fighting and fighting it, even though there is now apparently gallons of the stuff in there.

So we were supplementing with a mix of EBM (mostly) and formula a little bit. I was also trying to express. All just way too much to do. And he wouldn't settle after the bits of feed he did take, just squirming and arching and being obviously uncomfortable and generally cross.

I am trying to use syringes as opposed to the bottle for topups as no doubt he is getting nipple confusion, but again, it's so hard. He of course happily glugs the bottle. I have no sense of when he's full or if he's full using the syringe. The cupfeeding we haev tried, a la the jack newman video, but he won't lap from the cup - his tongue doesn't seem to want to come out far enough.

Now am a bit engorged and of course that's not making it easier for him to latch on. Expressing seemingly endlessly to keep myself comfy.

At least he is now weeing loads. Still no sign of any significant poo - just bits of stainage. This is after 3 and a bit days now. Loads of farting though.

Seeing midwife again this afternoon. Will see what is recommended....

It's all a bit of a struggle. I can't see how it's going to work when my parents leave (tonight) and we have to look after our DD properly ourselves, as well. They can't stay any longer as we don't have room and they have been living in travelodges.

Have thought about going down pumped EBM route and bottlefeeding, but really not something I wanted to do longterm. Health benefits for DS of course, but a right bloody faff. I so want to exclusively feed him directly as nature intended....

I think you need more advice than I can give but you're doing great, good that he's weeing. Bump bump for you :)

Hello narmada,

I'm so sorry to hear what a hard time you're having. I went through something very similar with DD1. She never did get it and, after 4 weeks of expressing (and nearly losing my mind), I moved her on to formula.

I don't have any advice about making bf work but I hope my experience might give you comfort. DD 2 latched on at birth and seemed to know what she was doing right away, which made me realise - after months and months of guilt - that it wasn't my fault that I didn't manage to bf DD1. I'm so sorry you've not had that experience the second time round.

Although it's great being able to bf this time round, it's not all roses either. And that's at the heart of what I want to tell you: How you feed your baby is only a tiny part of being a mother. It's an important part, sure, but I think it can get blown out of proportion. You need to do what's best for your whole family now. With another child to look after, you may not be able to express for hours every day. Be kind to yourself and don't forget about your own needs - if that feels selfish, then remember that you need to be happy in yourself in order to do this mothering thing. You're clearly doing a brilliant job to be trying so hard to bf.

Good luck!

thatdamndog and existentialistcat thank you so much for your responses. existentialist cat you are completely right in everything you say. I know that in my heart. Blessed with mahoosive boobs and babies with tiny mouths, plus me laden with anxiety and perfectionism - makes for a challenging set of circumstances! I do know in my heart of hearts it's not my fault but sometimes hard to remember that in the heat of the moment.

He has been on today and feeding quite well. Up and down. We will see how it goes.

Probably not going to have time to post much here anymore but will aim for an update in a week or so.

Your supportive comments really help.

Well done for sticking at it :-) Ive got DS who is 3.5yrs and DD who is 18weeks. DS wouldnt bf so was bottle fed but DD been pretty much ebf since birth.

It has been so hard bf coping with two especially as DD still feeds every 2hrs in day!!!

In first few days she didnt poo that much which worried me but she soon had a big explosion!

I still get stressed about bf now as she sometimes onlys feeds for 5mins, complains and pulls off but she is in 75th percentile for weight so she must be ok. For first few weeks she would really complain after bf and not if I gave bottle of formula but suddenly stopped and she settled starting to refuse bottles.

Just remember whatever happens whether he is bf or formula he will be fine and grow up happy and healthy so please dont suffer if it all gets too much, lets face it when they are older and stand next to each other you cant tell who was bf can you?!

Well done again and hope sleeping better tonight (im up doing a feed!) :-)

Sorry to hear you've been having such a stressful time. A couple of ideas I've had that may help -

Baby's lack of poo - are you eating enough fibre? When my DD went two days without pooing I realised it followed us running out of virtually everything before a big food shop so instead of the bran flakes for breakfast and copious glasses of fresh orange juice I usually consumed during the day, I'd had no breakfast and was drinking cordial and tea.

Night feeds - I know you don't want to co-sleep so how about a bedside cot. There are some on ebay for as little as £10 and you can get new matresses from £20 at Ikea. A bedside cot means you can sleep next to your DS but without the fear of rolling onto him, smothering him with duvet, etc. This could make night feeds a lot easier as you can "dream feed" and have lots of skin to skin, whilst having your own bed space.

I'd like to echo the comments about suck / swallow patterns. My DD will suck-swallow - suck for 5 mins, then pauses on the breast for a while just having the occasional suck before either coming off completely or starting to suck and swallow quickly again. It is completely normal for babies to pause and rest whilst latched on. To prompt my DD I stroke her ear, cheek or under her chin, or try to lean back to extract my nipple which makes her start sucking again most of the time.

Well done for persevering. I hope it gets easier.

thanks queen and hannah. he has put on 3oz in 2 days, suckling and swallowing well, pooing and peeing constantly....may be tempting fate but.....think we may have turned a corner

Great news on the weight gain narmada- stick at it!

Thats great well done you :-) They always go through phases of being awkward dont they then suddenly snap out of them, just to test you I think! x

Well done. That's lovely to hear.

quick update while my lunch is doing.

DS now pooing and weeing great, not that i am obsessed or anything. he is refusing the bottle now, hurray.

getting him weighed on friday when MW comes around. i hope he will be doing ok by then, but i shan't worry overly if he is not totally back to birth weight.

it has been a struggle to get the real-life support from midwives. they are lovely but was told by one that they are so under-staffed and over- stretched that they really only have the capacity to do first-day-after-discharge vsits . i know there are people far more needy than me, too, which makes me feel bad for taking up their time, but i have to do what's best for my DS. i am eternally grateful to NHS he was born safely but postnatal under-capacity is a bit of a sorry state of affairs and cannot do anything to increase local BF rates.

All sounds good now narmada.

That is pretty shocking to only receive one visit post discharge- you're right to push for help though, I'd do the same in your situation.

It's situations like yours that makes me think it might be better to have a team of breast feeding specialists to come and visit women. Not all mws seem to be up to date in their bf training and knowledge and it would mean that women would get decent, unrushed help.

Good luck for the weigh in on Friday.

Oh I agree completely, Crikey, I think the two roles could be helpfully separated out. I suppose it's just budget constraints but possibly it could be a lack of will, too. The funny thing is that this is a hospital that is currently aiming for Unicef Baby Friendly Initiative status. They do have a BF support team - that is a vast improvement from when I was last there with DD1 and to be fair the BF person has been quite supportive BUT again I really had to push and push to get to see her, making a real song and dance about how much I struggled with DD1 on the BF front. I think (could be wrong) she has to deal with everyone on in the unit and there are a huge number of births there per year (it's a huge unit, very high local birthrate).

I wonder how they arrange things in Finland and other places with far higher sustained BF rates?

We did manage to see midwives in the interim, by going to the hospital, but I really found that a struggle and that is given that we have a car. What about those people who don't? Can't get there on the bus (and frankly who could with a toddler and a 5 day old, even in the best of circumstances?). Or who are on their own (there is no way on earth I would be driving a car in my sleep-deprived state, partner has to do it!). It makes me sad

The BF support team are only available in hospitals, I meant to say - I think the idea really is that you make use of them when you're in there, but with 6 hour discharges, that's not very likely is it??!!

God, I am incoherent. Lack of sleep. BF support team (of one) only available in the hospital, doesn't/ don't do home visits!

You're right narmada- you need the help in the weeks following the birth don't you.

I'm not sure about Finland- wonder if there are any Finnish mumsnetters out there who would care to share?

Crikey, back to me me me! kidding, but if you are still around would appreciate any thoughts. After a good feed at about 930, it's been a bit of a palaver the rest of the day, he hasn't fed well since then at all, fighting and struggling, posturing, throwing his head back and arching, a couple of sucks here and there, throw it all back up, and when he's finished with all that, he just zonks again. My boobs suddenly feel emptier now engorgement and milk coming in has passed.

His sister had reasonably bad reflux and I am starting to wonder if that mightn't be contributing to our issues somewhere along the way. Fightiing hard to keep those thoughts away. Be gone!

I am trying to remain calm and not panic. It's only a few hours since I was feeling positive, after all. aware am askign for lots of support but dunno what else to do apart from sit here and stew in a tired fug...!

Ah, it's hard isn't it narmada- one step forward, two steps back by the sound of it.

Not sure if you've read this already- but it could be worth a look.

I don't really know anything about reflux to be honest, but it could be worth exploring.

Don't worry about asking for help- that's what everyone is here for after all.

thanks so much crikey. just managed 10-15 mins of feeding, but with plenty of squealing, grunting, squirming, high pitched keening, posturing etc. still, he was on a bit.

reflux is a bitch. hoping so much it's not in the picture. grandfather, father, sis all have/ had it tho, father on meds even now at 36.

will check out link. thanks again.

Wind? Some babies take ages to come up with it. I know it sounds silly, but worth a few more pats maybe?

DS had some porblems with bringing milk back up. Infant Gaviscon helped. Worth a trip to GP?

He may be adjusting to a faster flow of milk.

I do not belive it. My toddler just returned from nursery and vomited copiously all over me. Signing off now, as you can imagine - not a time for internet posting I feel.

OK, never say never. But....toddler gone to bed, seems to be OK, no further vomit. DS has had a couple of feeds since 6pm feed, albeit only for about 10 minutes each time, but am beginning to wonder if he is actually getting plenty, and is just getting more efficient. His nappies are wet, he is doing mustardy poos, and I swear his legs have chubbed up. Still a fussy bugger on the boob tho. On, off, squeal, on off, squeal, throw head back, back on.....I have no idea what's going on. It's a complete mystery. Babies.

Some people probably think I'm a total saddo posting all my worldly concerns on here, but it helps to get it off my chest even if few people read it! Off to bed now.

Off to bed now.

thank you latrucha for your posts too. prior experience with gaviscon and terrible constipation in DD puts me off but maybe, we will see how it goes. It could be something to do with faster milk flow.

Really am going to bed now.

Hope you got some sleep narmada and your toddler is OK.

Did you have a good day today?