Newborn has lost more than 10% of birth weight - we have til Monday

[FingonTheValiant]

I've posted a few times about 5 day old DS who is really not feeding well. He was weighed today and he's lost 380g since Sunday. The midwife said she wasn't going to "rush me through a&e to the paediatricians just yet", but said she'll come back on Monday pm to reweigh him, and if he hasn't gained enough he'll be hospitalised, and that the paeds will then insist he has formula top ups :(

I'm desperate to avoid this, but I'm now stressed beyond rational thought.

Also, he's refusing one breast completely (screams, flails, kicks etc) and I'm in agony on the other side. I know that that means he's latching badly, but he is drinking, and with a weight gain ultimatum I don't want to interrupt the feeding he's actually doing.

They've told me to wake him and feed him every two hours. But he spends the first 30-40 mins of that fussing/screaming and not feeding, and by the time I've calmed him and got him on and fed I only have 40 mins before we're meant to start again.

They also said I have to top him up with a cup after each feed, so I've bought an electric pump to help with that. But he wont cup feed properly - he doesn't stick out his tongue, he just gulps at it and hits the cup, and half of it is wasted.

How do I fix this mess? I just want to curl up with my baby and cry forever :(

Surely it shouldn't be a case of paying for a specialist, as the La Leche League are around in lots of places and are very good? A helper may well come to you if you contact them. In Oxford, the JR hospital also has an excellent bf clinic so there may be other support available too.

I don't see that they shouldn't weigh bf babies at all this early, being as a bf baby could have problems in gaining weight just as much as any other baby, but too-frequent weighings can cause you to worry unnecessarily too. Daily sounds like far too often as there will be weight fluctuations.

I breast fed both of mine. I bf ds1 for 3 months & mix fed till 6 months and exclusively bf ds2 till 8 months.

I remember the overwhelming feeling of being entirely responsible for this little persons well-being and all the emotion including guilt relating to it. So I understand some of what you are feeling right now & send my love.

My Mum bottle-fed us so didnt understand BF, I found lots of people even midwifes and HV didnt and were full of outdated advice and old wifes tales. I learnt alot from this site and kellyMom and found a lovely NCT advisor at my local childrens centre (although she was only there once a week it was enough to make me feel confident in what I was doing)

There has been lots of great advice on here; I just wanted to add that formula is not poisen, dont feel a failure if you decide to give it to your baby for whatever reason.

Find a supportive bf counsellor, try and find a bf cafe or similar. (I love this site but Netmums is very good for local services if you have had no luck with the contacts that others posted earlier)

Enjoy these early weeks and trust your instincts (and bottles are not the devil)

Hi. I just wanted to share my experience with you - I found it such a relief to know how many people had been through the same thing. Me and DD were readmitted to hospital on day 9 due to her losing 13%. We ended up staying in for 4 days having relented to a 40ml ff top up after every feed on day 3 of being there. When she was 28 days old she was referred to the hospital again because she wasn't yet back to birth weight. Long story short, it took over 8 weeks to get back to birth weight (4.25kg). She also had a tongue tie that several midwives missed and was only found out by a breastfeeding counsellor. We are now working on getting back to exclusive bf.

The main things I took away from this were that a bf support group really helped. Fenugreek worked for me to increase milk supply. Kellymom has great info on cutting out top ups if it comes to that. Dh was much better at cup feeding than me. And the main thing - if DD was never weighed, no one would ever think anything was wrong with her. Sometimes nappy output and baby's behaviour say more than the numbers on the scales.

Sorry for rambling - you're doing a fantastic job Mum, things WILL get better one day at a time, and as long as your baby has you, everything else is really small stuff. HTH xxxxx hugs

Hi Op,

My DD lost 10.5% by day 3 and so we were admitted - she just wasn't latching. We were put on schedule of pumping every 3 hours. Then after each pump I would offer the breast, then the EBM and then top up with formula. We had lots of support from the midwives with latch and we were in for 3 days. It took DD a while to start gaining weight but by 3 weeks she had regained her birthwieght and is now thriving at 10 weeks. By 3 weeks we were EBF and I have only recently re--introduced ebm so i can leave her for more than 30 minutes! She has had no issues switching from bootle to breast and now breast and occasional bootle. The formula top-ups were a shame but ended up being only a small percentage of her total food in the first few weeks.

Being hospital was the right thing for us - DD got the food she needed to get strong enough to BF and I got the expert advice I needed with someone else to make all the meals and keep all the visitors away. So if you are admitted don't despair - it may be just what you need, but hope it doesn't come to that. Either way I am sure you will all be fine - these early issues are so common. Best of luck.

tiktok no one is suggesting there is no problem. i do think that telling a mother that there is a big problem and come monday the baby will probably need to go to hospital and then leaving is really bad practice.

Agree, sophable - leaving a mother in this situation the way the midwife did is not good.

There are a few posts which underplay the seriousness of the situation, even so, but I agree, none which actually state 'no problem', sorry.

I was in no way having a go tiktok!

this thread makes me want to pay for a bf counsellor to go round for a couple of hours!!!!

it's really got to me, mostly because i had SUCH great support both times with my dcs (can't get used to saying that! I have two!).

new mum's need so much more back up and support than they mostly get.

I know you were not having a go, sophable :)

Could not agree more about support.

This happened with my son, but he was also jaundice, he was taken to hospital, and i was told to top up his feeds with formula, turns out i had not where near the milk supply i needed and stopped producing milk all together by the next week :( (turns out i had retained placenta)

Fing how has the day gone?

Hi all,

Thanks for continuing to post. Yesterday was a total disaster.

I managed to express about 30ml on Friday night, so after a fairly good session on the breast I gave it to him as a bottle at about 12.30. I then woke up at 5.15 and had an absolute fit - convinced I'd smothered him etc - as he has never slept for more than two hours. Woke him and fed him, but I was getting abdominal pain. Woke him again at 8, fed him, dh gave him another EBM top up (about 25ml) but by this time I was in agony, so phoned the hospital and was told to com in for a quick check up.

Ended up on the labour ward from 9.30-5.30. I was seen after about 90mins and they think I have an infection.

Anyway, while there and waiting for anti-bs a midwife came to take blood as I was feeding him, we told her we were having problems so she offered to help. She couldn't get him to latch at all (and it later turned out that she's one of their breastfeeding specialists) so offered to help, but then got called away. I hand expressed 10ml into a cup, and she said she's come back to show us a better way of doing it. She never came back, so we had to carry on.

Then another midwife came, saw him trying to latch, tried to help, couldn't get him on, and decided to send for the paediatrician.

5 1/2 hours later, still no paediatrician, so they weighed him, decided he'd gained 30g, and that as he seemed alert he was probably fine and sent us home - with no paediatric review.

Totally stressful, awful waste of a day.

I am now particularly pissed off by the totally contradictory information I've been given. One midwife told me he should be taking 66mls per feed, another said 10mls. One told me to feed on demand, that he'd let me know when hungry, another said I have to feed him every two hours (I've tried, he's not interested if I wake him up, only if he wakes himself).

He fed a lot better yesterday evening though. Latched on pretty well and fed about once an hour, and then slept for 5 hours, had another big feed and slept for another 3. Since then he's been feeding about every 90mins.

I've given him a couple of EBM top ups as well.

I just hate that I have no idea if I'm doing it right or not, and I've spent most of the weekend in tears. I feel like shit and I cant believe I've messed up so badly. I really tried to find out everything I could before he was born, and every time I speak to a consultant or a midwife I feel like I'm saying "yes I've tried that as well", but someone must know something I haven't tried.

I said in the hospital yesterday that there must be a way to do it without top ups and formula because we never used to have them, and they replied yes, but that some babies didn't survive so perhaps DS would have been one of those :(

Crap, I've upset myself and I'm crying loads again. I have to go to bed.

Thank you so much for your help again. Wish me luck for tomorrow, I don't think it will go very well.

oh Fingon - what a crappy day. I really feel for you.

Tomorrow you are going to see the hv anyway arent you and be referred to the paed if needed?

The feeding itself sounded a lot better last night though so maybe that is resolving itself - take heart.

Ignore any hurtful comments - people can, and do say absolutely ridiculous things without thinking.

Hospital midwives are no experts on bf as you've discovered - ask to be referred to someone who is.

Are you feeling better in yourself - have they given you antibiotics?

Fingon - no no no, you haven't messed up at all! Your baby is feeding better, starting to gain weight - despite the best efforts of the midwives to confuse you.

Give yourself a bloody big pat on the back, chin up and persevere tomorrow :) Seriously, you are doing brilliantly, and it will get easier.

Seeing the mw tomorrow afternoon, so we'll see what she says.

I'm feeling better thanks, I've got two lots of anti-b's and some stronger painkillers if needed, so hopefully that'll be sorted out fairly quickly.

Oh Fingon.

Cut yourself some slack my girl. It's such a challenging time even when everything is going 'right'. Sorry to hear about your infection that will be making you feel rough in itself without the sleep deprivation/anxiety about the feeding.

Do the hospital you've just been at run a beastfeeding clinic? is it possible you could go back and tap into that resource? That MW who is the bfing specialist might be able to really help you.

Hopefully tomorrow you'll find that your DS has gained some since the last weighing and that you won't at least have to be hospitalised. Is he alert?

You are getting a lot of conflicting advice which must be doing your head in. It's a shame you didn't get to see the paed as really as a specialist they should be able to definitive answer as to how much extra your DS needs (if any) on top of the bfing.

Whether to feed totally on demand or wake-to-feed? Well for babies who are gaining weight and who are latching well they don't need to be woken. But for babies who failing to thrive they will need to be woken to feed regularly. This will just be temporary though until feeding/latching has been improved when you will be able to feed on demand again.

You haven't spoilt anything. Not at all. You are doing an amazing job, it is soooo difficult in the early days being a new mum and finding your way.

beastfeeding

You poor thing Fingon - you really are having a tough time of it with no real apparent support.

It sounds like things are improving now though - he's still so little and these things do take time.

Hope you feel better soon and that the HV is helpful tomorrow.

Try and and stay postive- even if he is admitted, then you can still get through this.

Thanks for the giggle Fanjolina, I needed it!

I've been feeding him both sides, and he's getting better at feeding on the "bad" side, which has been a huge relief, and my supply definitely seems to have increased - in fact it's leaking all over the place, and seems to be a fast let down as he's choked a couple of times - oops.

It's silly, but he's DC1 and I've not had much experience with babies, so I'm still anxious about lifting him and moving him, which makes me nervous about swapping sides, but I know I have to.

There's no bf clinic at the hospital unfortunately, but I'm going to try to go to a cafe tomorrow. I'm worried about going though as DS is not a discreet feeder by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm not sure my nerves can take that much exposure at this point.

Ds is lovely and pink and very alert and active when he's awake. So even if he needs help with weight gain I'm trying not to worry too much about his health - I'm sure he's healthy apart from that.

Lots of good advice - I also want to say please don't let it get you down too much if it comes to a formula top-up. DS had this, he had formula for 24 hours and I was miserable about it - but actually, it helped him regain the weight, gave me a break that I really needed and soon afterwards we established BF very well, and carried on for 9 months. A bit of formula isn't a disaster IMO (though i know some people do think so).

Sorry you had a bad day yesterday, but look at the brightside - your baby has gained weight, sleeping well and you can tell that the latch has improved and milk supply has increased and you're able to express as well. You're doing brilliantly! It's a pain when you get lots of conflicting advice. It is partly because no two babies are alike and what's worked for one baby may well not work for another. But it sounds like you have found a way to improve things which is working for your baby and hopefully that's what the midwife will tell you tomorrow. If you do have to go into hospital hopefully you will have access to a breastfeeding expert who will help you further, even if some temporary formula is necessary. But fingers crossed that it wont be necessary and that your DS has lost all the weight he's going to and is now on the way back up!

My DS1 lost nearly 10% of his birth weight and then gained weight very slowly - it took him 6 weeks just to get his birthweight back. At about three weeks the midwives were very keen that he should be topped up with formula, but the health visitors encouraged me to ebf! So lots of conflicting advice there! I went with the HV as that was the advice I wanted to hear!

It is so worrying with your first borns as you have no idea what to expect, but my DS did survive his first year - crawling at 7 months and walking at 10, so was in no way held up by his slow start. He's 8 years now and is healthy, intelligent and active. Whatever happens tomorrow one day that will be your DS too and all your early worries will be far away. Good luck!

Fingon - I would second that you really musn't worry too much even if you do have to give formula top ups for a while. Yes it's not ideal, but sometimes there are problems that mean it really can't be helped, and that is exactly what formula is there for! For various reasons I had to give one or two bottles of formula a day for the first 3 months. At 4 months we're now b/f exclusively and I plan to continue for as long as possible.

But to be honest from what you say I doubt you'll need to. It sounds like you are building your milk supply brilliantly. If there are problems with direct feeding there are several ways to supplement using EBM without resorting to bottles. And again, even if you do have to give the odd bottle it still isn't the end of the world. Both of mine had regular bottles from an early age and there was no sign of nipple confusion.

Please don't be so hard on yourself!

You'll be getting more confident about lifting and moving him too, it all comes with time and getting to know your baby too.