The baby whisperer

[Zimm]

Just started this as it was recommended by a friend and I thought it would have good advice for when DD is ready for a bit more of a routine (she is only 6 weeks so we are 100% baby led in terms of feeds and sleeps). Is the author insane?? She seems to completely fail to appreciate the advantages of BM over FF and be under the impression that a BF baby should always go 3 hours between feeds. It seems she raised 2 robots, not babies!!

I have sort of followed baby whisperer for both my children DD who is now 6 and DS who is 4 months. DD was ebf for 13 months (self weaned) and DS is ebf, planning for as long as he wants.

I certainly don't agree with the 3 or 4 hrly. What i have done is just the way the routine goes...eat, activity, sleep. But it is up to DS how often he does that. He has settled into 2-2.5 hrly during the day and a bit longer at night, he mostly just has 1 hr naps in the day though occasionally has a 2 hr nap.

In the early days, the shush pat worked to get him to learn to self settle as well.

I found that pick up put down didn't work and i don't agree with dummies so some bits of the book i just ignore!!

I don;t think she is a nutter, but remembr the huge preponderrnace of ff in th UK

if she took a strongly pro-bf no ffers would buy her book and she'd make no money

with a snappy acronym anyone can push a philospohy to sell books and make money - dd was an AH-YES baby (Awake and Happy, had You-time while she played, then she'd get hungry so would Eat till she Slept) and I often wondered if I could market myself as a guru on the basis of it...

I have my problems with the Baby Whisperer. I think that DH threatened to burn the book at one point.

Without that book I would have been a lot more comfortable to BF on demand and just fall in with my DD's needs as a baby. As it was, I felt that I was failing as a mother, particularly as my DD was a really bad sleeper. :(

The other thing that really got my back up was her ripping into a group of BF mothers for not supplying a friend with EBM when she was in hospital and couldn't BF. The Mum was in hospital for days. My DD could sink 12oz in an afternoon! And it would take me ages just to get a couple of oz expressed. But apparently these Mums were really selfish for not expressing gallons of milk for their friend's baby.

Sorry i think she's a nutter. I bought the book because she seemed sensible on the program - the book is a lot different. When she suggested asking my son's permission to change him/bath him i got a bit then she said we should just accept our dh's 'as they are' if they're not helping, not nag them and be grateful for any help we did get. I've now given up, book is going to car boot at weekend.

I wonder how they raised babies before these so-called parenting gurus became popular...

I do wonder if it's linked to decline of extended family jem - getting advice from a book wheras once you would have been helped by your mum/aunts etc?

bw cotributed hugely to my failure to bf no1.

lot of shite imo.

I read bits of this book at my SILs and was , and at the contents. The woman is a loon. DH and I spent a week pissing ourselves with laughter and asking our DS for his permission to give 'his little body a massage' before the novelty wore off. Just go with the flow - you'll all be a lot happier.

This was the only 'parenting' book I've read (HV said it was okay) - didn't warm to it, and I totally agree with MrsBadger - it needs to appeal primarily to formula feeders to sell (they are the main market after all, this makes perfect sense from a purely commercial POV).

I've been thinking about the connection between FF-ing and 'routine' parenting, and it seems to me that strict routines actually make a virtue out of the inconveniences of FF-ing. What I mean is - feeding on demand using formula (esp if you make it up according to guidelines, and no one I know does) is hard. You'd waste a lot, and end up keeping a crying baby waiting while you made it up, etc.

FF-ing on a routine must be so much easier, surely. If you KNOW you won't be feeding your baby until midday, or 3 pm etc, then you can start preparing formula and bottles accordig to a schedule, and be ready 'on time.'

I should be clear - my 10 week DS is EBF, so far, and I'm pro-BF, but I also know there are very good reasons why some mums FF. And I'm not suggesting it's all a Big Conspiracy! Just that in a very subtle way, I think the FF culture and the strict routine parenting culture have something of a reciprocal relationship. As far as I can see, strict routines must be a near impossibility for BF-ing mums. (and how do you establish supply in the 1st few weeks if you are feeding on a schedule from week 1?? Genuine question,I just don't see how it works).

Maybe I'm pointing out something that's well known - sorry if I am, I know there are a lot of folk here who've been thinking about these issues for a lot longer than me.

With DS1 I bought this and followed it, thinking it as a more gentle alternative to the book by she whom shall not be named. I must confess it was useful for the bit about interpreting babies crys and body language as I knew nought about babies.

However I now realise it is a total pile of pants for advise on breast feeding!

Thanks to Mumsnet I chose to follow a more intuative approach with DS2 and now only open it to shake my head in horror. The bit about slapping baby's hand away and saying no if they try to play with your hair or necklace whilst BF (god forbid they wish to lovingly interact with you whilst feeding!)and the mom BF the 2.5 year old for her own benefit to the detriment of her family who realised the error of her ways!

I referred to the widsom of The Politics of BF and 3 in a bed this time!

I turned to the wisdom of the Politics of Breastfeeding and 3 in a bed this time!

i too was advised to read this book as a sensible alternative to SWSNBN

i went bonkers trying to fit ds1 onto a routine, felt a failure as a mother and he failed to thrive and i ended up ff, not what i wanted.

agree these books replace common sense and the extended family. for lots of new mums, theirs is the first baby they have had much interaction with or seen bf etc.

Politics of bf/food of love/3 in a bed all much better, and with evidence, not just a nanny's way of doing things. i always think, it's easier to let someone elses' baby cry!

The only positive thing about the BW is she does regard the baby as a real little person with needs and preferences.

The rest of her book, esp the feeding advice, is just wrong in many parts and based on a poor and often incorrect understanding of how babies and feeding work.

Would just like to interject as the only person in the world (it feels like) who ended up doing ff on demand. Some babies just don't want 3-4 hourly big feeds ff or bf.
I rarely go an hour without eating or drinking so why would I expect my baby to?

pomme - I have a friend who does too, so you're not alone :)

pomme, I hope my post didn't read as if I was implying all FF-ers are routine parenters etc - not what I meant at all, and I did hesitate before posting, in case I blundered into a minefield. I also think not all (prob very few) babies, esp very new ones, want feeds at 3 or 4 hour intervals.

I just think there are a lot of very subtle ways that different methods of feeding lead us towards certain kinds of behaviour and parenting. For example - when my DS is being given a bottle of EBM, I know my DP feels a certain pressure to get DS to drain the bottle. A pressure not really based on anything other than a (kind) desire not to waste a drop of milk! and the visual 'prompt' that a half full bottle of milk gives him. So he tends to keep offering DS the bottle, and seeing whether he accepts. I just noted the other day, this is the opposite of how DS feeds from the breast. Then HE tells ME he's hungry, and I respond by putting him on my boob.

I think I might be trying to make a complex point here, and perhaps haven't thought it through enough to be clear. All I was really doing was saying that from a purely practical POV, I see that routine based parenting, with strictly timed feeds, might well seem more attractive to and be more popular with parents feeding formula. Isn't it also the case that formula leaves babies feeling fuller for longer? Which might make those 3 or 4 hour stretches a bit more feasible than for a baby quickly processing BM, and wanting to feed more often. BW may well be negative about BF-ing because it doesn't suit her routine as well as formula feeding, IYSWIM. C'est tout!

I get what you mean fox: it's that FF is more likely to be compatible with these routines than BF is.

I think the original rigid routine style of parenting (Truby King method IIRC) originated in the 50s and coincided with the rise of FF as well.

barkfox - don't worry, I don't think anyone took what you said as an attack. I knew what you were getting at. :)

Barkfox - I think you are a genius! I have never thought of it like that before, but it makes perfect sense now you mention it. BTW I'm EBF on demand and considering FF soon (DS is almost 6 months).
With regard to BW, I'm , I quite liked some of the television programmes she did and found her book quite interesting from a general reading POV but I've not followed any of her routines.

barkfox - sorry, totally agree. Didn't mean to come across as narky. Most ff-ers I know are on a routine and know exactly when the next feed will be. I have never knownthis and was slightly as when I made the decision to move to ff baby wasn't getting benefits of bm and I wasn't getting benefits of a routine.
jemjabella - good to know I'm not alone!

I bf until DD was 1yo and I found parts of the baby whisperer very useful. The EASY routine helped a lot with my DD as she would constantly fall asleep almost immediately after feeding, then wake up starving and repeat this constantly throughout the day and night.

Going along with the general structure of the EASY routine helped loads, although with any of these books you have to pick and chose the advice and take it all with a pinch of salt. Iirc the bw doesn't stipulate 3 hrs between feeds?

If the books not for you, don't bother with it. She's not insane IMO.

QueenofDreams, yes - that's a much more concise version of what I meant! Apologies all, the english language has deserted me today. pomme, you weren't narky at all, as I say, I did think twice before I posted, as what I was saying was so speculative anyway.

(NB pebblejones, you don't have to give up at 6m if you don't want to )