Bfing, formula and solids.

[MumNWLondon]

DS2 is coming up to 5 months. So far he has been EBF but over the last 2 days have reluctantly given some formula.

He slept through the night at 8 weeks based on 6 feeds (7,10,1,4,7,10) and is a very calm chilled out baby who only wakes at night in cases of genuine hunger.

At 16 weeks he started waking up in the night, initially it was once a night, then twice a night, and by this week although he goes 3 hours between feeds in the morning (I have loads of milk then) by the afternoon its 2 hourly and by (my) bedtime its hourly.

He will not feed for long, totally refuses to suck for long on an emptyish breast (ie when the milk is slow). Feeds are generally rnage from 5-10 mins of each side. I ALWAYS start on emptier side as that way he is prepared to suck a little longer when he is hungrier at the start of a feed, and I alway offer the 1st side again after the 2nd side etc. Have also been taking more milk plus herbal blend.

So last night he fed at 4pm, 5.30pm, 7pm, 8.30pm, 10pm, 11.30pm. When he woke at 1pm he was very cross as my milk was so slow so I offered him a bottle and he drank 4oz of aptamil and then slept all night.

So what to do now? I will try pumping in the morning and saving this for the evening. But am thinking he either needs solids or a bottle of formula at bedtime? I don't really mind cutting back on the BFing as I am going back to work in a month so he'll have formula in the day, can move things around then so that I go back to Bfing at night etc. Otherwise HV said ok to do some solids eg babyrice/carrots/apples/pears from 5 months.

We are going on holiday next week, it is going to be hot (30c+) DH said he is not keen on baby screaming all night and waking up other DC so need to do something about it.

Is it really the case for me that if I want to EBF for the next month then I am destined to have multiple night wakings and a hungry baby?

I know what you mean re the feeding with minimal distractions. It's so depressing at times! I had to work DS's feeds around naps which worked better as he was drowsy so would feed better.
Can you express and give a bottle in the day - for example at lunch time? Or formula and introduce one solid meal at lunch if you want to wean.Then a couple of night feeds to keep up the supply? I think night feeds maintain supply much better than day feeds as while you're resting (!) your body can make more milk.

I do sympathise as DS was a terrible night sleeper but he had/has silent reflux so night feeds gave him comfort from the pain.

Also you might find his sleep is better on holiday as so tired from all the distractions. I know my DS slept better on ours - although not in hot weather (actually in summer he fed more at night and had drier nappies so needed more fluids I guess)

jemjabella - maybe, but I only use newborn slow teats, whats much more likely is that he is wanting fast breast milk - I have a very strong let down reflex when my breasts are full in the morning, once it gets going he struggles to swallow it is shooting into his mouth so fast. He often comes off because its too fast and it sprays up to a metre. Sadly its not like that in the evening when its slow milk.

DS1 was the same (actually much worse!), our BFing relationship broke down at 4 months as he would bite if the milk wasn't fast enough, and refuse to suck at all, just scream.

What about expressing in the evening? (Wasn't sure if you'd seen me ask this before)

This is a random thought but are you sure he's hungry? Could he have wind or discomfort from your over active letdown (I have this too) and is feeding to relieve it? And he thinks a faster flow will help?
I know my overactive letdown caused DS to pull off and get upset - more so in the evenings or at night. I think it was because he was tired - so I had to work on my positioning, making sure he was on top of the flow. I didn't think I had a huge letdown later in the day but clearly I did!
He did the biting etc and went on nursing strike on the end because he didn't like the flow. He was happier as he got older though.

After a morning feed I hold him upright and he does lots of very loud burps. I have too much milk in the morning, about right in the afternoon and less in the evening. I am concerned about him being hungry in the evening/night.

Have tried expressing in the evening but I just have a little avent handpump and it doesn't yield much then - lucky if I can get an oz on each side. In the morning can easily pump 4-5oz off each side.

mumnwlondon, sorry to hear you are having problems. You said a couple of posts ago that you wouldn't cut back on milk feeds if giving solids. But if the point of starting solids early is to get him to sleep through the night, surely he would miss the feeds if currently takes at night? Would you be hoping to get him to take these feeds during the day, and if so perhaps you could try your prefered technique for this without solids?

Fwiw we started blw with ds about three weeks early as he was developmentally ready. He's now seven months, puts a fair bit of solid food away and still bfs a lot, including throughout the night. I am that your ds has slept so well so far. Personaly i imagine this is a stage he'll grow out of soon. I hope so for you!

x post. As jemja has pointed out the morning milk will be less calorific ounce for ounce. Also might it be that giving ebm in the evening might tell your body to produce less at that time of day? Don't know much about the circadian rhythm of boobs!

I didn't realise that my milk in the evening is more calorific! Glad I have read this as my DH sometimes gives my DD a top up of expressed Bm that I have pumped early in the morning .

Yes, I know that evening milk is more calorific than morning milk hence I'd only offer a top up of EBM if I thought he was still hungry and he'd already fed from me.

Weaning isn't recommended before 6 months because they are more likely to develop gut problems later. They don't have enough enzymes developed to digest solids well before this. Often they become constipated which has its own implications for potty training, so I would give enough formula to space feeds and breastfeed the rest of the time. If you wean now it means purees which is a PITA. If you wait until 5.5/6 mths he should be able to pick things up and try his self to feed. Saves so much stress! Good luck!

My friend just went to see a paediatrician and got onto subject of weaning to solids. Paed said current 6 month guideline is mostly an attempt to get women to bfeed longer, as impression is that when weaning begins, bfeeding declines.

She also used to work in the civil service and discovered that the '5 a day' campaign was based on no scientific fact at all, it was just an easy, catchy number. Ever since she told me that, I've been a tad suspicious of what's behind these mass health edicts.

Yes coffee addict. I have heard "five" a day is random too. Random because the world health organisation, who incidentally, i have heard do quite a lot of research, recommend nine a day. But this was deemed off puttingly high. Quite a while since i heard this though and i've no real evidence to back it up.

I know this is all ot, but i am curious as to what it is that you suspect is behind these mass health edicts? Why for instance might health authorities wish to encourage bf beyond six months? Asside from the health benefits stated in the literature that openly encourages this?

all true about less pureeing at 6 months just hope he doesn't have a gag reflux like ds1 who had to eat purees until around 18 months. Everytime I tried to sneak a lump or even some texture in there he gagged and puked it and the whole of the previous milk feed up. It happened when out and about eg he'd try and eat a piece of bread in a cafe or at friends. Unbelievable just how big his tummy was as it semeed to be a huge amount that came up!!!!

IIRC in Japan they recommend 12 portions of veg a day? Or was it Australia.. I don't know, somewhere foreign

I have heard that australia stick by the who guidelines. Maybe japan are bettering them! They must have an ulterior motive

I goooooogled it out (I'm bored) ...

"Although in Britain we are told to live by the five-a-day maxim, the Danes must aim for six, the French 10, and Canadians are urged to get through between five and 10. The Japanese government, however, now recommends up to 13 portions of vegetables plus four of fruit daily."

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2006/may/25/healthandwellbeing.health

nice work jemja!

Bloody hell! 17 portions of fruit and veg! I wonder if many achieve that! And trust good old canada to be up for negotiation on the matter!