Where in the country is there a lack of support for breastfeeding ?

[smallvoice]

Can I just ask where those who say there is no support for breastfeeding live ?

From the moment I walked into my dr's surgery bottle feeding was never mentioned as an option. When it really mattered (ie not when I was watching eastenders or playing with my dolls-see threads surrounding the Milupa debate), there was an overwhelming amount of information available about breastfeeding. I never asked about bottlefeeding but a friend of mine in a different area who has very valid psychological reasons for actively deciding to bottlefeed was told by her antenatal midwife that she was not allowed to provide any information or give any advice re bottle feeding.

As it happened after the birth I was severely anaemic, with no energy or physical resources to draw on, and had a baby with a tongue tie who found it difficult to get milk from me and therefore did not stimulate my low production. Breastfeeding was incredibly difficult. I made the decision to bottlefeed with no support or information. I found this lack of support on such an emotional issue very difficult. In the breastfeeding debate it is often said that every woman is free to make her own decision as long as its informed. In fact as its almost impossible to make an informed decision as, at a time when women aren't free to do lots of their own research, there is a distinct lack of any information...When I asked questions not one professional could give me any actual figures or refer me to any material about the options I was trying to weigh up - they could only repeat the generalisations re breastfeeding which I could see on any poster. I assume these are based on studies and statistical facts but I wasn't able to assess any of the risks.

If I had been absolutely determined to breastfeed I could have turned to midwives, the health vistors, workshops, drop in clinics, helplines, books, mumsnet, plus any of the women I met in my antenatel/post natal groups who, with one exception, are all breastfeeding.

Instead whenever I walked into the drs surgery, had a conversation with a health visitor, logged onto mumsnet or even picked up the box of formula I was reminded that breast is best. I don't have a problem with any of this and I plan on trying again next time but do wonder where those who complain that there is no support for breastfeeding live and does anyone agree that in this debate some of the statistical back should be more readily available through health professionals?

PS 3 months on I'm very confident about my decision and its just one of many I will make as a parent...sometimes I'll fall on the right side of the statistical probabilities and sometimes not.

I was told that as well TT. (But that was 6 years ago.)

I believe that when most of us refer to an informed decision we are not talking about the easy stuff that is displayed in Bounty leaflets or the smiling mothers breastfeeding their babies in NHS posters, but the lack of information once that you face real problems to breastfeed. At that point they tell you it's your decision but you don't have the info to know if the problem can be helped or you really need to try alternative forms of feeding.

I believe that you will need to be very desinterested in everything around you to be unable to notice the Breast is Best Campaign as it's everywhere you go, we all know what is best, but those lovely posters of breastfeeding mothers saying things like "I enjoy breastfeeding my baby" are useless once you have tried everything and nothing it's working. I believe that campaign is more aimed at convincing people to try breastfeeding, but has nothing to do with keeping you in it once that you get stuck!

I'm in East Lancs and had fab support during and after DS's birth 17mths ago. A very patient and caring midwife spent most of the first night helping me to get DS latched on and I really felt that her expertise, empathetic (?) and professional approach helped me in those first weeks...can't really say if bottle feeding was ever mentioned as I had already stated that I wanted to breastfeed, but can't fault our local midwives/HV's one bit for their support on this and other issues...

I do bf counselling. Some of the questions & situations I get from mums show the complete lack of help many mums get and also the completely rubbish info they receive. My doc for the little ones doesn't even know how long I bf for!!! Never asked.

I never said that NCT doesn't provide support to non-members; I said that that was what my local branch told me (and I didn't then have any reason to disbelieve them).

That was my experience, in my part of the country, that's what the OP asked about in trying to argue that there is no shortage of support out there.

Here is Highlander's thread where she rants about lack of support given her cousin trying to breastfeed (baby born earlier this year). Makes grim reading...

NCT bf counselling has been going for well over 30 years. It has never been exclusive for members. The vast majority of the women I speak to have had no contact at all with NCT before making the call. It's a shame you were also misinformed, caligula.

However, there is no way volunteer breastfeeding counsellors from all the organisations could ever take on the role of plugging all the gaps in UK breastfeeding support. 450,000 women begin bf every year and at a rough guess there are no more than about 400 bfcs from all the organisations, none of whom is in a position to take up residence on a maternity unit, where many of the problems start (though many do visit and do valuable bedside support).

The answer is to ensure health professionals get properly trained.

Actually, I would settle for the worst of them stopping talking rubbish. That would be a start.

fqz, I know you didn't say it! That's why I said whoever had told you this had got it wrong. I'm dismayed to hear it was a branch....

My cil had a baby in Croydon and had no help to bf apart from being given lots of formula and a expressing machine but no one had to the time to show her how to use it. She had a c section so was there for several days. She really wanted to bf and in the end managed to express a little for a few weeks.

I had both kids in croydon and was told both times to give formula as they were big.

I do not understand this.

Everyone realises that breastmilk is better than formula milk for babies.

Are you seriously suggesting that midwives/hvs should hand out a list of the statistics and you weigh them up? Would statistical probability mean you decide to bottle feed over breast feed?

If you want to bottle feed, fine. I did from 6 months for dd2. But I never tried to argue or beg for reassurance that it was as good for her as breastmilk. You were reminded that breast is best because it is.

I firmly believe that all midwives and hvs should 'push' breastfeeding as much as possible.

ok, fair enough TT, i misunderstood what you were meaning to say.

I think the NCT branch where I used to live has changed, was just being factual about my experience (not that long ago in other respects).

As for practical support with bottlefeeding, I guess my area was relatively good. My 1999 (NHS-local authority) ante-natal class included a thorough demostration of how to make up formula; a baby had died recently in our area due to improperly made-up formula so local ante-natal classses were hot on this subject... a friend said that remembering the demo was a life-saver for her after she failed to 100% breastfeed.

No Enid, regarding statistics, it's not about breastfeeding or not, is obvious from this thread that most wanted to do it, tried it but there was not enough support to continue.

Every body knows that breast is best in the great majority of cases. It's about finding out whether you should continue trying in specially difficult circumstances OR about what formula is better for your baby, ie DS shouldn't have had certain formulas (like C&G or soya based formula because he is sensitive to some of the components), and nobody was able to tell us anything about them with exception of a paediatrician who specifically asked us not to say she had suggested one.

Well most people in my area are bottlefeeders. We have one of the lowest breastfeeding rates in the area and I know why.
My HV answer to any problem was "give her a bottle" as was everyone around me. At six months people start saying "You're still feeding?" and doctors tell you that you can stop now, that your child doesn't need it anymore anytime from six months on.
Nobody ever showed me how to position my baby correctly, although I was lucky and had no real problems early on. Yes, the breast is best slogan is all around, but qualified help to get through problems is very thin on the ground.
And doctors and health visitors need to be better informed about the benefits of feeding past 6 months.
They're all horrified now that I'm still feeding my little girl at 14 months, they make me feel like I'm doing something shameful! So now I don't tell them, thats not a supportive environment in my book.

Roxwood,it really saddens me that a lot of women on MN seem to keep extended b/feeding a secret,or at leat quiet. Doesn't that perpetuate the myth that it is odd?

I wasted no chance to tell people I was still b/feeding.

(BTW,I liked spidermama's response to the idea of 'extended'. She wonders how people would fell if you described stopping earlier as 'curtailed breastfeeding.')

I had ds1 in South London, there was no lack of support for b/f there. I had ds2 in Merseyside and again no lack of support there. The midwives were excellent in Merseyside though and when I got really upset with my dh I ended up saying "I'm only trying to b/f because he's making me" which was sooooo not the case and I was just very very very hormonal and they almost lynched dh and told him what an arse he must be!!!! He was scared to visit after that yes breast is best but they weren't going to let me be bullied and all power to them for that.

Eh? They weren't going to let you be bullied?
But you've just said he didn't.
Whaaaa?

I was being hormonal and gave them the impression that he was when he wasn't. Even though they were very very pro b/f and gave me massive support they stuck up for me when they thought I needed it. Not getting into an argument about this!

Neither am I. Just didn't understand your post.

hopefully you do now

Hi Moondog, I don't keep my breastfeeding secret from anyone else, I just don't feel like facing opposition from my particularly opinionated head-up-his-own-ass GP. The same one who told me I was risking my baby's life by choosing a home birth and was therefore a bad mother.
And don't get me started on health visitors.. grrr..

I breastfeed my little girl happily in front of my disapproving parents (which always makes me giggle when they cringe as she lifts my top) and anywhere in public whenever she asks for it.
I totally agree with you, the more its kept secret the less likely people are to grow to accept it as normal. Good for you for telling everyone! I always manage to work it into the conversation somehow as its fun to see people's responses!

I live in Sunderland and when I had my first child 7 years ago there was no support for breastfeeding at all. No support groups at all. There was a real feel from the health professionals that breastfeeders were weird and were only doing it to be a matyr.

I was lucky that my community midwife stayed with me for a couple of hours on her first visit and made sure that he had a really good feed. After that I was passed to the health visitor who was useless. She could not seem to believe that anyone would want to breastfeed and worked from the assumption that women only breastfed so that they did not feel guilty. Therefore, everytime I saw her she seemed to feel obliged to "give me permission" to stop. My son was just 3 weeks old the first time she told me that he had had all the goodness now and I could switch to bottles if I wanted to. The next week she suggested that if I did not want to stop completely I could top up after every feed. There was no medical reason for doing this as that week he had gained 12ozs. The next week I was told to use Milupa as it was just like breastmilk. She could not seem to understand that I wanted to breastfeed but she was starting to freak me out. She was making me feel as though I must be weird for wanting to breastfeed and I started to feel embarassed about breastfeeding.

Not long after this he stopped gaining weight. He was 8 weeks old at the time. My health visitor had gone on sick leave and I saw a different one. She believed that babies should be fed for 10 minutes on each side every 4 hours. She also made me do a test weigh, where he was weighed then fed and then weighed again. He was actually .5oz lighter on the second weigh - scales not very accurate then! She started coming to my house EVERY DAY to weigh the baby and tell me to switch to formula. At one point I was given 6 bottles of ready made formula to tide me over until the next day when I could buy some. Luckily my son refused the bottles, although at the time this was a nightmare. I had failed at breastfeeding and at bottlefeeding too. What should have been a lovely time with my first baby was a nightmare. At this point I saw my gp who was totally different. He reckoned the only problem with my baby was that he was being weighed too often and I was been put under too much pressure. He told me not to have the baby weighed for 4 weeks and told the health visitor to stop coming to my house everyday. She was not happy. However, 4 weeks later and my baby had gained nearly 2lbs.

I ended up breastfeeding him until he self-weaned at 22 months. I also breastfed my second child with a completely different set of problems (very sore, cracked and bleeding nipples). I'm now breastfeeding my third child (was 5 months old this week). This time I had a c-section and was border line for a blood transfusion (my Hb levels were just over 7). But breastfeeding was the one thing I could do as I didn't have to move!

This has become really long, so I'll stop now. Thanks for getting so far.

Mandy.

Blimey stardoman, that's awful!

Wow Stardoman, you're amazing for continuing to breastfeed with such bad health advice.

Hats off to you!!!

I hope people are not still having experiences like this.. I didn't get much help from HV and GP (but then I found a wonderful bf-ing counsellor and support group) but at least lo was 6 months before I was advised to stop.

'believe that when most of us refer to an informed decision we are not talking about the easy stuff that is displayed in Bounty leaflets or the smiling mothers breastfeeding their babies in NHS posters, but the lack of information once that you face real problems to breastfeed. At that point they tell you it's your decision but you don't have the info to know if the problem can be helped or you really need to try alternative forms of feeding.'

Too right, Chandra! I was told by one midwife I had a very good milk supply - now pregnant w/no. 2 and already lactating at 24 weeks.

But I found bf'ing INCREDIBLY painful. Finally, shortly after midnight a day after DD was born, I was given the option to formula feed. No other suggestions were presented to me. I'd never heard of nipple shields or expressing.

Exhausted, depressed, in pain and having been left in complete control of a newborn after 24 hours of labour w/NO hydration at all whatsoever and no relief, I gave in. I felt incredibly guilty.

Sadly I think this is still happening. I run the NCT parent and toddler group in my area. Last year I wrote my story for the local NCT newsletter and the week I gave the newsletter out with my story 4 women came up to me in tears. They all had a really similar story to tell and had switched to bottles. However, they all succesfully breastfed their next children (one of them has 4 children and she breastfed the last 3). The key to breastfeeding in my area seems to be avoiding health visitors!!!

I've just started going to the breastfeeding support group in my area with my 3rd child. Its just been setup and I'm the first mum to attend. Things haven't changed. Just chatting informally to the health visitor which runs it the other week and she seems to have the same problem in understanding that women do want to breastfeed. And this is at a breastfeeding support group. Also the group is only on twice a month. Why can't it at least be weekly?

Maybe I am weird for breastfeeding and the only mum in the whole world who wants to. But I don't think I am.

Mandy.

Definitely breastfeeding support groups need to be AT LEAST weekly! So much can happen in a week for new Mums that often someone comes one week and things are going well then they never come again and we hear they gave up because of a problem and bad advice before they could get to us again.