failing to BF and devastated - Help

[ninaandbean]

My LO is just two weeks and three days old and I'm failing to breastfeed. Its been one giant disaster since day one, I keep trying to persevere but it's not working and I feel horrible, really truly devastated. It's like it's the one thing i thought I'd be able to do for him and I can't :( I've been expressing exclusively for four days now, and my supply has dropped from 70ml per express to less than 10. I can feel my breasts are empty and I just want to scream with frustration.

LO was two weeks early after a v difficult pregnancy. I was badly affected by SPD while preggers (on crutches and unable to walk/sleep/work) so had to take codeine at the end of the pregnancy. This put LO into withdrawal after a horrible delivery, we had emergency forceps in theatre and I was terrified by the whole thing. He was too sleepy and then too sensitive to feed for two whole days, so was supplemented by formula in hospital. Then we spent three days with him jaundiced, basically nibbling my nipples but not feeding. I ended up not just cracked but with open weeping bleeding raw nipples and my milk failed to come in :(.

After a week of that, he had a tongue tie cut and I tried shields, so we could feed but it was agony and I wasn't healing at all. To top it all off I got mastitis. My HV told me to give myself a break, to heal, and just express for a few days which I have reluctantly done, but now my milk is drying up, he won't feed from me, and when I've tried to latch him back on it's still agony. I've gone from sobbing at every feed because I'm scared to put him on and in huge pain, to sobbing from guilt from not feeding him BF.

Has anyone else gone through this? I feel ashamed, embarrassed, really upset and disappointed that I can't seem to get this right. I just want to feed my baby but I feel like on top of everything else, months of pregnancy pain and a horrible delivery, now I just have months of more pain ahead of me trying to establish breast feeding... or, I can give up. But if I give up and just formula feed him, I will feel like the worst mum ever. Is this normal? i know hundreds of women just FF and their babies are fine, but I can't seem to get over this and move on.

I'm sick of crying and feeling like such a huge failure, it's stopping me from enjoying being a mum. Then to cap it all off, I feel like I'm letting him down by being an emotional wreck on top of not being able to feed him, and putting him through withdrawal and everything else!

I know I'm being hard on myself but I just can't get over it. Help

thank you tiktok, for some reason your reply made me all teary again. Its good to know bfc's won't think badly of me for not doing it, (even though I do myself) and i really do want to persevere with expressing at least. To me it feels like a conpromise that could work for our family but I feel like I'm making it up as I go along and want to make sure I don't 'dry up' if I can possibly avoid it. I'll give them a call tomorrow. As for MIL, well, lets just say this isn't the only time or situation where DH has opted out of setting boundaries. It's an ongoing saga... stil, that's another topic entirely and I won't go there.

ninaandbean what a story you sound like you are a fighter and a fab mum so don't even think that you're not.

It makes me so cross that MW/HV and other professionals seem to imply that bf is easy when you are pregnant so you have a "rosy" image of it then are completely shocked if it is not.. with all the guilty feelings that are not helpful when you are knackered, sore and just want to do your best for your baby.

My dd now 5 and half months was 5 weeks prem and was in special care for a while. She lost weight when i just bf so we "topped up" with formula from the beginning and she is now a cracking 15lbs something! I have had shocking days when she wouldn't latch on and dh had to take her away from me and give formula, but a few weeks later when we were both relaxed and happy bf was fine. I am lucky in that she switched between bf and ff easily.

A breastfeeding counsellor would help, how about your MW would you be able to talk to her? I have found the MW easier than HV to talk to about bf. Also, would your partner ff one night to let you have a good night sleep - you may find that you have more milk in the morning and then easier for baby to latch on. Everything is also better after a good night sleep!

Whatever you decide to do, just remember if it works for you and your baby, it is right.

Nina - I have just realised I have only read your very first post - so ignore my third para! Be strong with the MIL - it can be difficult.

I have now finished bf (about 4 days ago, dropped a feed gradually even though was topping up at every feed) and was always rubbish at expressing, I only ever got more than 100ml once and that was after I'd had a drink so had to throw it away argh!

I totally understand you feeling anxious about it all. I am also wondering whether I should start bf again as I still have some milk.. but baby is so happy being totally ff that I feel I'm being selfish for even considering it! In my heart I know I have made the right decision but it doesn't make the guilt go away!

I do wonder whether a bottle feeding support group would be worthwhile setting up - what do you thing? as so many people I speak to have the same feelings..

I would really like to have a support group for ppl in this situation. I know some mums choose to FF from birth and feel just fine about it, but for those of us who find we fall back on it and don't feel so good it would be really good to share feelings and tips on how to keep feeding time a real bonding experience, and deal with other peoples opinions. How do you go about setting one up?

Ninaandbean - just wanted to pop in and say, first of all, how glad I was to read that things are feeling easier with the new feeding strategy. Secondly, I expressed for my first DD and alhtough as you say it was hard at the beginning to even find chance to do it, I'm glad I kept up expressing because it actually ended up as a really good solution for our family. Obviously, I am by no means trying to put on any pressure for you to keep expressing if it's not right for you. I realise, however, that there's not much information about long-term expressing out there so wanted to share my positive experience with it. In the end I kept up expressing for 14 months and I'm extremely happy I did. The following things helped me and might help you if you feel that you want to keep going with it.

• the knowledge that a small amount of breastmilk per day can confer loads of the benefits of exclusive breastfeeding
• renting a double-sided breastpump from medela.co.uk which meant I could express from both sides at once and made expressing really quite fast
• keeping my pump parts in the fridge between feedings so I didn't have to clean them after every pumping session
• doing some breast massage at the same time as expressing (rub from outside of breast towards nipple in gentle circles)
• feeling proud of myself that every day that I gave even a little bit of breastmilk was a triumph and confident that I could stop when I wanted if it stopped being the right thing for us all. Sorry ... all that was a bit muddled but I hope there's something in there that might be of help.

Ninaandbean, just wanted to say, you are definitely not mad! This last few weeks has been an emotional rollercoaster for me, as regards b'feeding, and everything you have written in your posts rings true for me. I have got past the idea that there is a chance to carry on breastfeeding - my nipples are too painful for that. I am still expressing a little, mainly to try and stave off further mastitis, but now I am thinking that it would be good if I could keep it up a little. Expressing is agony for me though, not as painful as b'feeding, but pretty bad. I express fed dd1 dor a few months, but found it hard to keep up, not sure how I would manage with dds and ds and expressing, but we'll see. What you describe with your MIL, sounds very familiar, my mum was desperate to feed dd, and was very hurt when I said that I'd rather do it myself at the beginning. I explained to her how devestated I was not to b'feed, and that whilst she was so little I just felt I had to do it myself. She was ok, but I know she will be the same with ds, when she comes to stay next week. I think I'll ask if she wants to change his nappies as a bonding experience instead!

Anyway, I have turned this into a post all about ME - sorry. You sound like such a thoughtful and caring mum, so please don't beat yourself up.

A thread to support mums who have had to give up b'feeding after a struggle, sounds like a good idea to me. Somewhere to chat about feelings, worries about feeding future los, talk about expressing etc. If you want to set one up, I'll be there

having another low day. Everywhere I look to find out about FF I'm bombarded with the 'breast is best' campaign. I called a BFC to talk things through but other than agreeing I need to be able to grieve over the situation, I'm not sure it helped - all I seemed to do was cry my heart out about it again. She told me that statistically more babies in the UK are FF than BF and they are all fine, and it wasn't fair that the breast is best campaign can't make allowances for ppl who through no fault of their own can't BF, but I still struggle to accept that I'm not a bad person for not managing it.

My best friend has just announced she is pregnant, which is fantastic, but I've not seen much of her in late pregnancy/since the birth (she lives in another county) and so she's not been aware really of the struggles I've had with feeding. I don't want to share it now with her, as it's such a horror story and that seems very neg when someone is looking forward to pregnancy and BF etc afterwards. But we spoke for ages last night and she was telling me all about how excited she is and would 'of course' be BF etc... I felt exactly the same and said exactly the same when I was 13 weeks pg so I can hardly blame her, but I felt so rotten afterwards. Rotten and jealous and sad. And more guilt for feeling that way again.

I went out to buy some more bottles today as I've only had the medela ones from my pump to use, and I need some more robust ones. The little medela ones are ok but the teats seem to have degraded in my milton solution (does anyone else have that problem?) and he gets loads of wind with them, so I was looking for anti colic ones. I've got the Avent bottles for now... but even that makes me want to cry. I didn't want to have to know about all of this yet and I feel angry and frustrated about it all. And scared - the only information I can find about FF keeps banging on about risks of food poisoning and how dangerous it is if prepared wrong, and how you can over feed your baby and make him obese as a child... its all really scary! DS wants 8 bottles a day (3 hourly on the dot) of 4oz each time and crys and won't settle on less, but the Aptamil box says for his age/size he should only have 5. Should I be giving him less? And when you go out, how the hell do you manage the whole 70degree/boiling water situation?? I need advice and support but I'm still so upset I find it hard to even ask.

I hope I can get back to feeling positive again soon. fighting back tears again and its just such a crappy feeling to be like this all the time :( think I need to practice being positive and grateful.
I am grateful DS is here, healthy and happy.
I am grateful that FF is an option and DS isn't going hungry.
I am grateful that I will recover from the pregnancy and birth and can manage without crutches now.
I am grateful for my wonderful DH and loving friends and family who all support me.
I am grateful to be able to vent it here and find people who understand!

Gah.

Keeping on keeping on.

hi just wanted to answer the formula feeding questions:
my last three babies were formula fed we used a mix of bottles and didnt find any difference in them at all in be they the incredibly expensive dr browns ones or a two pack from the pound shop!.
In terms of making the feeds up I am not recommending you do this because last time I posted this I was accused of all sorts including neglect (lol) but I just made the feeds up ahead (say make 4 bottles at a time) and put them in the fridge then warmed them in the microwave. In my opnion the current guideline are impossible to follow properly unless you schedule feeds which is also not recommended. But it really is down to you how you follow it.

In terms of what he is drinking I would give him as much as he wants all babies are different so the guidelines are only a rough idea.

oh and the only time any of my children had food poisoning was my daughter who got e coli at nursery from their much advertised "organic" lunches - so never from formula.

I dont know if anyone else has suggested in the rest of the threads but it might be worth visiting your gp as you sound very very down in general not only about breastfeeding. Sorry Im not great at this sort of thing butI hope you feel better soon.

thanks fernie3, advice is v helpful. It's always good to have someone who has been there tell you what works! Have been making up one bottle and refrigerating it on HV's advice just for the night feed, but wasn't sure if that was a good idea. Its much more practical though! I tend to have 'worst case scenario' stuff on my mind but I think thats normal new mum anxiety? I don't mean to be obsessing about disasters its just hard to find much positive press re: ff. I've checked out the Fearless Formula Feeder blog tho which cheered me up :) great blog!

I did see my GP last week but she doesn't think my mood is anything to worry about. I don't mean to sound so down on everything its just nice to be able to be honest somewhere and my DH doesn't really understand (which is fair enough!) so I've been venting on here. I really appreciate the support and advice from everyone, so thank you for replying!

Hello Nina

I agree about the bottles, dd1 had colic and ds has reflux, and tbh, I found no difference with Dr Browns, so this time I have gone with Avent (on offer at Tescos!) as they are easy to keep clean, and compatible with lots of other Avent stuff we have. Their microwave steriliser is on offer at Tesco's too (half price) and I have found his really useful.

I make up each feed individually, or use cartons. Methods I use are these :

1)Boil and cool water you need (eg 4oz) in sterilised bottle, put in fridge, when it is time for feed, microwave until >70 degrees (approx 1 minute in my microwave) add formula (premeasured in formula dispenser - another invaluable bit of kit!), shake and stick in sink of water with a couple of ice packs in - cools in a couple of mins.

2)keep a bottle of cooled boiled water in fridge. Have a flask (more kit) of >70 degree water in a flask. For a 5 oz feed, add 2oz of flask water to sterilised bottle, add 5 scoops premeasured, shake, then add 3oz water from cooled boiled water - should be right temp to feed. (I use this method or cartons when going out)

The amount you are feeding sounds about right to me, ds (6 weeks) is having 4/5 oz every 3/4 hours 7 or 8 times a day, and feeding when he wants to, and the amount he wants - I wouldn't worry about the side of the box. Dd1 used to have tiny amounts every 2 hours (exhausting), and dd2 used to have tons, never stopped! They are both pretty normal size now, certainly not obese (they are 3 and 4).

As for your friend, it is hard, time will help. A lot of my friends have b'fed, and I feel really happy that they could do it - they were also really helpful and supportive when I tried with dd1/2 and ds, and have been the first to call and offer sympathy this last couple of weeks, because they know how hard it is, and what a hugely emotional thing it is.

I just sat and fed ds in the car whilst waiting for dh and the girls, I was listening to Nightswimming by REM, and it was raining, and it sounds very corny, but I was overwhelmed by how lovely it all was, and how lucky I was, and it didn't even enter my mind that I was giving him a bottle, it was just a perfect moment. Heres wishing you lots of those

Nina, a few years ago I posted about the 'breastfeeding ticket' and the bottle feeding bus.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=1364&threadid=274983#5504964

It has helped some people with this feeling of sadness and personal blame they get when they really wanted to bf and it didn't work out.

I'm glad you called a breastfeeding line but one phone call to a helpline will not wipe out the strong feelings you are experiencing. It may be you need to work through them more formally, or find someone in real life who can listen again and again. It is not at all unusual that women feel oppressed by 'the breast is best campaign' - in fact, there is no campaign. There are public health initiatives and occasional local forays into publicity for breastfeeding, but there is no actual campaign, still less one that bombards people when they need info about ff...but this is how it can feel to women. When you are grieving, every picture of a bf woman, every slogan, every leaflet, even a friend who wants to breastfeed, can feel like a personal comment on you for not breastfeeding and it is horrible :( :( It is illogical, for sure, but feelings are not always logical!

You might also find support at MOBI

www.mobimotherhood.org/MM/default.aspx
I hope you get the support you need :(

I haven't read all the replies so sorry if I repeat anything said before but I just felt I should say that the moment I gave up breastfeeding and accepted I was going to FF was the BEST thing I have ever done for my baby and myself! God it's still hard to actually say those words but it is the honest truth!

I won't go into the long story of how things didn't work out bf but I will say that for days I could barely see because my eyes were so puffed up from crying and I can still remember the desperate terror of feeling as though my baby was literally starving in front of me! I had excellent support and advice from all sorts of professionals but if I'm honest I needed someone to say "It's ok if you give your ds some formula." I finally gave in before two weeks and I can picture the moment my dh gave our ds his first bottle so clearly! The relief when the pink came to our ds's cheeks! My decision was made from that moment on and I have had easily the best 6 months of my life since then. My ds is happy, gorgeous and healthy. I do still feel a bit embarrassed whenever the subject of bf comes up but have made myself feel better by taking loads of care on ds's meals now that he is weaning.

It is such a shame if the wonderful early weeks/months with a new baby are spoilt with guilt! Don't let that happen! FF is fine! Enjoy your beautiful baby!

hazeyjane - method 2 works well, I've got all my evening/night bottles lined up and water in the fridge. Positive action makes me feel a lot better! I'm a bit of a control freak I think (!) and I don't like feeling like I'm bimbling about in the dark - having some method instead of my madness is a good, good thing.

tiktok - thanks for the link, looks like lots of things I can relate to on there :)and thank you for the well wishes. I'll get past it I know, and being able to share it is helping.

Elvisana - I know how you feel, it's hard to admit but I can, if I try, honestly see that FF is better for our family right now. No matter how much I want the opposite to be true even I can admit that it's working better. DH is sat with DS now after a lovely bath, a little baby massage and is now giving DS his evening bottle. I can honestly say it's a lovely picture and DH is bonding so well I can see the benefits. Its just the emotional stuff around my own expectations that I am still up and down with, but I definitely feel like you - I really needed someone to say "it's ok to give your DS some formula" too!! And the embarassment etc well, I'm hoping it will fade. I don't want to wish away these moments either, or lose them in a haze of tears and guilt and fear.

I have also managed to cook dinner for me and DH tonight which is a good thing, I seem to be surfacing from the haze and getting on with feeding other people as well as DS which can only be progress! I appreciate the pep talks/boosts from you guys, they really help!

Reading your posts has brought tears to my eyes as I went through something similar with DD who is now 5.5 mths. Although sounds like I didn't have it nearly as tough as you but didn't persevere for anywhere near as long as you did!
I always assumed I would BF and having been to various antenatal classes and read all the "breast is best" type leaflets I assumed anything else would actually be harming my baby. But for numerous reasons (week long labour, traumatic assisted delivery, no support in hospital, very low-birthweight baby not latching on, cracked nipples...) I felt far too traumatised to persevere with BF and ended up FF, then beat myself up about it for weeks afterwards. It was only when I realised I had to "let go" of my BF sadness that I could really start to bond with DD. She is now a gorgeous bundle of joy and I am constantly overwhelmed by how much I love her.
We wanted follow the guidelines & make each feed up fresh & have got it down to a fine art! We boil the kettle and pour it into the bottle straight away, add the formula & shake then stand it in a washing up bowl of cold water that is as deep as the formula in the bottle - it cools in less than ten mins. Out & about is a bit harder. We pack up sterilised bottles in freezer zip-lock bags. We have a good thermos that keeps the water very hot for up to about 6 hours, we make each feed up fresh about half an hour before we think DD will need it and if it isn't cool enough by the time she needs it then I pop into the ladies and hold it under a cold tap for a couple of minutes whilst shaking it. I have never seen anyone else doing this but it works for us!
DD was very colicky from 3 weeks to 4 months, she screamed & screamed from 10pm to 2am every night and I distinctly remember DH & I in a zombie like state passing each other as we changed shifts in the early hours and agreeing that we could never put ourselves through this again and we would stick with the one child. But now we are through that stage and DD is just amazing we are already talking about no.2 & maybe even no. 3 after that!
Its so difficult to believe when you are in the middle of it but you are not going to feel like this forever. I felt so traumatised & guilty for a good few months and wish I had done the same as you and reached out for help on MN. I expected to be judged for not BF but found that for most people it just wasn't an issue and the only person judging me was myself (and MIL but that is another story!). Soon you'll look back at this time and just feel so proud of having coped with such a difficult situation, and then you & DH will start thinking of no.2 & 3 & ...:)
PS I think a thread for people coping with guilt of switching to FF is a fab idea!

ninaandbean - my sister desperately wanted to breastfeed her twins but she had supply issues. She formula fed and her babies had a bottle of EBM a day. She expressed and froze milk until she had enough for an exclusive EBM day when they were 5 months old. She stopped expressing when they were 6 months old and she did find that she had good breastfeeding experiences during that time. Twin 1 did not breastfeed well but twin 2 did occasionally. For her, the fact that her babies had some breast milk daily helped her formula feed. She used Domperidone to boost her supply which helped. It does not need to be exclusive bottle feeding if that helps. My sister really enjoyed her breastfeeds without being under pressure to try exclusively breast feeding. Thought I would share experience if that helps in any way.

nina just wanted to give you a little wave, have been following from your first post but not actually posted myself as you were given some really great advice. Just wanted to say think you are doing really well, and hope you and lo are having a good day.

Ps both my dds were ff and they are fabulous, healthy, funny, clever, not troubled by tummy bugs, asthma, eczema etc, maybe a touch too loud sometimes

Bumping Nina x

Nina I hope you're ok - I have to say that I only lasted 10 days with breastfeeding after a terrible time with it. Shields, cracked nipples, awful problems latching on, dreadful results with expressing. What was most difficult was coming to terms with the fact that I really needed to give my baby formula & that breastfeeding wasn't going to work for me. I so wanted to breastfeed & expected to be able to. I didn't entertain the possibility of formula feeding at all before giving up.

I have to disagree with all the well-meaning people here telling you to seek more breastfeeding support. There is a time to call it a day and you sound like you just need someone to give you permission to stop this. What you need to realise is that the only person you need permission from is you. Formula is not bad for your baby. It is nutritious and no doubt your baby will thrive on it. Mine has & I have never regretted stopping. Life is about to get better.

thank you - really, I appreciate it MissBonpoint - I am realising as you say, I need to give myself permission to stop, or at least permission to just do what I can. Today that means I have expressed twice (9am and 4pm) and am about to do one more before bed, I've got about 4oz so far. It's not much, but it's not nothing. It's not taking over my life, but I'm still doing something to allow myself my own personal BF journey, winding down though it may be. Yesterday I was going to stop expressing all together. Today I've decided to just do what works for me, just for today, and keep it in the day. I can't realistically do what exclusively EBF mums do, I know that, and I realise this means my supply won't increase or go on forever, and my well disappear very soon. But just for today something is better than nothing, and it allows me to give LO at least a little bit of me as well. I know returning to BF isn't realistic either. But I did put LO to my breast today, for a 'goodbye feed'. He nursed for about 20 mins quietly, it was tender but didn't agonisingly hurt (nipples are almost healed now) and we had a lovely quiet moment together. I was able to do that without crying hysterically or from pain, and in a way, I took that chance to experience something positive with BF - even though straight after we made a bottle and gave DS a feed regardless - it just meant something to me to have one time where I wasn't forcing it to work, or in the crazy post birth emotional rollercoaster. And to NOT have at the back of my mind 'I have to do this again and again and AGAIN' but just to do it once.

I am reconciling my experiences as a REAL mummy with my imagined life as a mummy and realising it's not as simple as I thought it would be, but in all the ups and downs I am seeing my baby clearly now - my chubby, gorgeous, peaceful little boy - who is clearly not about to drop off the lowest percentile any more (in the 9th now) and is more scrumptious with every passing day. Reading all the Fearless Formula Feeder's blog Friday stories in one go really helped!! And all of your lovely, kind and supportive posts here that make me feel FAR less like a failure and much more like a mum.

x

PS to everyone i've not directly thanked or replied to I just want to say - every single one of you has made me feel better, whatever advice you've given, just by taking the time to reply. I have really been surprised and overwhelmed that so many of you have taken the time to say something supportive and it's really helped me to realise that no-one is criticising me here except me! My fears that other mums will judge me have proved entirely unfounded. You guys ROCK! so here's a big thank you! THANK YOU! :)

Good for you! You sound like you're doing great. Incidentally, we were in the 9th too! Now somewhere between the 25th & 50th and enjoying weaning!

Just seen this. I've been through similar 6 years ago, even down to doing the odd express/bf after I had stopped bfing. In my experience, once people with similar aged babies started weaning, I found it easier, as I felt I was doing more of the same stuff feeding wise. And 6 years on, I am absolutely fine about it all - it does take time not to feel guilty/defensive etc, as a recent poster said, it's you and noone else who needs to give you permission to have stopped bfing. If you are happy doing the odd express/bf then I'm not going to say quit that - I gave up bfing completely around 8 weeks as I wanted to go back on the combined Pill.

congratulations, and good luck with it all.

hey there all - I have just started a thread called "Support for those FF" that I hope will be useful for people to chat on.

thanks galonthefarm :) it's a great thread.

Just a little update... we are doing so much better. Last night me and Austin were up in the wee hours for three feeds, and it was such a lovely snuggly experience. I'm getting good at making up bottles just in time for his next feed, and reading his cues better, he's doing brilliantly. I am starting to feel like we're actually getting along pretty well. I've spoken to hubby and feeding is now something only we do, in reality DH gives one bottle a day and I do the rest - so feeding time is still special mummy and DS time, I'm getting more confident as well. All the FF threads that have appeared have really helped. As has getting some sleep and speaking to RF friends who have had mixed experiences with BF - I'm happy for those who it's worked for, but have a lot more realistic sense of how hard it is for so many women, so I feel less of a freak that I couldn't do it (this time!)

Actually a friend who has been having a hard time recently with BF confided in me about her struggles simply because I CAN understand, which was kinda amazing. The guilty feelings are def fading. LO is one month today :) what a rollercoaster four weeks!!