I'm curious, do other routine conscious mums struggle with breastfeeding on demand?

[gaelicsheep]

I am slowly going mad with the constant uncertainty of it all. I'm getting nothing done in the house, completely ignoring my poor 4 year old DS much of the time, and it is driving my to distraction!

I definitely lean towards having my day led at least loosely by a schedule but every time I think we're getting there we'll have a day like today and I'll be climbing the walls again. I'm fantasising about bottle feeding and having DD take a full feed at once with some time in between.

I'm a bit of a control freak at heart I guess and I can't stand the chaotic nature of our days at the moment. I feel like my head is swimming with all the things I can't even start to get done. Does anyone else feel like this? Or is successful breastfeeding self-selecting to more chilled out women?

oh i totally feel the same, i have had DS on a good routine of 3 hourly feeds, he's 12 weeks old. i BF on demand for the first 5 weeks cos i think its important at first to get your milk supply regulated but then i put him on a routine. now when i've had to BF on demand i find it so hard! at moment i'm kind of doing it because he's not been feeding well this week so he's hungry at different times to usual and also now my milk supply has gone down because of his poor feeding earlier this week so i have to BF more to get my supply going again. i'm finding it really hard. interestingly not as hard as the first time i had to revert to it after DS was on a routine though- i think because i saw how quick the results were in regaining my milk supply when i did BF on demand. but i dont think i could do it all the time, and i know DS doesn't suffer as a result from the routine, he just gets what he needs at proper times.

I prefer routines and am EBFing.

I don't think GF routine is particularly good for EBFing as the gaps between feeds are too long.

I loosely aim for 3 hourly feeds eg 7am 10am 1pm etc etc but would never try and stretch him if he's hungry. More often that I fed him before he demands it. After 3 hours he is generally happy to eat. After 4 he'd be demanding it.

Every so often he has a growth spurt and demands before the 3 hours are up and I end up feeding all afternoon again.

But he's 3.5 months now and feeds are MUCH shorter eg only 15 mins so more than 2.5 hours inbetween. How old is your DD?

I also felt like this. Thought I'd be chilled out and go with the flo, but I craved structure.

In the end, we went with a routine but not a schedule, i.e. did cycles where everything was done in the same order.

Of course, things came along every now and then to mess it all up, but I continued with the aim.

I'd say that I'm really NOT a chilled out person, but we're now at 5 months and not a drop of formula, though I'm back at work and now on a expressing schedule, so guess I got my structure after all (well Monday to Friday anyway).

Ilove schedules and am very organised but accepted that it was not fair to impose a routine that convenienced me more then the baby on a child with a tiny stomach the size of awalnut.

After awhile, it settles down anyway.
A feed isso much more thanfood, it is adrink and human contact too. A good if sobering way to look at it is to ask if you yourslef would be happy to go for 3/4 hours without anything to eat/drink and possibly little human interaction.

I EBF on demand but by the time DS was on three naps a day it had evolved to a feed upon waking & a feed upon going to sleep, unless he seemed particularly hungry or upset. I offered at these times which was quite frequent really as only awake for around 2-3hrs at a time so he didn't need to have little top ups throughout his awake periods. Then once food started some of these feeds dropped to be replaced by snacks/cow milk. I was pretty rigorous about scheduling naps to within 30mins of what time I thought they should be, except when dropping naps.

Sorry but one question, I crave routine with DS (now 22 weeks but 11 corrected as he was prem) how on earth do you get one... I think we are doing well when we manage a gap of 2 to 2 and a half hours. 90 mins is just as likely. The only way I can get the gaps longer is by topping up with expressed milk and my freezer stash is runnning low as I am no longer expressing enough to make up the difference even with demand feeding most of the time.

Kittie Frantz is a US author and breastfeeding advocate and (I think) an adviser to LLL. One of her quotes is 'you're not managing an inconvenience, you're raising a human being' :) :) :)

It sounds a bit more judgey than I would like but the sentiment is simply true. Babies, especially young babies, have untimetable-able needs. That's the biology of it. Their needs are also great (because they are young) and important ( they need their needs responded to in order to build relationships, confidence, trust, and in fact their ability to learn and take a full place in the world). It is actually easier for adults to accommodate these needs - 'cos we can think, adapt, plan work-rounds, and anticipate a future when things will be different....all things a baby cannot do.

I also think it is easier on a practical level, because anything you do to try and stretch gaps between feeds is harder work - you have to express and store, clean bottles and teats, and if you give formula, there is that to buy, store, prepare.

Going with the flow has a lot to say for it!

hilda - your baby was very prem and is doing so well....do you think your feelings of 'craving' for a routine might be related to all those feelings you had when he was tiny and struggling, and you long for the time when he appears as strong, robust and as big as other 4.5 mth babies, and that a routine with longer gaps between feeds might make you feel you'd got ther?

Just a thought!

You will, of course, get a routine in the end :)

this thread is very timely! I was just beginning to feel this way with my 7 week old dd, she is awake all evening until at least 10.30 feeding off and on. I will go with the flow . Tiktok, can I hijack and ask if you have any tips for ebf babies to take a bottle (of express). I've bought the Tommee tippee bottles but she doesn't seem to like them, I just want to know that she will take the odd bottle ....

This may be off topic a bit, sorry if it is...and my thinking is a bit muddy cos I'm a bit tired! -

But as a 1st time mum and BF newbie (DS is 3 weeks), I'm feeling a bit like BF is dominated by EITHER BF on demand, as in 'offer boobs at 1st possible sign of hunger', OR 'routine', with all the GF overtones of military precision and strict timetabling.

Isn't there some sort of a middle ground?

Virtually every BF and FF mother I've actually spoken to has talked about strategies for offering entertainment/distraction to their DCs in order to slightly lengthen the intervals they go before another feed. And only a few of them are 'routine' conscious, most really aren't at all.

Maybe I've misunderstood things, so go easy on me.... I've been feeding not so much on demand as at the first hint! And my DS is thriving, but both MW and HV have advised that while I never ever let him cry and go hungry, at 3 weeks plus, it's ok to try distraction and give him to DP (who does not have boobs) to see if he can go a few minutes more between feeds, feed a little more 'efficiently' when latched on, and in the long run, get feeds spaced out a little more. And yes, maybe get feeds a little more 'regular' and defined.

I'm not a routine-y person by habit, so I'm not feeling pressure to have a 'timetable'. But I only enjoy some of all the endless sitting on the sofa/laying in bed for hours feeding IF I've had 30 minutes to stretch my legs, get some fresh air and a change of scenery. It's not that I can't get DP to hang the washing out - I WANT to, even if it takes me 8 attempts to get it all done! Just for a change of activity. I don't feel like that makes me 'routine-y' or that I'm anti-BF on demand, at all. Just that feeling completely like a hostage on the sofa makes me miserable, not to mention stiff and crampy.

[Disclaimer in case I get flamed - my DS has had nothing but boob milk so far, he's putting on wieght fabulously well, we've been through 2 growth spurts and umpteen cluster feeds together, I'm very lucky in having no nipple soreness/other breast troubles...I've no desire for a 'schedule' in the GF sense, couldn't cope with it if I had one! so overall, I'd say we are doing pretty well and mostly happily - I'm just saying that I'm starting to think there's a bit more to BF - and FF I guess - than either being a 'control freak' or being totally 'laid back' about living chaotically and having absolutely no time for yourself.]

PS another disclaimer sorry (I'm really nervous posting on this board, oddly) -

I think for a newborn, I can't really imagine anything other than feeding totally on demand/hint/imagined hunger cue - I'm looking at it as not just them having to top up very tiny tummies, but also my DS 'telling' my body how much he wants! He's been a good feeder from the start, so I'm happy to think that he knows what he's doing and how much he needs, IYSWIM.

I guess I'm thinking more about 'when is a newborn not a newborn', and when feeding on demand means not letting him snack constantly, but feeding when he's actually hungry and can get a bit more of a meal down him. gaelicsheep, I'm not sure how old your DD is, she may be well past newborn...

Personally I can't bear the thought of a routine because I hate having to do stuff at a certain time.

The only "routine" we have is bedtime and even that can vary from 6pm-9pm if at home and gets thrown out completely if we are out.

Barkfox, fair points. I identify completely with your whole 'needing a change of scene' thing.

I'm not big on routines and was perfectly happy to go with the flow in the early days, but I did find that a routine emerged eventually. Now that he is bigger, DS tends to want to feed at the same times each day, so I can vaguely plan my day around that. This has happened quite naturally and is not something I have imposed on him.

I used to get stressed about the housework not being done but it helped me to realise that my main job is DS and not the housework. Most of the housework gets done eventually and I have pretty much ceased to care about the bits that don't.

gaelicsheep - so sorry, I should have said: I really do sympathise with the head-swimmy feeling of "getting nothing done". It is hard, it really is, but it passes...

Barkfox - in terms of beginning routines we started at around 6-8wks to have a bedtime routine of bath & feed at around about the same time each night then gradually built on that until around 3-4mths babe was on three naps at around about the same time each time. I never tried to extend the gap between feeds unless I needed the loo before starting a feed! & remember cringing at hearing other mums would take their babes out for a walk in the pram to try to distract them until it was time for their feed.

I think your post describes very well the situation of having a newborn! I think a new mum shouild have no expectations of doing anything other than caring for babe & very basically taking care of herself for the first 6 weeks or so, which is generally at odds with lifestyle, amount of support, etc these days. I was sort of lucky in that I was quite poorly after the birth so had an enforced "babymoon" of 6weeks where I couldn't do anything other than the essential basics.

Did you know that in other (more sensible?) cultures, a new mum is expected to do nothing except feed the baby for the first 6 weeks or so. Her mum and/or MIL and sisters come round and do all the cleaning and cooking so that she can recover from the birth and get her milk supply properly established. Cool hey?

That's v interesting elvisgirl/greenbananas - I guess the key thing (obvious when I think about it of course) is that the gap between feeds gets longer as babies' tummies get bigger, and they can 'store' more at each feed.

(I found this link www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkcalc.html fascinating, esp the photos of growing amounts babies can get down as they get older]]

So ideally 'routine' evolves out of longer gaps between feeds/more regular or predictable feeds, rather than the other way round. IYSWIM. And if we're lucky, and that's the way our individual babies roll. In between growth spurts, teething, random fussiness and cluster feeds...ho ho.

Not to hijack the thread completely - if there's a difference in experience of BF-ing on demand between 'routine conscious' mums and those for whom time has no meaning...

I think there's a big difference between mums who can find a lot to enjoy in being stuck on a sofa/in bed BF-ing, and those who aren't natural couch potatoes. As a naturally active person who is recovering very quickly and well from a CS, I'm not thinking 'ooh, great, an opportunity to sit inside on this nice sunny day and watch DVD box sets while my DS may/may not feed every half hour', I'm thinking, 'nice long walk and fresh air please'. The only time I've been stuck in the house/to the sofa this much in the past has been when I've been clinically depressed!

HOWEVER - I ain't moaning too much (I hope). I know it's only for a short time etc, and I do count my blessings when I read some of the very unhappy posts on here. And I'm just getting the hang of buggy strolls, so me and DS can both get some fresh air and scenery changes...

Oh - and the big thing I left out, as this is my 1st DC -

I literally have no idea how mums with older DC's BF on demand. Unless they have a formidable support team. A squadron, in fact.

DS is 10 months old now and has his 3 meals a day bang on schedule. I kind of long for teh days when he just decided he was hungry so I could just whip up my top, feed him and get on with something else. Now, putting him in teh chiar, cooking food, feeding (and being 'helped' by Ds), clearing it all away again takes ages!

However, I do remember getting really pissed off around the 2/3 month mark and wishing he'd go longer between feeds or have a routine. Just go with it, because v soon, when he's crawling away from you and refusing the boob, you'll be wishing for cuddle time again!

PS just cos there's no routine it doesn't mean you have to be stuck in the house; I've fed DS in lots of places - including up a mountain - and a friend of mine once fed one of hers in a supermarket queue with no one any the wiser!

I agree with the routine beginning around 6 weeks - and only in a mild way - e.g. bath, feed, bed to start with. I tried this with DS1, and definitely aimed for a 3 hour gap between feeds, as you have mentioned, by using distraction techniques.

However, with subsequent DCs, I have had no real routine in terms of feeding, and I think that is BECAUSE I have older DCs. To me, it it easier to demand feed with older ones, as you can carry on with the established activities, and are not all sitting around waiting for a window between feed or nap time.

A routine does emerge eventually, particularly once you introduce solids (I know that will seem a long way off, but it does fly!)

I think the issue of a routine (knowing where you are) and length of time between feeds are two separate issues that get confused and lumped in together.

I like a routine, but I don't timetable anything, and I don't do anything to length gaps between feeds. Most of the time we're on a 2 hourly cycle and it's just the way it is. You can have a structure and not have loads of crying or be ignoring your babies needs.

I think it does get easily as the baby gets older, eg DS2 now 3.5 months is much more predictable than he was. As I said we are now pretty much in a 3 hourly routine - 7,10,1,4,7 (bedtime),10 (I wake him) and then he sleeps until morning - so thats 6 feeds, and now he rarely feeds for more than 15-20 mins at a time. When he was littler aimed for a 2.5 hour routine eg 7, 9.30, 12, 2.30, 5, 7.30 (bedtime), 10 (I wake him) and then once or twice in night.

I am happy to feed anywhere but would rather not wait until DS2 "demanded it" because of older DC - prefer to have baby eating more often than screaming baby when say picking up from school.

As I said whenever he has growth spurt back to feeding 2 hourly in the afternoon and a couple of times during the night. I'd rather have a "quickie" in between feeds and keep the routine intact though.

I am a 'go-with-the-flow' type, and for me, the crucial thing is not to see breastfeeding as a series of discrete 'feeds', requiring cessation of other activities, sitting down and feeding for x minutes, but more as one continuous but interrupted feed that fits around everything else I have to do.

DS2 is 10 weeks now and I genuinely have no idea how often he feeds, how long he goes between feeds or how long he feeds for at a time. It does help that I am able to feed him in a sling, so if we are out somewhere I can just latch him on and carry on with what I was doing.

So, I find that feeding totally on demand is actually much easier to fit around the rest of family life than scheduled feeding would be.

Wow, loads of replies!

Well firstly a bit of background. DD is 7 weeks + 2. We've ridden out loads of problems and, I would say, have successfully established breastfeeding. But I would also say that this is now at the cost of our family life. She has the odd day when she will take a good feed every two to three hours, but most days consist of constant on-off snacking so that I rarely get more than an hour in between feeding her. I have never been able to leave her, even once, for more than half an hour as I have no idea when she will need feeding again. I can't leave expressed milk as there is no time in the day when I have a chance to express any. I continue to be ridiculously tired all the time, and with my bloods coming back fine and me trying very hard to eat a healthy diet, I can only put this down to the physical demands of lactation and near constant feeding.

Anyhow, I came to a decision last night that for me and my family the right thing to do is to wind down and bring breastfeeding to a natural conclusion. We simply have to have some routine or our life is going to fall apart at the seams. DS's appalling behaviour recently is proof positive of how much he is missing his mum. DH needs to get chance to finish renovating the house, rather than spending all his days doing essential chores or rescuing me from DD, so we can sell up and get out of this depressing isolated place. I feel DS and DH need me more than DD needs breastmilk - that's what it boils down to unfortunately.

If I was a full time SAHM with all the time in the world to enjoy DD when feeding settles down, I might just feel differently.
But I am on 6 months maternity leave from a full time job, of which 2 months have gone already. I currently spend so much time feeding DD I have no time to enjoy her. If she's ever happy to be put down I have to leave her with DH so I can get on with basic stuff like getting washed and spending some quality time with DS. I'm sure things will get better eventually but I feel we're running out of time.

I'll now read the rest of the replies. Interesting to see so many different viewpoints.