please help me keep going with BF

[pinata]

I really struggled to get BF going with 11 week DS (mastitis, blocked ducts, cracked nipples etc etc)

by 6 weeks or so, it started going really well, and I felt so happy, as hadn't managed to do it with DD 2.5 years earlier

Anyway, 2 weeks ago, something seems to have gone wrong, and he has gone from being happy and contented to being unsettled and miserable most of the day, and 90% of his poos are green and they're very frequent

He doesn't seem ill, and he does do occasional yellow poos and is gaining weight and so on

I feel like my milk is somehow suddenly bad for him, and despite trying everything, I'm flummoxed.

DH is pressurising me to try formula, as he thinks DS should be feeling more happy and contented and that the green poos overall are bad for his development as they stop him sleeping as well as he could, relaxing and playing like he should and so on

I really think my milk is best for him long term, but can also see DH's point.

I want to carry on so much, but am feeling more and more disheartened, and formula seems like a good option again, suddenly, despite everything we've been through to get BF going

My GP and HV are useless when it comes to BF, as most people round here FF

to be honest, the whole thing makes me want to cry! Everything was going so well, now it's all gone wrong again - I feel like it can't really be as hard as this. Have I got my expectations wrong? And would it just be better for all, especially DS, if we switch to formula - are the health benefits of my milk being wiped out by the fact it's giving him green poo?

help help help

has anything changed in your diet?
different brand of cereal, milk etc?

maybe you've had more strawberries when it all started?

hello, I'm not very expert, but just wanted to reply YOu're doing great and I feel really cross that you're getting pressure from your DH and no support from health professionals.

Have you tried finding a breastfeeing counsellor or support group near you? I've used the Breastfeeding Network in the past (google them for times and locations of groups) but NCT and La Leche League are the same sort of supportive organisations.

My DD is 11 weeks tomorrow. She did a hugely explosive green poo today and pretty much all her poo is more green than yellow - it hadn't really occurred to me to worry about it (I do lots of worrying about nearly everything else to do with her though!). I have an older DS and I remember things got tough round about the 11 week mark with him and I felt much as you do now. I'm sure someone will be along soon who can make some more practical suggestions about why he might be miserable and what you could do re BF. Good luck!!!

I'm no expert either, but it could be teething - my DS got his first tooth at 16 weeks, but the whole process starts weeks before you actually see the first tooth! This could explain his lack of contentment and green poo - I'm sure it's nothing to do with your breastmilk, which is the very best thing for him!

my ds got a lot of green poo and he was formula fed, if there is a problem I doubt switching to formula would help tbh.

Breastmilk is much more easily digested than formula. He could be fighting off an infection (which breastmilk will be HELPING with), that can cause green poo.

I would go to visit your HV or doctor to rule out illness. Concentrate on the fact that your breastmilk is the best food for your baby, formula isn't (I formula fed my first so I am not being smug about this).

And congratulations for getting this far with breastfeeding, you should feel proud of yourself.

just a ramdom thought - i went through similar with my DS and my health visitor asked if was swaping my breasts at feeding. The reason being is that is two parts to breast milk - the first bit the baby takes is like water and the next bit is the fatty food bit. If you are swapping around they take all water and no fat and that can equal green poo. So i stopped swapping around and left him on one (with a break in the middle for wind) and the poos went back to yellow after a couple of days.

Sorry for the ramble.

kelly's mom is good

ps sorry for typos.

green poo is something that people post about all the time on here-if you search the archives you will see. As far as I can tell, green poo comes and goes. It might not mean anything at all! DS went through weeks of bright green poo and it never meant anything at all other than yet another mystery thing that babies do.

It giving you a wobble is probably just an indication that you are still not as confident in the BF as you though you were? I'm going by my own experiences here....

It might put your mind at rest to speak to a BF expert aka the women on one of the BF helplines-they don't just deal with newborn stuff!

pinata I second what mrspear says. I stopped switching breasts during feeds and would only swap every other feed. I have an oversupply of milk which went mad around 2 months after a growth spurt making things worse.

So only use one boob per feed. If you're already doing that, swap boobs every other feed.

Green poos could also mean they're under the weather so check his temp just to make sure.

Can you get to any RL help. Like an LLL or NCT group with BFCs?

thank you all for replies - it's so disheartening when there's always another setback

the trouble is, DH compares a lot of DS's behaviour to DD, who slept for longer periods and for longer at night more reliably when she was his age, but she was FF (and had various other problems, like constipation and screaming after night feeds), plus there wasn't a noisy toddler in the house to wake her up all the time

I always always regretted not keeping going with BF with her, and with DS I was absolutely thrilled when I thought I'd got in the zone with it. I love feeding him, I love the convenience of it, I love the relationship it gives me with him

now, the thought that my milk might be actually doing him harm is awful.

mrspear I've been doing the one boob for 2 feeds approach, and sometimes the poos are more yellow, but then they'll go back to green again

logrrl / whenwillisleepagain how did you figure out not to worry? I mean, DS's temperature is ok and he's alert and happy and smiley most of the time, but he grunts and strains with his poos, and then I think he must be in pain

it's so hard to believe in my own boobs right now - I felt much more confident a few weeks ago, and DH, although well intentioned, doesn't really understand the emotional aspect to BF. His approach is very much about solving a problem and if it doesn't resolve, well, then there's formula

for me, the thoguht of giving up after coming so far makes me feel unbelievably sad - but is that selfish when it's not really about me, but about DS...

don't give up-try to trust your instinct, try to trust the synchronicity between your babies body and your body...but as you have already got another child, I'm guessing you know that the worries never go away, they just change!

For me, not BF was not an option, so I suppose I worried and then just kept calm and carried on, despite the worrying. If you know what i mean. I also mentioned it to my HV aunt and she said that it can happen to both BF and FF babies. It's a fact that BF babies have fewer tummy upsets etc than FF babies.

I think when something is so new and mysterious as BF is, it can be easy to blame everything on BF. Might be nothing to do with the BF at all. If you were FF for example, and baby had green poo, what would you think/do?

Your breastmilk won't be doing him harm.

It really won't.

You say that your toddler had other problems, did your DH see those just as problems the baby had, rather than problems caused by his feeding method?

Breastfeeding is biologically normal. I would see a doctor to rule out illness and speak to one of the helplines to talk to someone about breastfeeding.

You are enjoying this breastfeeding relationship, there is no reason why it should not continue.

I'm so sorry to hear of your struggles but just wanted to let you know that my own son (20 weeks) goes through regular green poo phases (he's exclusively breastfed). He's otherwise fine - growing, happy, etc - so I'm not worried. But when it first started (about 5 weeks) I was so anxious - did a lot of checking on MN and asking friends and family who'd breastfed. Turns out that BF babies can do green poos and it not be a problem - you really only need to worry if there's something like a raised temperature. But the advice about sticking to one boob for a feed is good - you can always offer the second if you think he needs it (like having a glass of water after dinner ). I personally always offer both boobs as I've also had problems with blocked ducts.

11 weeks is still very very young, especially when there's a toddler about to compare him to. Could it be that your DH is kind of mis-remembering? Like only remembering good stuff and not the crying after nightfeeds etc that you mention? So it makes him think that formula is somehow a magic cure all when in fact FF babies are just as mysterious as BF babies (and every baby is different!). I already mis-remember 11 weeks and my son is only 20 weeks...

I also know how hard it is to believe in yourself and your body's ability to feed your son. You've done so well already and I don't see why you need to give up (unless you want to).

And sorry to be nosey but I checked your profile and saw you're in London. There should be a BF support group or clinic near you - have you tried your local sure start centres? Or you could call one of the support lines like Breastfeeding Network or NCT and they should be able to point you to a group. I'm in North London myself and I really doubt I'd have kept up with BFing without going to BFing support groups at sure start centres and getting advice (we had a good start but descended into thrush/cracked nipples hell by week 2). I only really got into my stride with BFing at 10/11 weeks, as had had such pain until then due to persistent cracks. Now, at 20 weeks, it is just the most convenient thing and I'm proud of myself for sticking with it.

Sorry to ramble on!

Just re-read my post and I realised I didn't mention that I also spoke to my HV and GP about the green poo (I was seeing the GP about something else). Both said it was fine and was probably foremilk/hindmilk. GP also said that he thinks green poo in FF babies is a sign of teething but that BF babies just do green poos every now and then...not sure how scientific that is but I was happy enough with it.

I'm taking him to the doc today, just to rule out illness. I maybe should have done this before, but the poos are so variable in colour, I feel like I need a Dulux colour chart or something, although they're always at least tinged with green

I think you're all right about DH perhaps misremembering. I think it's probably a necessity, otherwise we'd all never have more than one, right?

DH's concern is really mainly around making DS as settled and content as possible. He has always been a smiley chilled little boy, but since the green poos arrived, he's become increasingly crotchety and discontented. With DD, he also approached everything a bit like a science experiment, but of course, once she was FF, it wasn't possible to stop doing that, so it was something we had to live with. It makes me really sad that it's always people's first suggestion - DH is actually more suggesting it as a potential thing to look at, while my mum has been going on about it from the start, when I was having problems

So, it almost feels like the BF, which until now I felt was making him so happy, is now the thing causing the problem, and so my desire to keep going with it is potentially a selfish thing

I never thought I could feel that way, as I KNOW my milk is the best thing for him

All the BF support stuff in my area seems to be on hold over the summer, but I might ring surestart direct to see if I've missed anything. Having some face to face support would definitely help. As I said, DH has DS's best interests at heart, and I'm obviously very emotional about the whole thing, having failed to do it with DD, so a 3rd party might well be what's needed

I'm so glad some of you have shared your green poo experiences - it has made me feel a bit better and that hopefully it will be just one of those mystery things. I didn't realise I could doubt myself this much, especially as I no genuinely enjoy BF

one other question - how long should I aim to be feeding DS for him to get hindmilk? Some of his feeds are really short (like 10 minutes when he wakes up at night), but then he really goes for it and sucks hard, so boob feels totally empty after. Is it possible for this to happen and for him still to not be getting enough hindmilk? I had oversupply as well, so wondered if this might be a possibility...

Does he feed from one boob only per feed? You can try using the same boob for the next feed, then switching-this will help him get more hindmilk. If your boob feels empty and he's not fussing then he's filling up so feeding enough.

Another thing to consider is whether he's sensitive to something in your diet - dairy is the likely culprit. What have you been eating - if you can remember?! My DS is dairy intolerant so I cut it out. Took a few days to see a difference and two weeks for it to completely clear. I had to make sure I didn't use soya as has a similar effect and maintain my calcium levels!

you could try some of these sites for advice? So sorry ur having a hard time. my SIL had a nightmare too

x

amoralia.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/amoralias-favourite-advice-sites/

Hi there, let us know how you get on at docs.

In answer to your question about when I got more confident re bf, it was much, much later than 11 weeks. At the 11 week point with DS, he was very miserable, feeding and crying as soon as I took him off the boob from late afternoon to late evening, he wasn't putting on much weight, so he was dropping down the centiles at the rate of knots, meaning lots of pressure from HVs and even more from MIL, to use formula. I was resisting because he developed eczema at 9 weeks and there is quite a lot of thought that it's best to stick with just bf for as long as possible if your baby's like that. I introduced formula at 16 weeks and his eczema suddenly got much worse, so I blamed myself totally. It was all grim. DH was very supportive but I was beside myself with worry and it was a period of my life which convinced me I could never face having another baby - took me 3 years to change my mind. BUT things got better and I carried on bf till DS was 16 months. TBH I don't think things changed overnight, but maybe when we got to weaning (which I also think I did too early because of worry about my milk supply) I relaxed. Sorry that's a long and probably unhelpful answer.

Yes I think ring surestart about the bf groups during holidays. In my area of London, the one that the midwife from the Children's Centre runs definitely keeps going but some of the others may stop

I am similar to you - had a mare feeding DD1 so ended up giving up at 6 weeks, am now bf DD2 who is coming up to 11weeks. This time round it has been a dream and I feel like I have cracked it (in spite of cracked nipples/thrush along the way).

DD2 does some hideous green poos but then does some normal ones so I don't read too much in to it. Also I know a lot of people swear by ff for getting LO to sleep better/longer but IME, both DDs have slept through from pretty much the same age even though DD1 was ff and DD2 is bf [very smug, though slightly incredulous, emoticon]

pinata - I just wanted to say good luck with the BF, I am sure everything is OK and keep going!

Thanks for your words of support on my thread, I have just started to use jelonet as lots of people have raved about it on here, so hopefully my cracks might start to improve, which would make me very indeed!

I really hope there are some BFing support groups around you pinata - the ones around here definitely keep going through the summer (as babies don't take the summer off ) - but the helplines can be very useful too. NCT, BFN and La Leche all have helplines AFAIK.

Summerhols jelonet is great stuff indeed - I found that smearing lansinoh on top helped even more. But if your cracks don't heal and your latch is good (and any thrush has been treated) then it may be worth asking for antibiotics. Only because I had a persistent crack that lasted until 10 weeks and only shifted with a course of anti-bs even though it didn't look infected (which I can only attribute to my DS feeding off it numerous times during the day/night). I had spent weeks soldiering on using lansinoh/jelonet/breast milk/airing my nipples/silverette cups and just about anything else recommended on MN and in RL (in fact, I got the anti-bs tip from another MNer ). Good lick with it - honestly, once they're gone feeding will be painfree and much more enjoyable.

Is your baby having lots of little feeds instead of a few big feeds?

THere is nothing wrong with green poos. It is a sign that your baby is getting a lot of watery foremilk, as described to me as 'snacking' by my first health visitor.

As long as your baby is also getting plenty of calorific hind-milk and is otherwise thriving, there is nothing to worry about. It is understandable to have more thirst-quenching foremilk in the hot weather.

All my children have have green nappies from about 10 weeks, and they all went on to exclusively breastfeed for at least 6 months and then to between 2 and 4 years alongside solids. They have also been healthy, both physically and psychologically.

I took him to the doctor today, and he listened to his belly and took his temperature and said "I'm not at all worried about this child", but gave no other useful advice whatsoever. As long as nobody dies on his watch, he's fine, which is the approach I have come to expect

but I did also ring surestart direct and got info about a BF support group which is running next week. I had thought it was all suspended because our usual children's centres (we're in newham) have got summer programmes with not much going on

thank you all for your support - I am feeling much more positive now, although poos are still very green. I have been feeding twice per boob and really making sure he empties it as much as possible each time, even if he falls asleep

summerhols good luck with the jelonet - that stuff is great, although I got some funny looks at the chemist buying several packs at once. I also bought some paw paw ointment from here. I used it in addition to lansinoh and am pretty sure it helped speed things along, although it did need wiping off before a feed.

Igglypuff I am trying with cutting out milk, as DD had lactose sensitivity when tiny. Have only been doing this for a couple of days though, so yet to see results. I read it takes a few weeks, as you say. Hadn't thought to cut out soya - that would be a real pain as I'm also veggie...

It's amazing how much of BF is about your state of mind. I was so busy with the pain to start with, that once it was over, I thought I was out of the woods. DS has been a bit more settled today as well, so that helped, too. Seems he CAN manage a decent nap when he really wants to

Glad to hear he's a bit more settled. Yes no soya is a pain! It's about a 50/50 chance that dairy intolerance will also mean soya intolerance. Unfortunately for my DS he's both - now he's on solids I thought I'd try soya and soon learnt it doesn't agree with him!

Maybe just cutting out dairy will make enough of a difference?

so glad things are looking up pinata