Breastfeeding. Have I completely buggered this up – again?

[gaelicsheep]

My DD is now 3 weeks + 2. She has been really difficult to feed from birth ? thrashing her arms about, grabbing at my nipples, looking the wrong way for the breast, hurting like hell with a poor latch etc.

I have tried following all the advice I?ve been given about improving the latch, stopping and starting again etc. but nothing has helped and we?re no further forward. She had a complete nursing strike a week or so ago which led to me expressing for two days solid. After that she was latching worse than ever and my nipples and areolas were so so sore that the only way I dared to feed her was with nipple shields. She is so difficult to feed that I cannot cope with it overnight when I?m shattered so I started giving a formula bottle in the evening so I could express milk for overnight.

I know all the supposed risks of introducing formula/bottles so early, of not feeding overnight and of using nipple shields, but I took a calculated risk knowing full well that the only alternative was to give up or descend into severe depression.

All was going fine, barring the occasional breast refusal episode, until today when she has seemed to really lose interest altogether. I think this has now also highlighted developing problems with my milk supply. There were absolutely no problems with this to start with ? she gained loads of weight from birth ? and I have been expressing 7 ? 9 oz in the evening which I thought was really good. Today though I have only managed to feed her once on each side and come the evening I don?t feel even that full let alone engorged. I only managed to express 3 oz in total this evening.

I really would be grateful for any advice as I do want to crack this if at all possible. However with an increasingly frustrated DH and an active 3 year old there is a limit to how much time I can dedicate to getting it sorted - I can't consider exclusive expressing for example (and I suspect it's already too late for that in any case).

Can milk supply suddenly drop like this under these circumstances after appearing to be OK? Given that we are getting nowhere fast with solving the latching and behaviour problems, realistically how long have I got before this whole thing goes completely to pot, or is it too late already? Does anyone think this is solveable or, given that this will be the second baby where b/f has gone belly up, do some women/baby combinations just not ?do? breastfeeding?

I don't actually think she's tolerating the formula very well and she appears quite uncomfortable much of the time some days. She's almost impossible to put down sometimes (like all last night). So it wouldn't surprise me if the green is related to tummy pain. But tbh as long as it isn't underfeeding I'm OK with it - it just gives me an incentive to get her off the formula ASAP. I don't really want to have to be switching brands etc but I'll ask HV for advice there.

I'm plucking up courage to try forgoing the night time bottle, which we've been giving because I'm just too tired to be feeding constantly through the night as well as the day. I think I'll start pumping again to try to get EBM for that feed instead of the formula. At the moment though there just isn't any time when she isn't either on my boob or asleep on my shoulder.

I think I've worked out what's going on with the hour long feeds. She'll be sucking effectively and come off with a mouthful of creamy milk - perhaps for up to half an hour. Then she'll often go straight back on and fall asleep, sucking only occasionally. What I've been doing is leaving her there in the hope she'll begin feeding again, wanting as much stimulation of my supply as possible, but nine times out of ten she doesn't or not for long. That's comfort sucking right? So I could actually try taking her off after a while when I've got something to do - like get washed and dressed? I do hope so as it is just so time consuming!

Oh dear I just read that back and it sounds awful! Clearly I'm not OK with her having tummy pain so I will look for solutions while I ditch the formula.

Don't worry it didn't really sound awful - I understood what you meant anyway!
Yes, that sounds like comfort sucking to me, I let DD continue with it when I have the time to sit but if I need to get on with something else I try to take her off - sometimes successfully sometimes not!

Yes! We've gone 36 hours with no formula!! Plenty of wet nappies and HV has no concerns. She'll wait til next week to weigh her. Hopefully the formula is gone for good!

Brilliat news gaelicsheep.

You should be really proud of yourself for all the hard work you've put in. It can only get easier from now on. Well done for getting through this.

Thanks . I'm pretty happy just now.

Hi,

You've done incredibly well to pull this back into line, well done!!

With regard to green poo, my youngest had green poo, which sometimes had mucous and blood flecks in it, it turned out she was cows milk protein intolerant, once I took all cows milk out of her diet (via mine!) her poo went yellow and all the other problems (like screaming colic, reflux, dry skin/eczema) went away too. The way you describe your daughter fighting at the breast in your early posts made me think of reflux too. Have you also tried feeding her in Biological Nurturing positions, rather than in the traditional cradle holds? If she is refluxy then being upright in BN positions will help too.

As for comfort sucking, yes, this is good!! Let her do it as much as you can, she will be feeding gently in her sleep, and as you say it will help to encourage your milk supply. She won't comfort nurse for ever, so try to go with it for now, it's great for both of you.

Well I have to admit she was back on the formula last night . It wasn't a supply issue though, just me being so so tired (again) that I couldn't function on any level. I've always had times like that since having post viral syndrome years ago. When I'm that tired I simply can't be holding her or sleeping with her as I when I fall asleep I sleep so deeply. I was dead to the world for 10 hours solid - I didn't even wake when DS woke with a huge coughing fit.

I've pumped this morning to try to make up for missing 2 feeds. I think this is a pattern that will repeat so I hope my supply will withstand it. We seem to be OK so far. Completely exclusive bf might just be an ambition too far for me because of my fatigue "ishoos". It's not been helped by DD not sleeping at all for several days in a row unless she's on the boob or being held.

Re the poo - she's just done a massive one and after the break from formula it was pretty much back to mustard yellow and smellng normal, so I definitely think it's the formula and nothing more sinister.

I did a bottle a night for the first 3 months but then got rid of it and supply was never an issue. My body compensated - I was feeding so much at other times, one miss wasn't really an issue.

I may have already told you this so sorry if repeating myself. Don't beat yourself up about it. Keep just doing what you can. Set yourself a target - mine was 3 weeks, then 6 weeks, then 12 weeks etc. Eventually did 2 years! Feels a bit more manageable I think.

Are your nipples still sore - get someone to check that latch. That is the only way to crack it. Otherwise baby will get some milk but not enough and will always want to be fed. You need an efficient feeder.

Hi fifitot. The latch is highly variable. If she's in the mood she can latch like a dream and feed very well. If not and she's tired or feeling lazy then her latch isn't great, alhough I wouldn't say it affects how she transfers the milk - her very lazy sucking at those times undoubtably does though.

The HV seems to think all is fine. I must admit I haven't contacted any of the helplines, mostly because I'm presuming (being in the middle of nowhere) that no one would come and see me. That's the way with everything up here so I don't see that this would be any different - plus I don't like the idea of trying to explain all this stuff over the phone to some stranger. Defeatist I know.

The thing is I do think I know what to look for in the latch, and I certainly know what's comfortable and what isn't, but it's a classic case of you can lead a horse to water etc. I had an NCT person come and tell me that DS's latch was perfect when I was nearly crying in agony so I trust my own judgement more than a so-called expert.

Daytime feeding really isn't a problem now and supply permitting I can see us lasting the course (which for me is until I return to work in the New Year). She seems to fuss mostly at night, unfortunately, just when - as you say - she needs to be as efficient as possible. A quick 20 minute feed would be fine. An hour or more's on/off and falling asleep mid feed definitely isn't. I'll have to take it night by night I think. It's encouraging to hear that a bottle at night didn't cause you any problems.

How did you get on last night?

She had a bottle of formula at about 2am after every attempt to settle her had failed, including what felt like continuous feeding/sleeping on me. And she then finally went to sleep and slept until 5.45 when I breastfed her. I think perhaps she is getting frustrated/worn out with the nipple shields when my milk flow is particularly slow at night. It was just impossible to get her to stay awake for long enough to take a proper feed from me so she just wouldn't settle - it's been the same story nearly every night for the past 10 days or so. The bottle last night worked like magic. The nipple shields are not going anywhere as I'm still terrified of her munching gums so I think the night time bottle's probably here to stay.

She had a bottle of formula at about 2am after every attempt to settle her had failed, including what felt like continuous feeding/sleeping on me. And she then finally went to sleep and slept until 5.45 when I breastfed her. I think perhaps she is getting frustrated/worn out with the nipple shields when my milk flow is particularly slow at night. It was just impossible to get her to stay awake for long enough to take a proper feed from me so she just wouldn't settle - it's been the same story nearly every night for the past 10 days or so. The bottle last night worked like magic. The nipple shields are not going anywhere as I'm still terrified of her munching gums so I think the night time bottle's probably here to stay.

Well the nightime bottle is not the end of the world. You can bf the rest of the time.

Just feel a bit rubbish that I can't stay the course really - thousands of women manage it and I can't. But I'm really run down and now appear to have a throat infection. Breastfeeding is knackering me out quite frankly - I feel like I could sleep 24 hours a day and it still wouldn't be enough. As I said though, it's good to hear that a night time bottle wasn't the end of the world for you.

You are doing far more than loads of women do! Don't be too critical of yourself. It is knackering, I know I am currently feeding a week old baby and have lost so much weight it's ridiculous! However it does settle after a while and you reach a momentum. I remember suddenly finding it quite easy at one point. DD's feeds settled down and she woke at night for a quick slurp 2-3 times and then went right back to sleep and the days were sorted too.

I am now desperately awaiting that day for number 2! He sleeps alot during the day but not so much at night unfortunately and I too am like a zombie.