Breastfeeding. Have I completely buggered this up – again?

[gaelicsheep]

My DD is now 3 weeks + 2. She has been really difficult to feed from birth ? thrashing her arms about, grabbing at my nipples, looking the wrong way for the breast, hurting like hell with a poor latch etc.

I have tried following all the advice I?ve been given about improving the latch, stopping and starting again etc. but nothing has helped and we?re no further forward. She had a complete nursing strike a week or so ago which led to me expressing for two days solid. After that she was latching worse than ever and my nipples and areolas were so so sore that the only way I dared to feed her was with nipple shields. She is so difficult to feed that I cannot cope with it overnight when I?m shattered so I started giving a formula bottle in the evening so I could express milk for overnight.

I know all the supposed risks of introducing formula/bottles so early, of not feeding overnight and of using nipple shields, but I took a calculated risk knowing full well that the only alternative was to give up or descend into severe depression.

All was going fine, barring the occasional breast refusal episode, until today when she has seemed to really lose interest altogether. I think this has now also highlighted developing problems with my milk supply. There were absolutely no problems with this to start with ? she gained loads of weight from birth ? and I have been expressing 7 ? 9 oz in the evening which I thought was really good. Today though I have only managed to feed her once on each side and come the evening I don?t feel even that full let alone engorged. I only managed to express 3 oz in total this evening.

I really would be grateful for any advice as I do want to crack this if at all possible. However with an increasingly frustrated DH and an active 3 year old there is a limit to how much time I can dedicate to getting it sorted - I can't consider exclusive expressing for example (and I suspect it's already too late for that in any case).

Can milk supply suddenly drop like this under these circumstances after appearing to be OK? Given that we are getting nowhere fast with solving the latching and behaviour problems, realistically how long have I got before this whole thing goes completely to pot, or is it too late already? Does anyone think this is solveable or, given that this will be the second baby where b/f has gone belly up, do some women/baby combinations just not ?do? breastfeeding?

Thanks for all the kind words of encouragement. To top it all I now appear to have mastitis . I woke up this morning with a very sore left boob, had a shocking headache all day and have been getting severe chills all afternoon. Took my temperature earlier and it was 38.8 . Just my luck, and I thought I was being so careful to ensure my breasts didn't stay too full for too long, and that DD emptied them completely at least a couple of times a day. I'm not sure what else I could have done really - off the to the GPs tomorrow I guess. Same thing happened with DS at 2 weeks - history repeats again.

I am sorry to read of your breastfeeding problems. Have you ruled out tongue tie now? My son was tongue tied and it wasn't picked up until 5 weeks - but he had no problems gaining weight (very powerful suck), it was just me who had the problems (including mastitis)! I hope you don't have mastitis.

Incidentally, even at 5 weeks when his tongue tie was cut it didn't fix it, so that saga continued until he was about 9 months old when we had a referral to a specialist who said - yep - he's still very tongue-tied - seems there are a lot of differing opinions out there about tongue ties.

Oh poor you gaelic- hope you feel better soon and that your GP has been helpful.

Hi both. It's definitely mastitis but I've managed to feed OK and it's possibly resolving itself. The gp gave me some abs to take if the symptoms worsen again.

I think we probably have ruled out tongue tie. Certainly there's no obvious sign of it and DD is starting to latch on a whole lot better. Typically she fed like a little angel today in front of the HV (who had to persuade me a fair bit to feed her, it has to be said), It was encouraging to hear that she noticed a real difference from the last time she saw me. She said I also looked more relaxed,and I then realised that I was no longer having to grit my teeth through the feed, so that must be progress.

Hopefully things are on the up, but the main thing both HV and GP said to me is that DD will be just fine however I end up feeding her and I need to think of myself. Basically I need to stop obsessing to the point of making myself ill. Any hope of exclusive bf thing went out of the window ages ago in any case and everyone seems to think I'm being way too hard on myself. My aim from now on is to breastfeed when I can and give bottles when I can't (but hopefully reducing in number if possible).

Thanka for all the advice and encouragement.

Incidentally SpiceWeasel, I should explain that my DS had tongue tie which went undiagnosed for 4 months! Hence my worry this time around. I'm sorry to hear of your own problems, especially that snipping it didn't work.

But while DD has been very difficult in many ways, what I haven't had this time at least is the excrutiating pain that lasted an entire feed, every single time. I only managed a week's exclusive bf with DS before becoming a complete physical and emotional wreck. Apart from that though I've felt like I'm reliving the same period 4 years ago, which is the last thing I ever wanted this time around.

I'm sorry to hear that you have mastitis! I think things will seem better when you have recovered. It does sound like you are making progress and I'm glad you are feeling better. Good luck!

Hi, sorry to hear about your problems bf, I hope things get better for you xx

I saw your name and wanted to say congratulations on your dd, I had been wondering about you because I knew you were due in June. I'm also expecting in November

I sympathise with ds btw - it is a challenging age!

Glad things are getting better gaelic, hope you get over the mastitis soon.
look after yourself.

OMG, my daughter and her vice-like feeding technique have managed to crack my right nipple open and draw blood - through a nipple shield. How is that possible?!

I don't know how long I can do this any more, or exactly why I'm perservering with it tbh. The mastitis is on the mend I think - my temperature's down anyway - but it seems it's one thing after another. I don't think anyone can solve this except me, inside my head, as that's where the problem seems to be. Why I can't just be decisive and give up is beyond me. I think I'm holding out for the holy grail of painless, easy, convenient feeding, but who knows if that will ever happen?

Hi Wallace - you're expecting?! Wow, congratulations! Sorry I never got in touch about meeting up, but I'm on mat leave now (obviously) so perhaps I could come down your way when things have settled down here a bit?

gaelicsheep - just wanted to say well done for getting this far in such difficult circumstances. I'm sorry I don't have any useful advice, but I hope you manage to reach a decision that feels right for you and your family.

Gaelicsheep - how are you today. I'm so sorry it's proving difficult for you. If your nipple is cracked, try a piece of Jelonet in your bra. It's a burns dressing that's pure lanolin and fab for craked nipples. Can be tough t o find, but I'll happily post you some. I've got spare.

You can buy it on ebay. Might be quicker.

A meet up would be lovely (when you are up to it ) I have been dicussing it with E (T's mum) and were thinking maybe next month. She's pregnant too btw!

Hello. Meet up sounds good Wallace - have you still got my email address?

LaTrucha - today I'm a bit better thanks. Things reached a bit of a head yesterday with DH and we had a blazing row over the whole breastfeeding issue . I felt he wasn't being at all supportive, but he insists he is just very worried about the pain it's been causing me. We made up in the end but then had the absolute night from hell with DD.

Anyhow, that night from hell included at least 4 bottles of formula down the sink (and down her bibs) as she appeared to want milk but then wouldn't take the bottles properly. It reminded me what a complete and utter pita bottles are and has inspired me to re-double my efforts to make breastfeeding work.

Feeding really is more comfortable now - the cracked nipple looked worse than it actually is and it's already healing nicely with the help of Kamillosan. Today I've gone with the flow and have been able to accept the evening cluster feeding etc. as I'm nowhere near as sore as I was. I'm still using nipple shields, and interestingly she really fussed badly when I tried without one. I think she prefers the more controlled flow with the shield which is fine by me.

So now I just have to work on increasing my supply to match her appetite and cut out the bottles. Does anyone have any tips that won't involve hours of extra pumping on top of the hours of feeding? How best to manage formula top ups for example?

Hello gaelicsheep,
I'm afraid I haven't got any advice as I'm a first time mum of a 3 and a half week old and know absolutely nothing!

Just wanted to say that my baby feeds in exactly the same way as yours. Like you I've had the latch checked by lots of HCPs, all of whom say it's fine. I've been so despondent due to the pain, and, like you I've been adding formula feeds, using shields and expressing. I'm going to bludgeon to death the next person who says "if you're doing it right it shouldn't hurt"...

Good on you for persevering

Hi just a quick read and wondered if you had a fast milk flow? I do and my DS would slide to the end of the nipple to try and control the flow (I was in agony for weeks). This could also be why she's fussing as the milk is too fast, there's a lot of foremilk which isn't filling her up. A fast flow/oversupply can also cause reflux like symptoms.

You can try positioning her so she's more upright and you lean backwards. Also what happens if you put her on after you've expressed? (Although not a habit you want to get into otherwise you'll stimulate even more production and make things worse).

You could also try block feeding - so only use one boob per feed. If you already do that, only switch boobs every other feed.

You could also try feeding her when she's asleep in the night? So co-sleep or have her next to you and as soon as she murmurs, pop the boob in. She's likely to be more relaxed and if you're lying down it might make the milk flow slower (although in my case it didn't - it was better for me to be lying back on pillows and DS was across my chest).

this link is interesting

Igglybuff's link is great. Hopefully some part of it will chime with your experience and give some ideas about what to do. Otherwise, have you tried "biological nurturing", aka "laid back breastfeeding"? It can be really helpful to let the baby sort out the latch for herself, while fully supported on your body. If her fussing is caused by fast milk flow then lying back would at least mean that gravity was helping to slow it up a bit. I really feel for you - the bleeding nipples and mastitis at least came separately for me. All the best with it.

Think i still have your email

Sorry I've not been back on for a couple of days - been too busy breastfeeding for hours on end.

Thanks for the link Igglybuff. I've seen that before and it's what made me think DD may actually be finding it easier with the shields. It all makes a lot of sense and I'm certainly going to try switching breasts according to her behaviour.

Only one 4 oz bottle of formula given yesterday - a huge improvement. I only hope she's getting enough from me as I've kind of lost confidence in that respect. I know greenish poo is bad news in a fully breastfed baby - do you reckon it's the formula doing that? She must be getting to the hindmilk as she can be on one boob for an hour!

I had DD on one bottle a day when struggling with BFing and was able to get supply back up after a while.

Green poo isn't good - formula poo tends to be dark brown. I am also thinking that an hour on one boob could be too long and indicate the latch isn't great - i.e still getting milk but it's taking too long?

I am no expert but think my experience of BFing was like yours a bit at first. Lots of problems with latch, slow feeding etc, pain, mastitis. Poor you - I am struggling with different BF issues but feel your pain! BF is hard work - at first anyway.

Good luck.

hi gaelic,
glad that you're persevering - well done for remaining so positive!

you could try fenugreek tablets for boosting your supply.

slowly, slowly, catchy monkey

Well I'll ask the HV about the poo tomorrow but I'm not overly concerned. I've read that a greenish tinge can be due to the iron content of formula and I wouldn't have thought she's having enough formula to generate the brown stinky stuff. Plus it's not mucousy and frothy and there are plenty of wet nappies. The HV last week said she was one of the most alert 3 week olds she'd ever seen and to date she's still gaining weight really well. Hopefully tomorrow's weigh in will show that trend continuing.

Re the timing - I think she just likes sucking tbh. She can be a lot quicker than that and still seem satisfied. I tried boob switching earlier when she was showing signs of frustration with slow flow and that really helped. I'm trying to stay positive.

Sounds like you're doing really well gaelicsheep, I'm sure staying positive helps Good luck for tomorrow's weigh in, sounds like it should be fine.

In the absence of any more qualified bf'ing help I'll pitch in and say that green poo is not necessarily and issue. Breastfed baby poo can be all colours of the rainbow, but green can be indicative of colic/wind (well it was in mine, and HV agreed). it can also be just, well, green poo. If she's happy, dont' fret.

And pat yourself on the back for sticking with it