Is breastfeeding seen as a middle class thing?

[Thandeka]

Am genuinely curious. Just heard a local children's centre in a deprived area refused to have a breastfeeding support group in it because only the middle class mums would go.

eh?
And I have heard elsewhere that breastfeeding levels are much higher in the middle classes,
Could it linked with education levels?

I have a feeling in other countries people of all classes breastfeed so why not in this country?

Am not posting this to be controversial or anything and apologies if it has been done to death already- I couldn't find anything before but I just wondered if mumsnetters thought it was a middle class thing? and know any reasons why this is?

Ryoko - on this thread and on others, you're showing you have some fairly harsh, very resentful attitudes towards breastfeeding and breastfeeding women.

No one has criticised you on mumsnet for not breastfeeding in any way at all yet you persist in criticising other women for breastfeeding where others can see them - you clearly see breastfeeding in public as being deliberately provocative to men...and as for equating breastfeeding with changing a nappy in Starbucks

No one is giving you a hard time for formula feeding. Get over yourself, for goodness sake! However, if you post ridiculous statements about perverts and men and changing nappies, you can expect to be called on it.

You are ok about someone breastfeeding in a ladies toilet - Big Deal! I suppose you are at least consistent! Breastfeeding is like changing nappies to you, so no wonder you think its rightful place is in the toilet.

It would be a good idea for you to keep these ideas to yourself. You ask for sensitivity, but you show absolutely none yourself.

@MadWomen!

Did I 'blast off' after your countdown?!

getorf- these were quotes by women who self-identify as 'working class' when asked why they didn't breastfeed.

Of course lots of working class Mums do breastfeed and wouldn't agree with this sample's statements.

aahh. Tiktok has aaarrriived. perfect timing

No ryoko, i haven't been chased by perverts, in spite of frequently having "one boob hanging out". Neither have i been abducted by aliens, or served fish and chips by elvis.

I say prejudice because you are clearly pre judging bf ing women. You are correct that there are too many selfish people in the world.

Stewiegriffinsmum maybe you are right that ryoko doesn't live in the uk. It sounds like she lives in the dark ages

What's the betting Ryoko will reply by saying she is being criticised and victimised for formula feeding?

It's all very well to criticise the statement as a sweeping generalisation, or hideous stereotyping, but BF simply is more prevalent in middle class areas. Who knows why, though the MC do also buy more organic vegetables, so perhaps it's part of a wider quest for the "natural" way.

Of course, that doesn't mean that only the middle classes BF or that all the MC BF; but certainly I am regarded as somewhat of an anomoly for being a professional, educated MC FFer.

I think it's definitely the case, rightly or wrongly.

I have two DDs both formula fed. Tried to BF DD1 but had lots of probs and gave up, haven't even attempted it with DD2.

With DD1 I felt like a real leper at the various mother and baby groups and kept explaining why I was formula feeding etc... I'm more confident about not BFing DD2 and don't bother explaining myself anymore.

I'm an educated, middle class person and I'm well aware of the benefits of BFing, but have chosen to FF instead.

Most of the middle class mums I know BF, most of the others don't.

Apologies if this has been mentioned already (haven't read whole thread) but the DOH Infant Feeding Survey paints a pretty clear picture of feeding patterns in the UK, and shows that professional and older mothers, particularly in the South East, are much more likely to initiate and continue breastfeeding than mothers who left school at 16 and than younger mothers.

here

(from the report) "The highest incidences of breastfeeding were found among mothers from
managerial and professional occupations, those with the highest educational
levels, those aged 30 or over, and among first time mothers. These variations
were evident in all countries and are consistent with the patterns found in
previous surveys".

I suppose it's about cultural norms and about knowledge. The more you know about breastfeeding and the more breastfeedering mums you mix with, the more likely you are to do it yourself.

Just to throw the cat among the pigeons, the survey also looks at smoking during pregnancy and turns this up:

"Across the United Kingdom, mothers in managerial and professional occupations
were the least likely to have smoked before or during pregnancy (20%), while those in
routine and manual occupations were the most likely to have smoked (48%). Among
mothers who did smoke, those in managerial and professional occupations were more
likely than those in routine and manual occupations to have given up at some point
before or during pregnancy (63% and 39% respectively). Mothers in routine and manual occupations were more than four times as likely as those in managerial and professional occupations to have smoked throughout
pregnancy (29% and 7% respectively)."

One in 6 women in the UK smoke the entire way through pregnancy. Am I alone in finding that statistic incredibly surprising? Most of them must be doing it on the sly because I haven't noticed lots of pregnant smokers around! I suppose there must be an age issue here too.

"breastfeedering mums"

ryoko - it was probably me you saw in Ealing Broadway. I used to whip out my boobs for my son to feed the titillation of passing leering men, usually once or twice a day when shopping in Ealing You'll no doubt be pleased that I am about to have DC2 but no longer live there so shan't be bothering you any more .

FWIW, I don't think it is a binary class thing. I think it is largely about education/assertiveness/familial support/professional support and I think that is all often easier to have or to access in the higher socio-economic circles (ABC1) than the lower ones (C2DE). And people then generalise that to be "middle class" vs "working class" however the hell those are actually classified nowadays when actually people's class identities are different to their socio-economic groupings.

Arseholio said "It's much easier to breastfeed with support and it is much easier to access the suport if you are educated or wealthy" and I think that is probably about right, if you add "or assertive enough".

Someone with a domineering matriarch type mother in the family, who lives round the corner, ff herself, thinks bf is weird and unnatural and tries to guilt trip the new mum into ff so she can be involved in feeding her grandchild, may find it harder to bf than someone who has a mum who perhaps lives at a distance, knows when to shut up and let you get on with it and just supports you in whatever you choose. And again maybe there is some sort of class correlation thing going on there, or maybe that's just another stereotype?

Nope, not going to make my baby wait to please anyone else, it simply doesn't matter to me if people are offended, I. Just. Don't. Care.

Dealing with waste is different to feeding a baby.

My nearest Starbucks is baby heaven, we have a buggy park, large comfortable lounges, free water brought to you if the staff clock you are BFing, warm water for warming up a bottle if you are not.

Lovely, they get stacks of my money because of it.

OP - dont thing bfeeding has anything to do with class. IMO - what the females in your family do/ did has more influence than class.

I think the whole class thing is also difficult to judge. Who decides which class someone is in?

Ryoko - I dont wander onto bfeeding threads a lot, but when I do, I always see your horrible posts. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but why do you have such a horrible attitude towards bfeeding? You have more anger towards this than is healthy tbh.

agree. but when I once said that on here I was FLAMED!!!!

when I went to baby weighing I was almost the only BF there!

I live in a nice but not posh in anyway area

Ryoko I have had a lot of very bad experiences with men in general but I have never had anything unpleasant said to me by a man while I am bf. I have however had unpleasant things said by women.

r.e bra's only costing £10 it depends on your size once you hit dd the prices go through the roof.

I am in a very working class area and we have one of the lowest bf rates in the u.k none of my friends even initiated bf. I think it is because though I bf my two dc I have never once been asked while pg how I wanted to feed my dc by hcp and I was given no information about the benefits of bf.

I think this is the reason why it is because no one in working class area's bother to explain bf benefits or how to bf.

To top it off when I bf my friends all asked why would I bf I told them of some of the benefits and they said they didn't know. After hearing about the benefits some of my friends went on to bf their next dc.

Is being a good mother seen as a middle class thing?

I have this impression from MN many times... Breastfeeding, education, whatever, because you are middle class you are better mother or vice versa. This includes BF of course.

I agree with Fiofio

I don't think middle class mums are better I know some excellent wc mums and some excellent mc mums.

My last bra cost 32 quid.

Lovely set of 38GGs here, no boob tubes though, I need structural engineering. I would like to blame the babies but they were mahoosive well before I got knocked up.

I think FioFio could be right about the just not rattling on about it.

I was 23 when I had my first child and had no idea and no one to ask about breastfeeding so I bought a book and did research. I realised the benefits and worked hard at it once DS was born. It was difficult and I taught myself and stuck at it. I'm well-educated and am probably lower MC, I guess. I have 4 kids now, all breastfed and I'm now 39. I would have considered myself a failure if I hadn't. I understand there are women who really can't breastfeed and they need to use formula. The ones who can but choose not to are just plain lazy.

Ryoko: re: the comment about changing a baby in starbucks, of course a nappy change should happen in the toilets, thats were adults go to the toilet.

But breastFEEDing is the baby eating and yes I have (and will) sit i Starbucks feeding - adults don't eat in toilets and neither should babies.

If anyone feels very modest (although its possible to fed without showing anything anyway) they could buy a breastfeeding apron thing.

And why do I feed my baby in public, because I have no intention of sitting in my house all day and my baby gets hungry....

Most people are drinking milk in Starbucks anyway.

Slushy, In case it is not clear I do not believe one 'class' of mother is better than the other... But I think this is implied in the question. BF is best as we all know. So, do middle class mum tend to be better mums is clearly implied in the question as I see it. I guess I do not like the question at all.

See for instance in first page the post by NWLondon stating:
' Maybe people in deprived areas don't care about the benefits as much.'

Perhaps that explains the complete OTT reaction of Ryoko, who apparently, when she needs to feed her kids takes them to the toilet.

camaleon - I think it is. Or rather that because a lot of the middle classes do something, then it equates to being a good mother as any other choice must be bad.

Also agree with fio that wc mothers probably just get on with it - perhaps they feel less of a need to talk about it / look down their noses at others for not doing the same?