Is breastfeeding seen as a middle class thing?

[Thandeka]

Am genuinely curious. Just heard a local children's centre in a deprived area refused to have a breastfeeding support group in it because only the middle class mums would go.

eh?
And I have heard elsewhere that breastfeeding levels are much higher in the middle classes,
Could it linked with education levels?

I have a feeling in other countries people of all classes breastfeed so why not in this country?

Am not posting this to be controversial or anything and apologies if it has been done to death already- I couldn't find anything before but I just wondered if mumsnetters thought it was a middle class thing? and know any reasons why this is?

sorry posted on wrong thread.

Jesus Moonfacemomma

Cant you just let amothersplaceisinthewrong share her experience without jumping down her throat - thats just being mean!

She didnt want to bf - her kids sound like they are doing great - leave her alone

Moonface

I did not use cartons except when on holiday. Didn't find making up the bottles once a day particularly time consuming. And as for inflammatory bowel disease etc, I very rarely trust statistics as they can be manipulated to say whatever you like.

They might get run over by a bus tomorrow, but I still let them cross the road.

As i understand it amothers formula manufacturers (at least sma, don't know about others but imagine they are all fairly similar?) now say that each feed must be made up as required. So obviously this means boiling a kettle half an hour before your dc is hungry.

Or making up the feed in a manner that may not be safe.

Or buying a carton.

It was some years ago, so those guidelines were not in place (however I would still probably weigh them up and not just blindly accept what I was "told"). I was merely adding my experience to suggest that it is not only the "working class" who choose not to breastfeed.

Moonfacemama it is all formula now that has to be made up a bottle at a time, or with an hour to go. really annoying when all you have to do with bf is to sit down and latch baby on

i'm not trying to get personal amothers (much to mindy's disappointment) but to me scrupulous would at least mean following the instructions.

I'm merely trying to make the point that ff, done safely, is not more convenient than bf. For me this is an important message as earlier in the thread it has been implied that only mc women have time to bf. I worry that this could become a self fulfilling prophecy.

bumpsa - my experience of bf was just like yours and like you, I spent weeks waiting for something awful to happen - it never did, it just got easier.

I've often thought since that there needs to be a balance of the support and information available, so it covers not just possible difficulties but also how easy and convenient it can be, even from the start.

MoonFaceMama - I was under the impression that "each feed must be made up as required" means that you can boil the kettle and fill the bottles for the day but that you must only add the powder and make up the formula up to an hour before you give it to the baby. This has been my interpretation of the guidelines, and my baby has been fine and is now 7 months old. I thought that the risk with FF is mainly stomach bugs etc due to bacteria in the milk, ie the water can be boiled and the bottles filled for the day/night with the powder added as and when the baby needs feeding, therefore removing the necessity to be within striking distance of a kettle half an hour before you need to feed the baby.

Obviously commom sense must be exercised and two/three day old water is not a good idea. I would do the day at most and then start again for the night feeds when she was small. I do think that different health professionals will give difference guidance on this too.

Minor point though!

Kingsroadie - you need to look at this thread.

Formula is not sterile. It needs to be made with water which is 70 degrees C.

For discussion/links/research - go and see the thread I linked to.

More importantly, is Denise Van Outen middle class?

"Again, maybe I was just very fortunate in my experience of bf-ing, but why on earth do people need to be able to pay for private support just to be able to breastfeed?"

I guess the point was that, given the reasons given on this and other threads for stopping breastfeeding (painful, exhausting, distressing if you dont think the baby's getting enough, needing partner to help with night feeds), I can see why being able to get fast, on -tap support might be a factor in more women continuing, espcially now that extended families tend to be more spread out women may get less informal support.

I wasn't saying it's a pre-requisite.

But, that said, there are no prizes for martyrdom, so if you can afford a mat nurse, and it means you enjoy those first few weeks more, why not?

Would any of you ladies (MC or WC ) like to add support to my request to MNTowers for a webchat with Mike Brady of Baby Milk Action?

sorry kings but i don't think that's what it means, as tabouleh points out. Seems like a bit of a racket to me.

bumps and cakes i agree than the difficulties of bf can be overplayed, while the difficulties of ff are barely stated!

tabouleh and moonfacemama, my formula tin says - "boil fresh water and allow to cool at least 30 minutes so that it feels warm to the wrist. Pour the required amount of water into the sterilised feeding bottle....Add the prescribed number of scoops of Neocate LCP to the water. Replace the cap on the bottle and shake until the powder dissolves. Before feeding ensure that the forumla is at the correct temperature by placing a few drops n the wrist. Formula remaining in the bottle after one hour of feeding should be discarded. Formula must not be rewarmed during feeding."

There is no mention of 70C and it all seems fairly unscientific to me. Basically the tin sees to say to make sure the water has cooled down enough to make sure it isn't too hot for your baby. That is my interpretation of it. People may disagree with me but I just don't understand why they don't provide thermometers in the pack then with which to measure the water temp and tell you to do this?

I realise this is very off topic and tbh I am happy with how I do things - may daughter is 7.5 months old and has never had an upset stomach. She also takes her milk at room temp etc - doesn't have it heated up. Everyone else I know who formula feeds also prepares bottles this way. I realise that just because lots of people do it this way, it doesn't make it the correct way, but they are all intelligent people educated to a high level etc so am slightly shocked that this 70C thing has passed us all by. Thanks for drawing it to my attention.

I've just read your other thread tab and it is really shocking. From how I understand it Kingsroadie what is shocking is not so much that it has passed you by, but that formula companies have been so evasive about it. (SOrry I know this is going OT but it does relate to ideas of convenience and education, buth of which have been ongoing themes in this debate)

Kingsroadie thanks for looking at my thread. Unforunately as the guidelines are guidelines and not law that is why they get away with not mentioning 70 degrees on the tin.

I would be very interested if you had a chance to ring their careline number and ask about the 70 degrees whether they would admit that this is where they get the 30 minutes from.

I know - if it really does make all the difference and would help eliminate awful illness, as per your thread tab then they should have to mention it on the tin. Yes I think that must be where they get the 70C from - ie cool for about half an hour and then the water will be about that temp. Just that people may well not get it exactly at half an hour and therefore miss that 70C boat. Or boil a full kettle or (more likely I think) a 1/4 full kettle in which case presumably the water will cool down faster and you will miss the 70C boat far before 30 mins is up.

It's terrible actually and perhaps we should start a campaign! No one I know has heard of this. I am a qualified solicitor so am fairly thorough about things but have never researched this as I simply had no reason to suspect I need too. People should be made aware of this...

Thanks for drawing it to my attention - I will certainly pass the message on...

Also Neocate is obvioualy not your "run of the mill" formula either - wonder if instructions on the tin are different as a result? I doubt it though...

Kingsroadie - you should check with the manufacturers, I think, as Neocate is different, as you say. They partially-pre-digest the protein content and this might mean it should not be made up too hot - just guessing here. There will be a phone number on the pack to call, I would think.

Quite - it's amino acid based and made of long chain polymers so too hot might break down the already very broken down proteins as you say tiktok. Interesting, all of this...

Kingsroadie

"Just that people may well not get it exactly at half an hour and therefore miss that 70C boat. Or boil a full kettle or (more likely I think) a 1/4 full kettle in which case presumably the water will cool down faster and you will miss the 70C boat far before 30 mins is up."

Yep - you're right and thats why the guidelines were further refined just this year to advise people to boil a litre of water. See FSA press releases here that was backed up by a research report which was linked to at the bottom of that page.

Baby milk action has lobbied on this - perhaps you could add your support to my request for a webchat with them.

Yep - I am up for a campaign - perhaps it needs the input of Mums! (You can CAT me if you want to discuss off board).

I have been trying to raise awareness of this on MN for a while now and I have a ton of website links which I need to organise.

I have already asked Mumsnet to update their bottle feeding section. Anyone supporting that idea could also post on that thread to bump it.

Re the Neocate - they are giving instructions which would mean that it would be made with 70 deg water if they were followed (all be it it depends on the volume of water in the kettle). It is just that in saying "about half an hour" they are not stressing the 70 degrees.

Thanks for that *tabouleh - will have a look.

This may be me being a pedant or completely my interpretation but the phrase "leave it to cool for AT LEAST 30 minutes" implies to me that it does not matter if left for longer, as long as it is left at least 30 mins to cool enough. Odd.

why has this thread turned into an in-depth discussion on how to prepare formula?

Anyway in relation to OP I am very much mc but husband is 100% wc - he and his siblings were all ff and his generation all ff their children. I and my siblings were bf and I bf both my babies.

I get lots of helpful "advice" from MIL about needing to "fill up" my 4 mo DS so he will sleep better and the other day she gave him a cow biscuit when I was not looking (which he choked on).

Get similar advice from my mother tho about needing to start "solids" by now so that he will sleep better. (have tried to tentatively introduce them under this combined matriarchal pressure but has actually made matters worse if anything).

DS refuses ff point blank and only takes the breast so he is clearly very much mc lol!

P.S. same goes for extended family - formula very much the norm on his "wc" side but bf very much the norm on mine.

Don't know if this MEANS anything but is just the way it is IME.