Harrow School - a diluted global brand?

[Mrspepperpot1979]

Our DS has been offered a place at Harrow, which of course is wonderful – it’s a school with an extraordinary heritage. However, we're beginning to wonder whether Harrow, perhaps more than any other UK public school, has now evolved into something quite different from what made it so unique.

One concern is the sheer scale of Harrow’s international cohort - particularly the large number of pupils from China. While cultural diversity is something to be celebrated, it feels as though the balance may have shifted too far. When comparing Harrow with schools like Eton or Radley (both of which have made a point of avoiding overseas franchises), the contrast is quite stark.

Harrow has opened a significant number of international schools abroad over the last few years - notably in China – and continues to expand in this direction. While one can appreciate the commercial rationale, one can’t help but question what this says about the school’s strategic focus. Has the essence of what Harrow was – a quintessentially British boarding school experience – been changed for the worse or better as a result?

A number of the traditions certainly remain: the Harrow Songs, Bill, the distinctive dress, Long Ducker etc. But if the pupil body is so heavily international and the school’s global brand is now arguably its driving force, are families still getting the same experience that once made Harrow unique?

I’d really value hearing from others – whether you have current boys there, or considered it but chose differently. How does this international cohort impact the school culture, does it cause division? Through, for example, a lack of cultural reference points and different cultural sporting interests - i.e Rugby and cricket.

Do others share these concerns, or do you see this evolution as a positive step for a 21st-century institution?

Do you have any insight into Newlands House Mrs Pepperpot?

I think if Prince George was going to Harrow, most sensible parents would avoid it, aside from the points discussed in this thread.

My son received offers from Harrow and Radley. So glad he went to Harrow, although I am sure Radley is also very nice.

As far as Harrow is concerned, my son says everyone is just a Harrovian, so it really doesn't matter where you are from. The house spirit is so high and the culture of the school is so strong, I can see for myself that this is true.

Boys are far less hung up about this than the parents are - they just care about what a boy can do and if he is a good lad. Harrow has a mix of boys - lots of white, English "old money" types as well as boys from Asia and Africa. It really doesn't matter - in my son's house there is a lovely group of boys from all over the place who are very close and loyal to each other, the house and the school.

I have never been more impressed by a school. Harrow has a brilliant culture which is extremely down to earth, which is rather surprising given its immense prestige. We love it and the other parents we know love it too. All our boys have had a marvellous experience there.

The staff and leadership team are also superb.

thank you for the insight

since your son had an offer from Radley too I would be very interested to know what swayed you/him towards Harrow

we liked both schools but Radley is by far the more popular choice amongst people we know

we do also have a concern about this massive internationalization of harrow and so I Am looking for some harrow positives!

Key influences on your choice and also your experience would be great.

main concerns from us are non participation in rugby, CCF and a fracturing of house relationships along international lines with boys breaking out into their own language groups

I think it is absolutely correct to say that younger generations - particularly those who have grown up in cities with lots of different ethnicities - are almost oblivious to race in a way that those who were born forty or fifty years ago are not.

My DC have friends of many backgrounds - white British, black British, Nigerian British Asian, Indian, Chinese, Thai etc. Were they to describe them they would never start with ethnicity. They might not even include it. In assessing them they would be looking at other characteristics - fun, boring, musical, sporty, clever, laid back, etc.

They have on occasions been dismissive of houses with a preponderance of newly arrived Chinese sixth form students. But this is because they see them as spending all their time studying for exams rather than contributing to the wider life of the school. They would be equally dismissive of a white English child from the Home Counties who did the same.

I suspect that those schools which recruit students at 13 - often from English preps - do not have this problem.

@Araminta1003 what a bizarre post.
I wasn’t suggesting anyone is excluded from Harrow. The point was that it seems rather absurd to think that parents may suddenly pivot their attention to a school purely because Prince George might attend it.
Choosing a school because it genuinely suits your son is sensible. Choosing it because of a possible royal association is something else entirely.
Frankly, if that’s the basis on which people are making decisions, it feels rather more like social climbing than sensible parenting. In any case, it's all hypothetical and irrelevant to the topic.

I would say what the OP describes is true for most boarding schools now. As the other poster says there are not many middle class families with £65k per child to spend so to keep these schools afloat they need to fill them with people with money and that's largely the Chinese now.

…says the very same person who on another thread argued that people from disadvantaged backgrounds were less deserving of a place at Oxbridge because they wouldn’t have the right family background to support them….

Honestly @Araminta1003, you can’t be criticising other people for what you do yourself.

@ItalianWays - I would have never said that, you must have misunderstood. It is not about “deserving”! What I may have said is that Oxbridge follows the public school model of work hard play hard for very short terms and it is rather intense etc. and could be a culture shock. If Oxbridge wants to welcome everyone they should adjust their offering to be less public school-ish. Just taking more state school kids is not enough. Where terms are too intense and short to work and it is hardly a good fit for many kids however clever. But like all institutions they will put their ideals and tradition above the individual. Public schools are much the same. The mantra is hand over the boy and he will turn into a man and they know best. And many people including the royals will send their DC to the school they and generations before them went to or at least some of their ilk in their wider families. Questioning what they do or not do and how they do it is hardly going to get you anywhere.

@Mrspepperpot1979 - the whole concept of “individual fit” for the child is entirely middle class. The aristos are not social climbing. They will send the kids to support the royals (despite the press hooha) and the schools that have served them and their families for centuries. It is just how it works. And then they will die and leave some money to the endowment funds to keep it all going.

You do seem to appear on these threads speaking with a tone of considerable authority while, in reality, talking a lot of twaddle. At times it almost gives the impression of someone posting purely to provoke rather than to contribute constructively.
Your own posts make it clear that your children aren’t at these schools, that you’re “not sure exactly how it works”, that much of what you’re saying is “pure speculation”, and even that you have “zero idea” about some of the topics you’re discussing.
Given that, confidently explaining how these schools supposedly operate or what “aristos” think and do feels rather misplaced. Parents whose DS have actually been through the admissions process, and who have first-hand experience of the schools and the system, tend to base their views on proper due diligence rather than speculation.

Thanks for your message. Do you mind sharing little more about the headcount of international students? I prefer a good mixed house for sure

Friends, alumni and parents of current pupils had already been consulted, that’s what informed the thread in the first place. That really covers it.

in your example school are saying 25%, pupils are saying 50%, whole year group photos of shell (Year 9) posted on instagram suggest 75%.

massive disparity there.

i think giving parents the message “25% of students have international passports” is cute way of responding to the question.

for example:

A friend was touring a handful of home counties prep schools and was asked by one of them which other schools were being considered for DC.

Friend told them.

The member of staff pounced on one of the school names and said “when we play them at cricket all the boys are Chinese” and then went on a bit of a tirade

Friend thought this an odd and very unprofessional.

Nevertheless friend visited the other school the next day. Noticed there were A LOT of Asian pupils

friend asked senior member of staff and told them the comment made by the other school

the response was that it was a incorrect because vast majority of pupils were British and born in UK, their families having arrived from Hong Kong many years ago. Seemed plausible

to cut the rest of a long story short, Friend later discovered from various parents at the said school that the story was completely untrue. Almost all of the kids were full on international boarders from mainland china. Many of their parents still live there or have recently moved to the UK. Almost none of them speak English and can’t/don’t take part in the parental community in any way, even in the year group parents Whatsapp. Presumably they just stay within their own community.

Kids also speak native language in school dorms which is tricky for when they make up 4 children in a 6 bed room. Frustrating for the 2 English kids.

friend decided against sending her DC to the school

is all that fudging and slight of hand about international pupils is happening at prep level, it is surely happening at senior level too.

Agree with MrsHLQ our DC is one of five boarders in their dorm and the only white one. All the boarders have UK passports and all live in the UK but not all speak English as a first language at home. They don't speak other languages in the boardinghouse but he said quite often around school they speak in other languages and very bizarrely set up race specific WhatsApp groups which doesn't seem very inclusive..

I'll add our child is not at Harrow but it's just an example of how 'international' UK boarding schools are now. All of our friends have been surprised by the number of 'Chinese' children at their child's boarding school. A friend of ours was a guardian for a Japanese girl at an all girls boarding school and she complained about all the Chinese speaking chinese..
When I as at school we had about 5 girls from Hong Kong out of 100 in a year.

The change at Harrow must have been quite recently. The Tv programme about the school a few years ago didn’t seem to have a lot of Asian pupils.

Not sure what happened to my previous post.

Have you finished choosing a school for your son? I’m genuinely curious what keeps you engaging with negative posts about Harrow over such a long period of time, especially if you didn’t end up choosing it. You seem to feel that the school is being misleading or intentionally obscuring the reality, but I don’t share that view.

Yes it says the message was withdrawn at the posters request so I presumed you had asked MN to delete your post

in response to your question, I think this is a really good thread and the original post was highly thought provoking

i happen to think Harrow is a brilliant school in many respects and a good fit for my DC, but I am concerned about the points raised by the OP. I do think they are valid

the idea of the thread is to discuss those points and I find it helpful doing so, as we seek to evaluate the options for secondary school.

it’s a really big decision and discussing it with others is a positive I think

Yes, that’s correct. That series was filmed in 2013 and is actually a useful reference point for this discussion.
Interestingly, much of it focused on West Acre, which historically was the house most associated with having a higher proportion of international boys, something pupils themselves rather unkindly acknowledged at the time with the nickname “West Asia”.
Yet even there, if you compare what was shown then with the position across many houses today, the percentage of international pupils in West Acre at that time was still considerably lower than what is now seen across the school.
So it does rather illustrate how significantly the composition has evolved over the past decade or so, something that many current parents readily acknowledge when discussing the school today.

@Mrspepperpot1979 - to be honest, you are just feeding the Rah-Rah Radley stereotype even more. Which I think that school has been trying to get away from for donkeys years for obvious reasons. So what you are implying is not doing any favours whatsoever.