Harrow School - a diluted global brand?

[Mrspepperpot1979]

Our DS has been offered a place at Harrow, which of course is wonderful – it’s a school with an extraordinary heritage. However, we're beginning to wonder whether Harrow, perhaps more than any other UK public school, has now evolved into something quite different from what made it so unique.

One concern is the sheer scale of Harrow’s international cohort - particularly the large number of pupils from China. While cultural diversity is something to be celebrated, it feels as though the balance may have shifted too far. When comparing Harrow with schools like Eton or Radley (both of which have made a point of avoiding overseas franchises), the contrast is quite stark.

Harrow has opened a significant number of international schools abroad over the last few years - notably in China – and continues to expand in this direction. While one can appreciate the commercial rationale, one can’t help but question what this says about the school’s strategic focus. Has the essence of what Harrow was – a quintessentially British boarding school experience – been changed for the worse or better as a result?

A number of the traditions certainly remain: the Harrow Songs, Bill, the distinctive dress, Long Ducker etc. But if the pupil body is so heavily international and the school’s global brand is now arguably its driving force, are families still getting the same experience that once made Harrow unique?

I’d really value hearing from others – whether you have current boys there, or considered it but chose differently. How does this international cohort impact the school culture, does it cause division? Through, for example, a lack of cultural reference points and different cultural sporting interests - i.e Rugby and cricket.

Do others share these concerns, or do you see this evolution as a positive step for a 21st-century institution?

I don’t know much about Harrow but I do know schools are not honest about international ratios when you ask them. At our school they use the address you write in the application form to decide whether you are included as international or not. So a Chinese family that has been living in the UK for a year or two already, or is rich enough to own properties in the UK, is not counted as “international”. Even though they were born in China, their native language is Mandarin, they spend their holidays in China, they think the Chinese government is beyond criticism etc.

It’s also clear that Harrow doesn’t consider the children of expats living abroad as international even though those children won’t be in the UK for any of the lengthy school holidays and therefore won’t be available to meet up out of school term time.

Hi,

The reason why I wrote what I wrote is because I was describing what I had myself seen. I have visited three times and not seen what you describe. I also know a number of current parents and they have not described that phenomenon. That said… I am not doubting what you have written and it could well be that we are just aware of different circumstances. There are about a dozen houses at that school. I wonder if the experience which you are describing is from a different house than those I had seen / know parents whose sons attend? I am familiar with The Grove and Moretons. I am not familiar with other houses. Although I am surprised by what you have written, I wouldn’t be quite as surprised if the choices of individual housemasters have led to an overflow of non-Brits in one or more certain houses rather than at the school overall. In times gone by on occasion individual houses did get a reputation for being too filled with non-Brits but these would be passing phenomena and change with the whim of housemasters - when I say ‘time gone by’ I do mean that this has on and off been an issue even when all the people on this thread would have been children. In any event, I agree with you that the example you give for that particular Year 9 cohort is not a balanced year group (and as there are around 12-14 boys in each year in a house I assume it is just that house’s year group you are describing). Do you know which houses were the cause of these issues?

My views echo yours entirely. I've seen the 2024 intake photograph as well as the house-by-house list of new joiners, and I remember that around a quarter of the surnames were East- and Southeast-Asian of all sorts - let's round it up to 50. I'd be extremely surprised if from this pool there were eight Chinese (and by definition no other nationalities) allocated to the same house.

If I manage to rummage up that particular edition I'd be very curious to see which house that is, if indeed the OP's hearsay is correct; it might just be Chinese Whispers. [Apologies: I'll stick to the day job]

Yes it would, we wouldn't want such a narrow cultural cohort as to be all white Brits. That's not reflective of the UK or good preparation for the world. The point im making is that the balance needs to be right and currently it isnt. As regards socioeconomic class, thats a different matter entirely and not one posed by this question.

It’s not quite that simple and formulaic; there are so many variables involved other than a magic threshold.

In my view one of the key factors is mix: it's more important than the percentage per se. A useful bit of due diligence when going on a house tour is to have a good look at house notice boards.

Let’s say there are 15 boys in each house in each year. It makes an enormous difference if the 33% chunk of East / Southeast Asian surnames are say Zhang / Xia / Qin / Jin / Zuo, instead of Zhang / Matsumoto / Kim / Ratchasakun / Yeoh.

The former should set alarm bells ringing, not because they’re Chinese per se but because they’re all of the same nationality, which may well affect the daily dynamics of intra-house / intra-year interactions in terms of linguistics, culture, cliques etc.

The latter on the other hand would be absolutely fine. In fact I’d say that if there are already Anglo-Saxon names in the mix then the value of a Zhang / Matsumoto / Kim / Ratchasakun / Yeoh combination would result in a far superior experience in both the short- and long-run for a DC than for example a Smith / Johnson / Cholmondley / Warner / Cholmondley-Warner quintet. Apologies to any Qins, Zuos and Cholmondley-Warners etc reading this.

I'd rather have 33% comprised of five different nationalities than a nominally lower 20% where all three boys are from the same country.

It’s why I’m surprised that the OP heard from the grapevine that eight out of 14 boys in that house are Chinese: if that really is the case then I’d absolutely question the housemaster’s judgment when curating that particular year group.

Thank you. Im not sure when you visited but its not a phenomenon that could be missed on any visit, let alone three. Im also speaking with more than just visits as evidence to pose the question. I dont believe that its a phenomenon specific to one house but the school generally. This is backed up by direct conversations with current parents from a number of different houses. When you say you are familiar with The Grove and Moretons, would you mind sharing what your connection is, i.e a current or past parent or just that you have visited these houses? The phenomenon absolutely exists in those two specific houses, but this is more a question of the school more widely. Historically West Acre was thought (internally at least) to be the house with most international students. Anecdotally, and perhaps rather unkindly, it seems to have been referred to as 'West Asia' by a number of UK pupils previously, so this is not a completely new phenomenon. Again, its about balance and ensuring that shared interests and cultural references are widely available and new ones actively sought, but one can't fail to worry that Harrow have seemingly not got the balance right as it stands.

OK, well, I’ve written what I’ve written and when you reply “not a phenomenon that could be missed on any visit, let alone three” and “one can't fail to worry that Harrow have seemingly not got the balance right” then it rather strikes me you are not seeking my thoughts but rather you are seeking to express yours. I did make three visits, I do know current parents, I do know recent pupils (and old pupils), and I have failed to worry.

You have referenced aspects of Harrow's history, traditions, and nicknames for other houses. You must have done your research. So, you’ll know that some Houses are more international than others and you’ll also know the importance of the House in the social fabric of the children. If your prospective House is more domestic (eg Elmfield or Bradby’s) or more international (eg West Acre) then your son will be at either side of the extreme. If his prospective house is Moretons, Rendalls, The Grove or the like then he'll be more in the middle. Only you can decide if you can or can’t “fail to worry” having met with his House but if you seek advice from me or others please respect we may have opinions different to yours, opinions which do not cause us to worry.

As an aside, I have seen Harrow’s reputation from the other side of the spectrum too. I know that certain members of the Chinese community in the UK feel that Harrow is actively managing its candidate list in order to reduce the numbers from the PRC. This could be true in light of the concern you feel (which I assume has registered with Harrow Admissions). Of course, we all are also burdened with the antics of Laurence Fox (ex-Rendalls).

What I have seen with pupils and recently graduated ex-pupils is the same charming haughtiness and self-belief which I see in pupils from long ago. I think the school has in recent-ish years become more international than it used to be from when you and me were children (I assume you are ‘79). But the core culture (self-belief or arrogance, depending who you speak to) remains the same. I would also say that I have heard from various sources that the school has pivoted towards being more British in very recent years (within the last four or five or so) (which would explain the reactions from the Chinese quarters mentioned above and the move of the dial that I referended several posts ago). Again, I expect the core culture to remain the same once this cohort has graduated.

From what I have seen (and, again, you and me may have seen different aspects) Harrow manufactures boys that (1) genuinely believe they are God’s gift; with the added bonus that (2) they are hungry to succeed (which I suspect is because they have spent 5 years being burdened by the knowledge that Slough Grammar has a more sparkly reputation, helping to foster a sense of drive amongst old boys to right that historic injustice). Harrow is more international than it was 30 or so years ago. But that extra internationalism just helps prepare the boys for the modern world - they need to be keen and hungry to succeed against the Wangs and Sethis of the World, not just the Cholmondley-Warners [which made me laugh when I read that].

Hi Crisphead.
May I know the nationality mix for The Park? And any other information would be appreciated. Thank you!

Hi Natsume,
Sorry but I do not know that information. If you ask the housemaster he should tell you.

Something that hasn't yet been mentioned in this thread, is how many non-white, non-British parents seem unhappy with the very foreign mix at top schools.

One of my sisters sent to children to a top-5 private school (I won't mention its name, but it's cut-throat competitive) less than a decade ago, and many Chinese parents were pushing the school to accept more Brits, fewer foreigners. Of course, this could be an example of the overseas people wanting to "pull up the ladder behind them" but they said that they were paying top dollar for their children to have a British education in a British environment, not to be in classrooms full of China and India's brightest.

Interesting post on Harrow Schoo. It’s because of Harrows heritage that we selected it! I agree however that some other schools like Winchester and Eton have got the balance more wrong, favouring Chinese and overseas students. The challenge here in the UK is frankly optics - no one apart from the aspirational, care for the extraordinary British private education system nor the institutions that make it - Eton and Rugby Group of schools for example enables the UK of decades if not centuries. Our political system now under Labour is going out of its way to dismantle this creating the bye product that is resentment, more elitism and a diluted value proposition.

I agree whole-heartedly, @mummycool1974. As a foreigner who moved to England years ago, I am saddened by the way your country's outstanding heritage of top-notch education is being quickly eroded. Shame on the current government for attacking independent schools in this way.

Any successful prestige brand - whether handbags or cars or independent school - must strike a careful balance between modernisation and tradition... and in schools, that includes the makeup of the student body.

I can assure you that you are misguided by your assumptions. My son attended the school 2014-19 & there were very few overseas boarders in his house.

Please keep an open mind, assess your family priorities and if the school is one in which your son will flourish.

I can assure you the school has its merits, although it is not necessarily the right school for every boy.

Good luck with your decision making!

But that's the point, school business models have changed dramatically in the last 5 years (as have fees) and will likely continue to. So student makeup has and will almost certainly continue to change alongside.

@Parent1234567 2014 (pre Covid) is a different generation. Since Covid (when boarding numbers fell) all boarding schools have been a lot less picky about who they say yes to.

Thank you, although I can assure you, Harrow’s student body has changed significantly since 2014-2019, speaking as a parent of an offered DS going through the process now. I respect your position and experience but the current balance of UK vs International (particularly Chinese) students has shifted. There are no right or wrong answers here, all parents will have their own view on what they want for their DS and as a family. However, parents should be under no illusion that if expecting to buy into a Harrow education in 2025 and beyond with a primarily UK student body who welcome a reduced international cohort, this no longer exists. It feels now to have the feel of an International school, welcoming international pupils, almost in the majority, to experience what they think is going to be a very traditional Harrow boarding school experience, but finding themselves more amongst those with the same heritage and culture as their own. This can leave the traditional, core UK families, once the backbone of the school, to a feel little bewildered and look elsewhere. The stated 80/20% or 75/25% UK/international student ratio is simply not the reality.

OP I know exactly what you mean. I have 3 DDs in Co ed boarding schools. And we’re going through the process for our DS now. He is my last DC, thankfully.

I actually think it’s a much bigger issue at Harrow than they let one. For context, we’re not from the South East, DH is from a farming family and we’re also a mixed family. A boy from DS’s prep school turned down a place at Harrow for the same reason and I secretly judged them. I was specifically interested in Harrow because I thought the international mix would benefit him but after two visits, I totally understood why the DC from our prep turned it down. The cultural mix in the school is not optimal if you want the old Harrow education even from 10 years ago. It’s not an English school with foreign students, it’s now an international school with strong UK roots that happens to have a majority Asian population. There is nothing wrong with this and it reflects in the academics but when you’re buying a boarding education, specifically full boarding, the mix of nationalities is a deal breaker. It feeds into the culture at the school and whilst we cannot decide the world our DCs grown into, we do have a choice and a say in how they are prepared for the world. You are right that the stated The stated 80/20% or 75/25% UK/international student ratio is simply not the reality, you only have to visit the school to see this. I wish Harrow would just admit this and market the school for what is it now.

Yes, absolutely. The original post and the sentiment is actually one of frustration, sadness and disappointment at what Harrow has morphed into. We so wanted to continue to love it, but sadly, are unlikely to be able to get over this fact. Sadly Harrow has found itself in this position, perhaps unintentionally. Its adapted to the position it found itself in. The more academically able UK boys (applying to all boys schools) went/go to Eton or Tonbridge and so Harrow got a reputation for being less academic as it also crept down the 'league tables', to the point where it has removed itself from them entirely. To change this, it recruited more international (particularly Chinese) pupils and expanded globally in these regions. Academic results have now dramatically improved, primarily as a result of this, so it now finds itself (2024 results) below Eton and Tonbridge, but just above Radley for GCSE and A level results, for all boys boarding schools. However, this international shift has come at the expense of the bright and good all rounder UK pupils choosing Radley, Tonbridge or other schools. We know of at least 2 other (UK) families from DS prep who have done just that, through feeling uncomfortable with the international/UK pupil balance. Sadly now, Harrow has backed itself into a corner and one can't see how this changes. It will continue to have less UK families accepting offers or applying as a result, regardless of whether it now actively changes its pupil recruitment stance. Those UK families will likely also have Eton, Tonbridge and Radley on their lists and Harrow will struggle to find its niche amongst them, for UK pupils.

Radley has done a good job of upping the academics without upsetting the balance. Perhaps its to do with widening access with bursaries for UK boys which I think is a good thing. I’m conscious that this could very well be vied through the lens of race that is why mentioned that we are a mixed family. Radley is more racially diverse now that is was say 10 years ago but the culture and ethos hasn’t changed much and as there’s no one obvious dominate internation population as there is in Harrow. Same for Eton and Tonbridge.

Good luck to you and your DS with your decision.

Thank you. This thread was certainly never intended to be viewed as a race issue. We hugely value cultural diversity. For a full boarding environment however, the balance does need to be appropriately managed, as has been done for Radley and Tonbridge, as you point out. The fact that you are from a mixed family and appear to have come to the same conclusion, emphasises this point. Best of luck with your own decisions for your DS.

A few days ago, just before flying off on a business trip (ironically out east to Singapore), I noticed that one particularly incendiary post had appeared on this thread. I’ve had to hold my tongue (or fingers) for the past several days before typing a response. This thread has taken an unfortunate and rather discriminatory turn: it’s a bit off to stereotype, disparage and vilify an entire group of people just because of their background.

I shall draft something out on the flight; for some reason I think more clearly when I’m at 36,000 feet.

But before I forget, I should contribute a quick sidebar on Harrow’s international establishments (triggered by a conversation during drinks yesterday on the topic of British schools in/around Singapore, including Dulwich Singapore, North London Collegiate Singapore and Marlborough Malaysia just across the border).

The notion of “other Harrows” initially created quite some handwringing in the OH community when it first popped up in the late 1990s with the advent of Harrow Bangkok and subsequently with the massive expansion in China, but since then has evolved into grudging acceptance – respect even – given the circumstances.

It’s important to bear in mind that despite the school’s heritage we’re a relative pauper in terms of endowment size: we're nowhere near as wealthy as the Etons and Winchesters of the world. This in turn has driven the need for international expansion: the 15-odd schools in half a dozen countries (taking into account the upcoming Long Island NY and Abu Dhabi ventures) aren’t there to evangelise the Harrow name but rather to ensure that sufficient income comes back to the Hill to support the school.

From an operational perspective, these are all run largely independently: it’s not as if the school is picking up random 13-year-olds from Harrow Chongqing or wherever and dropping them onto the Hill.

There’s obviously a bit of snobbery from the viewpoint of certain OHs about the other Harrows, but beyond that the closest corollary I can think of is UWC – in other words whilst one wouldn’t feel any emotional connection with affiliated schools, one would at least acknowledge a common link that may or may not be useful in terms of building rapport.

An interesting by-product of this trend is the changing nature of how British soft power is being established: in Victorian days, it was Old Harrovians (and old boys from other public schools) who would be sent around the world to spread British influence. Now to an extent it’s the schools themselves – or at least the brands – that are going abroad and doing the Anglicising. For the reason mentioned above, Harrow is very much at the forefront of this wave: not necessarily by choice but because it very much has to be.

Yes, it does seem like educational colonialism to me - I've a friend who has worked in International schools.

I’ve heard Asians are quite good at cricket…