Eton’s new fees

[IWantedThereThereButItsGone]

Heavens …

Eton College will pass on full cost of 20% VAT to parents

https://www.thetimes.com/article/3fbec730-288c-4a14-b91e-a042c94c7ca1?shareToken=3cff257bc445f9764343feeac522241c

It’s good that current bursary recipients won’t be financially affected (and how I empathise with those parents who must have been worried) but I wonder what the effect will be going forward. The new fees are staggering - perhaps it will change the tenor of the school?

This is hilarious as they went to Trinity which is a religious school and so selects on that basis. It is almost impossible to get into if you aren’t Catholic and don’t attend a Catholic feeder school and is heavily oversubscribed.

I live in Nottingham, less than 2 miles from Trinity, have a very musical child and she has no chance of getting in.

Why is this type of selection acceptable to people but financial selection so dreadful?

My son was at Eton 2012-17. I can say quite categorically that not a single family we knew there chose the school based on the A level results table. In his house in his year two boys were on full bursaries and another had fee assistance, two boys were sons of OEs, two were British Asian (one of whom was one of the bursary boys), one was HK Chinese, two were superb musicians (one of them had an international profile and was invited to play for the Queen at Windsor). Two more boys joined in C block (6th form), one on a full scholarship*. Most of us were middle class families of varying degrees of wealth. In other years in the house were two Palestinian boys and two boys whose fathers were billionaires.

My DS discovered that his 'thing' is languages. Eton offers teaching in more languages than any other school in the country as far as I can see, although I'm happy to be corrected. Their facilities are incredible, language labs, newspapers and tv channels in all these languages were available and used in lessons. As well as the two Classical languages, he learned French, Russian and Portuguese. Every boy who was studying a language at GCSE level and above had to arrange 40 minutes a week in their own time for conversation sessions with a native speaker (a good selection of teaching assistants are always on hand). DS was pretty fluent in French at 16 and had great fun on our holidays in France where the locals made a huge fuss of him. There were also exchange visits, one of his friends went to Japan for two weeks and had to spend a week in a Japanese school, commuting there on public transport in his Eton tails.

Then there is the drama, the 24 hour play weekend which rocked the school, the Twelfth Night set in a 1980 Glastonbury, the concerts which you would pay good money to see at a professional concert venue.

The school trips. Moscow and St Petersburg with the scary Russian beak. The design group trip to Germany (DS only did design as a senior option - they rebuilt the master's old motorbike).

Tutor group meetings in the tutors home, sometimes cooking with the family and playing with the kids, discussing books or films, fun things like go kart racing trips or theatre trips (if a boy has a famous actor as a dad you can get tickets even for that sell out show he's in). DS's tutor took them to see Germaine Greer's one woman show in Windsor as he wanted them to hear all about feminism straight from the horses mouth. Unfortunately she sabotaged him completely by announcing to the audience that she wasn't going to take any questions from men.

This is just a taster, so with all that how much of a flying fuck do you think any parent gives about where Eton is on the A level results table? I don't think many people give much thought to connections either, many of the parents have good connections anyway.

*I spoke to his mum on the last day, as a single working mum she found it difficult to get to house and school events. He applied for the scholarship himself and didn't even tell her! It was a shock when he announced that he was going to Eton. He also got to Oxford.

Why does the state system subsidise Eton? Education is currently sat with other areas that are tax exempt eg sport's training and other educational activities. They receive no funding for SEND etc

It is all down to parenting and how much time you make for your DCs. If you are full time working high tax paying couple - pay for private school etc - the outcome will be the same as if you work part time, fill in the gaps and send your DCs to good state schools. The Kanneh - Masons being the prime example. Level of education of the parents, good solid school, nice family.

Penalising those paying for private school because they work too much themselves in long hour finance or IT jobs, will just lead to less cash going round for the NHS and Education on the whole. Like I said, Eton, Labour - all coming for the HENRYS.
The HENRYs are welcome in other countries too.
It is quite fascinating. At the end of the day the upper class and working class stick together to conspire against the aspiring middle class in this country. How dare you get above your station?

And no, I am not a HENRY. It is just fascinating to watch!

Why is it hilarious that they went to a state school? A third of all primary schools have a religious foundation.
I don't object to people paying for education at all. It's up to families to make the decision. The state should not in any respect subsidise these schools particularly as they are not inspected by a state recognised body such as OFSTED.
The Covid exam cheating affair does make me think that it would be healthy if state schools and independent schools were all inspected by OFSTED using the same criteria and awarding them an OFSTED grade for effectiveness.
Independent schools use public exams to assess students so surely using OFSTED for regular inspections would give independent schools greater credibility? it would help cut out irregular practices such as exam cheating too.

@TonTonMacoute exactly

@pinkpopcorn123
SEND money follows the child NOT the school. Of course Eton receives SEND funding.

@TonTonMacoute "In his house in his year two boys were on full bursaries and another had fee assistance"

I'm curious, how did you know this?

My son attended private 6th form on a bursary and we were told the information was not shared with anyone outside the bursar's office. I know nothing about Eton, so is it something that's more openly discussed.

It doesn't, in fact it gives a lot back to the state system.

There is Holyport school, a free state boarding school, owned and run by Eton, particularly aimed at helping 'looked after' children. They run mentoring schemes in state schools, both locally and in colleges like the London Academy for Excellence. There is both a teacher and student exchange programme between Eton and the LEA, and they share expertise especially in more specialised areas like learning debating skills.

They run free summer schools for state school pupils some for sports coaching, some for Oxbridge entrance preparation. They also share their sports facilities with local schools and sports clubs.

The state does not subsidise private schools. This has been examined over and again. Exam cheating? What on earth are you talking about?

Honestly, I don't understand it either. I've sent my children to private school from 11-16. Adding up all the fees and spending them on a property near the state school Kier Starmer sends his to, I'd be a million short. It is ok to buy an expensive house that most can't afford or access a school using religious beliefs as long as you use state schools. Private school though is bad and he is apparently morally superior to me.

@pinkpopcorn123
Did Eton explicitly state that they received no SEND funding? That is a really serious untruth if they tried to suggest this to donors. What is your source?

I dont think for a second Keir Starmer is suggesting private schools should be banned. They no longer have an exemption from paying VAT on the service they offer. Which is fair enough.

@TonTonMacoute - that all sounds exactly as I would expect it but from 2012-2017 the fees were very different, it’s now 63k! Plus given house price rises etc it completely cuts out the professional middle classes and changes the profile of the school, plus VAT on the school trips potentially as well.

So how much were the fees exactly in your days? 30k?

@Vintago A quick goggle says that SEND pupils only receive funding at private school if their needs can't be met in the state sector. So basically, no, private schools will rarely receive any funding as I'm sure councils will say the needs are being met. Therefore I don't believe the money follows the child. As for Eton, no idea. One year costs more than the entire 5 years I sent my DC to private school. I don't know anyone who went and definitely don't have the money.

Why? This makes us an outlier in Europe where taxing educational services is illegal. A highly educated society is good for everyone. I don't understand why taxing education is beneficial. I don't believe private school parents should be paying extra to fund state schools. Why should 7% fund the 93%? They've already paid for the place(s) they don't use. Why aren't we paying as a country if we value education?
Which EU law will labour discard, food quality, working hours? That don't suit them next?

Of course it is. The mega wealthy could afford double the fees, it isn’t an issue.

Not at all, it SHOULD be like this, and a higher amount of poorer children given bursaries .. albeit I despise boarding children, it's just farming out parenting to paid people, but if those kids are from care, council estates, poorer areas then there would be some levelling up!

I’m in the middle here, but like @LlynTegid particularly triggered by the goady and unnecessary Times headline comparing the effects with the mine closures - which I know is nothing to do with any posters here. Such a bad comparison.
I grew up in the Welsh Valleys. My Dad who is in his 90s was good at maths but could not go to Grammar school because his family couldn’t afford the uniform (1930s). He came top in his end of school exams in the whole Valley but had to leave school at 15 to work. He was apprenticed to a blacksmith, then did his National Service, stayed in the Army for a while, then got a job in an engineering works here in S Wales. He then took all his exams in night school, got qualified and worked his way into management. Took redundancy / early retirement after the Miners’ Strike. He’s still enjoying his Coal Board pension!
I went to a Valleys comp, did well at A levels, applied to Oxford but got turned down (felt so naive and unprepared), but still became first in my family to go to university (90s). I did well in my career, thankfully.
We send DS a small regional private school, day school, it’s brilliant and he loves it, he’s excelled in maths and sciences and wants to go into engineering. He’s also been able to learn three instruments and speaks French really well, and has been able to do DoE to Gold level. He doesn’t know he’s born, frankly, although he’s a lovely kid and fair minded and left wing I think the outside world at Uni will be a bit of a shock. But I’m so grateful to the school for those opportunities and when I think back two generations, we are so so lucky to be able to afford it. We were conflicted about it but decided it was best for him.
Despite having to pay it, I support the 20% and only hope it does go to giving more opportunities to state schools. I’m not naive enough to think it will be transformative but it’s a step in the right direction. We can afford it, we should pay it. (I’ve paid a lot of tax in my life. Resented it more when it went to Tory cronies.)

Right, so now private school parents are supposed to be paying for all these extra teachers, breakfast clubs etc for state school kids (which obviously won’t happen as I think this policy will cost money due to moves to state, but hey-ho), and also stump up extra for poorer kids? Should I pay for your weekly shop too? Anything else?

This

Absolutely, this is a fundamental point that needs adressing.

@WS2009 - yes, you should! Higher fees, taxes, put back into the system to help support our country and its progeny

“Despite having to pay it, I support the 20% and only hope it does go to giving more opportunities to state schools. I’m not naive enough to think it will be transformative but it’s a step in the right direction. We can afford it, we should pay it. (I’ve paid a lot of tax in my life. Resented it more when it went to Tory cronies.)”

@MotherOfCatBoy - see I think they have manipulated your thinking. To make you somehow feel guilty for rising via hard work you should now have to pay for your privilege.

Accepting this essentially means that more kids like yours will not get the same opportunities. They will be made to stay put in their original birth rank. Just like you were rejected at Oxford, unreasonably so, 20 odd years ago. That has thankfully changed.

Eaton parents are really not the ones who’ll be struggling with this. £10k would be the equivalent to me being asked to stump up £100 - annoying but barely noticed.