Eton’s new fees

[IWantedThereThereButItsGone]

Heavens …

Eton College will pass on full cost of 20% VAT to parents

https://www.thetimes.com/article/3fbec730-288c-4a14-b91e-a042c94c7ca1?shareToken=3cff257bc445f9764343feeac522241c

It’s good that current bursary recipients won’t be financially affected (and how I empathise with those parents who must have been worried) but I wonder what the effect will be going forward. The new fees are staggering - perhaps it will change the tenor of the school?

Does full exposure mean that any tax avoidance shenanigans might be exposed?

I think you'll find that most parents at Eton etc have more than one child in the private system!

I live in a very affluent area. No one has even mentioned VAT on private school fees they aren’t worried about it. There’s too much cash and too many assets floating around.

There's a thread on here ATM with someone worried because they spend 5k a month on fun stuff - that's after school fees. Lots of people just won't care about the 20%.

Sadly not everyone gets the opportunity to live near good state schools. The most unequal sector of schooling in the UK sits in the state schools sector. Some are fabulous, others are not. My nearest one manages 48% at grade 5+ for English and maths. Some in the area only manage 11%. It's the highest performing school for about 20 miles in each direction. It has no sixth form. You should be very grateful for the opportunity your children have, many are not so lucky.

I can see that Elton offers education in a beautiful setting and the opportunity to mix with equally well off peers but I have no idea about the quality of the education on offer.
My own children attended a leafy comp. Did years 12 and 13 at a sixth form/tertiary college of further education and then went to Cambridge. I am aware that it is probably much easier for a bright student to be given a place at Oxbridge than an equally bright student from an exclusive independent school.
I am in no position to consider a school such as Eton for my grandchildren and I know that my children would never entertain the idea of private education. I just wonder if the quality of education makes the money worthwhile? It is an awful lot of money but in the end students sit the same exams and I think parents at independent schools have to pay the cost of their offspring actually sitting the exams.
I agree that those people who want a very exclusive education won't much care about the extra 20% on top of fees at Eton. However, part of me thinks they could save their money, send their kids to one o the many, many great state schools and buy them a house or flat when they finish university with all the money they saved.

This extra money is going to be transformative.

Even the optimistic estimates show that the VAT will amount to around 1% of the state education budget. Hardly transformative.

I think most people who can afford Eton will do both fees and house!

But that's wrong three ways;
I. The school isn't paying the VAT, the parents are (in fact, these changes reduce the amount of VAT the school pays).
II. The endowment exists largely to pay bursaries to children who could not otherwise afford the fees (ie widening access, reducing educational inequality).
III. If your objection is that the endowment should be spent to offset VAT, you are arguing that the money that currently goes to poor families should go to richer ones instead (ie, to subsidise full-fee families). Why do you think that would be an improvement?

Ha, you are right of course @Milsonophonia
I suppose, in truth, I would be enormously nervous of sending a child to a school such as Eton in case the teachers there are 'not doing education right'. I know how hard admissions tutors work to persuade students from disadvantaged backgrounds to apply to top universities. I would worry that it might penalise a student coming from a school like Eton. I actually think it is quite brave of parents to send them there in today's climate.
I know personally that Eton did offer summer schools to students from local comps to help them prepare for Oxbridge. In my own experience they were really successful at helping many of these students gain places at top universities. I wonder how these summer school statistics compared to Eton school statistics. The state school students supported by Eton summer schools, seem to be very successful at being awarded top places so I suppose Eton staff must be doing it right.

Well,obviously most people can't afford it. I think the poster you're replying to meant that the VAT increase affects parents at more affordable schools also. Private and independent schools range from anything in the region of 3k all the way to Eton 50k+. Whereas someone who can afford £53k can probably afford £64k, it's not a given that someone who can afford £5k could also afford £6k.

Unlikely.
It will have to fund state places for families like mine where 3 kids will be leaving their school (that costs nowhere near what Eton does!)
It will prop up reduced income tax receipts as moderate earners like me go part-time.
It will pay for state places for the 55 kids at a local independent that has fewer numbers returning this Sept, making the whole school unsustainable.
It will be used to bribe teachers into staying in their jobs when they have another 3-5 kids in their classroom (in my area anyway - the City does not have places currently available).

Everyone loses. Private Ed is more elitist and the gap widens further.

Gadzooks!

I don’t think any normal person will care one bit about Eton fees

If there are people who can afford it, it would those whose kids go to Eton

@Ivytheterrible

"Unlikely.
It will have to fund state places for families like mine where 3 kids will be leaving their school (that costs nowhere near what Eton does!)
It will prop up reduced income tax receipts as moderate earners like me go part-time.
It will pay for state places for the 55 kids at a local independent that has fewer numbers returning this Sept, making the whole school unsustainable.
It will be used to bribe teachers into staying in their jobs when they have another 3-5 kids in their classroom (in my area anyway - the City does not have places currently available).

Everyone loses. Private Ed is more elitist and the gap widens further."

Just out of curiosity, why will you be going part time?

Vintago
However, part of me thinks they could save their money, send their kids to one o the many, many great state schools and buy them a house or flat when they finish university with all the money they saved.

Of course they could but they choose not to.

Presumably because state schools finish so early and if you are rural (like me) there's no public transport between school and the sports clubs/home? Or maybe because she doesn't have to work full time now with no fees to pay.

State intervention st its best politics of envy alive and kicking on this thread. It’s not a race to the bottom this punitive spiteful tax will not improve the state sector one jot

Bingo!

Does anyone know roughly what Eton’s cost price per pupil is? When I worked at international schools abroad, I (very loosely) calculated the cost per head at approximately 30%. So eg if a parent paid £12000 per academic year to the school, the cost price to the school was somewhere in the region of £3600.

Just wondering if it’s the same in the UK. Either way I have no opinion on private schools paying VAT.

I think it'll be the end for some of the smaller private schools. Ones like Eton Harrow Marlborough will be okay.

The tax receipts will be less than the increased education costs due to the lower numbers in private system. It might also increase the number of children home educated.

@SabrinaThwaite your point is

I wonder how many will find a way to put thia through companies and offset the VAT?

@Parsley1234
But why is it a race to the bottom? There are lots of excellent state schools out there. London has some of the highest achieving schools in the country. Am I right in thinking that during COVID when schools did teacher assessed grades, schools like in Eton significantly over estimated public exam grades (cheated really). They don't allow OFSTED in to examine practices and policies.
I said on a previous thread that I would be nervous about private schools doing education right and doing it properly.
As I said before, most students have a much much better chance of achieving top university places if they go to the local comp. Best of all worlds is to attend the local comp and then have schools like Eton polish performance by offering intensive summer schools.
If I look at my friends, lots of friends chose independent schools at secondary levels but the majority chose state. There is very little difference in public exam grades and university places and job offers between them all.
Eton is undoubtedly a good school with beautiful, historic buildings and impressive facilities but students go there for five years in total. Most of their students would do brilliantly in a good state school.
I think everyone is nervous about unfamiliar systems. I would be scared of independent schools doing it wrong and it reflecting on my child. Many parents who have been through independent education feel comfortable with what they know even if it costs a ton of money.
Of course there should be independent schools but they should be paid for legally and fairly. ( I would have them properly inspected too to be on the safe side)