Wycombe or Downe?

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so dd has offers from both schools for a sept 24 boarding place.

we feel we have had lots of positive and warm interaction with Downe to date but Wycombe has been more aloof - arguably more arrogant. We managed to get onto a coffee morning having paid a registration fee but that has been it. The assessment days couldn’t have been more different in terms of the nature of the day for the girls and manner of communications in general let
alone interaction with parents.

Now she has received an offer we have a private meeting / tour lined up with Wycombe (having already had multiple interactions with Downe) and there are more general opportunities to connect eg a day for girls with offers and their parents.

I can’t shake the gut feel that Wycombe is probably best placed for dd but I wondered if any WA parents can provide any insight into culture, community and interaction with parents? I know this is about what is best for dd but it’s such a big decision for us and I want to ensure we remain as involved with the life of our little girl as possible. Boarding is being driven by her, not us, (I think we are too boring in comparison 🤣) and she will likely weekly board.

Oh dear! 😕 The silence is deafening. I think they are both top drawer schools but DH girls maybe a bit more balanced from my limited perspective?

yes it definitely hasn’t provided the insights / reassurances I had hoped for. We are going armed with questions and will hopefully come away with a better insight next week. It’s such a big decision and goes way beyond academic outcomes given we have been told dd will succeed academically whichever school we choose.

Girls happier and more English country at downe. More competitive, harder edge and more international at Wycombe. They will probably beat slightly better grades out of her at Wycombe. Depends what you want really. Like choosing between St Paul’s and Radley, IMO.

If she has done a full assessment day at each then let her tell you where she thinks she would be happier.

I was at Wycombe Abbey for a year. I hated it and left. Very elitist socially , cold, heavy on religion, super competitive . Also a very large overseas contingent.
All about wealth , high end fashion etc
Eating disorders were rife.

Sorry

I think this post and Olympicsrock are articulating more explicitly the sorts of concerns I was getting at! We did not apply there for the reasons ( impressions?) stated. Liked DH very much. Also grades are the not hallmark of an education per se as some schools cling very closely to syllabus requirements.

But agree your comments that both will allow her to achieve academically. It’s more about what style you are looking for than standards I think.

Thanks everyone for your comments. I really appreciate them.

dd is truly agnostic about which school she goes to - she has friends going to both and liked both schools.

at Downe we have been to an open day, a private tour and the assessment day - where parents were welcomed for coffee with the teachers and a talk from the head at drop off, and an afternoon tea with teachers and admissions staff at pick up. The day itself was, to me, shaped around selling the school to the girls as well as the other way round. There was a greater balance of activities in comparison to WA including art and drama as well as more formal assessments. My concern is firstly the head will change during my daughter’s tenure and the impact that will have on the school and secondly their grades aren’t at the level of Wycombe - but that’s perhaps reflective of a broader intake and I don’t have any concerns about dd achieving good grades, for me it’s a about the wider opportunities and type of person that comes out the other side of the school journey.

at Wycombe we haven’t been able to get into an open day as they seem to fill up so quickly but we did get into a coffee morning. A very different vibe. We were there for 1.5 hours but did meet the head (personable and business like) and the deputy head of academic studies (who ‘got’ my daughter very quickly and who my dd immediately liked ). The assessment day was very different - absolutely focussed on academic ability/ potential. There was no opportunity for parents to meet teachers etc - you dropped off from your car and collected at the end of the day. this may be indicative of the fact they assess everyone on the same day and need to run a slick and efficient process to deal with the volume of girls and parents . I did like the fact the girls were asked not to wear their existing school uniforms or bring anything other than a water bottle - I felt it made it more inclusive and about the girls themselves rather than which prep or primary they were at. Since the offer the tone and frequency of communication with WA has changed, much warmer but still v business like (not that I have a problem with this per se). We have a meeting and a private tour next week and we will be going fully prepared with questions.

being a parent is never easy!

I guess it is difficult to get a true sense of a place until you actually experience it. Most people won't tell you the truth.

Wycombe is a rather tough place. Academic focus is the top priority. It seems that its ranking has been dropping and Oxbridge success isn't on par with other top private schools and so it wants to get back to the top.

It has suffered from staff turnover too. In some subjects substitute teachers have been teaching a class for a lengthy part of one academic year.

For children, the day is long and even though there are plenty of extras one hardly find time to do/enjoy them. But most kids are smart. Also the school places a lot of emphasis on self discipline - not just the academic side but self development and independence. Kids spend a lot of time in the library or the study rooms doing prep and extension work and self study. They are also good in preparing kids for exams - lots of guidance and structure/framework for revisions etc.

But I wonder why did you pick Wycombe in the first place?

I have rarely heard good things about WH - too much competitiveness resulting in highly strung girls in many cases. Personally I would always go for the option that you sense is “kinder”.

When you have the meeting do ask about attitude to religion. When I was there at W.A. Our house was an abbey house which meant tidying the chapel and hymn books, there was mid week hymn practice as well as Sat am school and often Sunday pm church service.
Not much time for relaxation. I remember the sport being very competitive - think 6am extra lacrosse practice before house comps.
Some of the boarding houses are at the top of a steep hill which the girls walk up and down to daily. I would only choose W. A. for a super bright sporty girl who is a conformist and who was very emotionally resilient .

Thanks again for all of your feedback I do really appreciate it.

We were recommended WA by the heads of both her current school and her previous school (we moved house and moved school)

She boards a couple of days a week at the moment and loves it. We wanted a school that could do weekly boarding and was within a reasonable distance of where we live. After visits to a number of schools We then refined that to wanting a single sex school and a single site school - hence WA and Downe.

We were in the exact same situation with my DD. Opted for WA because DD wanted it (number of other girls from her old school going to WA). We have not regretted it for a second. DD very, very happy. Only about 8-10 overseas girls out of 80 and all girls seems very happy.

Most girls go home on Saturday after fixtures and return Sunday evening.

I think this information may be a little out of date. There are no houses at the main abbey anymore. Pitt and Rubens are in a new, modern, building.

Also no tidying of chapel or mid week hymn practice as far as I know. Girls have Saturday school until about noon, then usually sport fixtures. Most girls are picked up after this, around 2-3pm and return by 8pm Sunday.

There is no huge academic pressure from staff, but the girls seem very well aware that they attend the very best girls’ boarding school and seem to put al quite a bit of pressure on themselves.

I know someone who just finished at WA and seemed to like it, but if you like DH, go for that.

They are both v good schools - WA might achieve slightly higher but the academic difference is so small as to be irrelevant, go with your gut.

We have friends at WA and they are all very happy. Lots to do and very busy all the time. It is definitely very academic and a lot of the girls are going to be type A with type A parents.

We didn't end up applying because I was worried it was a bit too hyper focused on achievement and I wanted something a bit more rounded for my dd. She ended up at CLC.

I did like DH as well - but my impression was that it can be quite cut throat socially - and dominated by a very intense London vibe. A bit too "Made in Chelsea" perhaps.

They are definitely two very different schools.

I wouldn't be put off by WA being a bit cold up till this point. Give it a proper chance now that you have the opportunity to engage properly. That should help make your decision.

I found that in our applications we were courted the most by the less exclusive schools - which speaks for itself. Don't let that be the deciding factor.

I have found choosing senior schools for our DC a complete can of worms. Marketing always promise the earth and reality is different.. and as you say sometimes key staff change. We have even found recommendations from friends of various use as all kids are different and your idea of academic is not someone else's etc. Current school's advice was not that helpful - based on you staying til year 9 and boarding despite saying you want a day school..
Ds1 started at a secondary school and was hugely unhappy so after various discussions with the school and DC (and zero help from the prep school) we started hunting around for an alternative. As he was now year 9 they would finally allow taster days (and nights). This was super illuminating.. despite the marketing one school which had been described as academic and sporty he found to be pedestrian and only sporty for the elite. Kids very bored in the evenings and vaping. Poor discipline. So he didn't want to go there... And the other school he tried an international academic hothouse turned out to be 75 per cent international students (not the 50 percent) advertised, not particularly good teaching and a bit of a weird atmosphere..
So he's decided to stay where he is..

If you can definitely push for a taster day and night though I suspect this may be difficult to obtain.. ds1 also had a taster day and night at another school in year 7 and was able to eliminate it based on that.. again. Again not very academic and lots of bored boarders..

Ds2 is going to a grammar school in yr 7. We have now been ostracised by the prep school head.. so much for finding the right school for every child (only if they stay til year 9 and it's a good one to have on the leavers board!).

Good luck!

I didn’t like location of DH you need to consider where DD might go to off site to have a change of scene. It feels too much of an isolated holiday camp for the teenage years. Don’t know about WA but she must be bright to have been offered a place there but other posts aren’t exactly selling it.

I find your posts intriguing. From most of what you've written, DH sounds so much more appealing, then at the end you conclude that WA is probably the better fit. I think if this were a post about 2 different primary schools, one a bit friendlier and one slightly higher achieving, you'd have reams of people pushing you to pick the friendlier one.

I wonder if there is a bit of snobbery here. WA is arguably top of the tree academically. Prep school is likely to push you that way as it looks great for them to get girls in there, just as WA (and most public schools probably) push Oxbridge as the default "best" unis. It takes courage to swim against that tide and say actually, the Warwick course looks fab, or a London teaching hospital would give me more hands on experience, or I just really liked the vibe at Birmingham.

DH still get amazing results. If your daughter is fairly academic she will do fantastically at either. But to me your posts read like your heart says DH but maybe ambition for your daughter is overruling that and pushing you towards WA.

Rather than having a preference for DH I got the impression that OP wanted reassurance that WAs more aloof attitude to applicants early in the process is not symptomatic of a less friendly attitude in general.

As I have mentioned above, we had the exact same experience and exact same worry. Other schools communicated more, invited DD to all sorts of events and the test/interview days were much more friendly. DDs own description of WAs test day was along the lines of “wow, that was scary”. While other schools made the test as friendly and fun as possible, with group interviews etc, WA had an old fashioned approach.

As some posters have pointed out, WA is not desperate for applicants. They tend to get their pick of the best ones anyway. But it is, I think, also a deliberate attitude as WA is specifically looking for resilient girls who can handle pressure and unfamiliar situations in a mature way.

What I can say for sure is that we have seen no trace of the aloofness in the application process since joining the school proper. I find WA friendly and caring, information to parents thorough and parent participation encouraged. DD is extremely happy there, having not only made some great friendships but also gained a new degree of confidence. She loves the atmosphere, and the way they approach their teaching has certainly made her much more mature and independent.

I have no doubt DH is a fantastic school; we liked it a lot. I just want to reassure OP that WA is not a cold and uncaring school even though they handle the application process in a very standardised way.

I went to WA and will not send my DD there simply because I don't want to quash her spirit.

Imo they take very intelligent girls from very high achieving families and drill into them obedience and conformity. Yes, they get good grades but where is the added value in that? These are smart girls from extremely high achieving families. All the school does is make them terrified to step out of line.

Based on my cohort (I'm in my 30s), WA churns out a lot of well paid lawyers and accountants. The type who work 60hrs a week for good money but have no real concept of how to make a happy life for themself. It also churns out a surprising amount of very low paid or unemployed types. People who have opted out of competition entirely.

There are very few entrepreneurs or people who might actually pursue their dreams. In my opinion, when you take into consideration the family backgrounds of the girls and their intelligence, this is very sad. They should be some of the most privileged people in the country, they should have the world at their feet and be willing to take a risk to build the lives they want. But, more often than not, they are just work horses who hate themselves.

And actually while there it was a pretty miserable environment too. Lots of eating disorders, self harm etc. You can't complain though because you're forever being told how lucky you are to be there. Which, of course, you are. Because there are some girls who go to schools where the kids carry knives and their friends can't pass GCSE English. So of course WA girls are so lucky to be there. No one can deny it.

But, one time, I read an article about David Cameron's old classmates from Eton and what they'd done with their lives. They were all phenomenally successful across a range of sectors, mostly entrepreneurs living their lives on their own terms. Amazing. Good for them. But why are my old school friends all employed as lawyers and accountants or, worse, barely able to hold down a job, and why are they fucking miserable too? They are just as privileged, just as smart.

With hindsight, it's not surprising. The school got pretty weird in my time there. When I first joined, we used to have a movie night if it was one of our birthdays. That was canceled in case it stopped us from doing homework. Then no pizza on birthdays, in case we found the delivery boys too exciting. When girls in my house tried to run a tuck shop (sweet store, if you aren't familiar with the lingo) it was banned in case the sugar made us hyper. I could go on, but you get the idea. There was less and less room for anything other than sitting down, shutting up and disassociating from your desires.

No doubt you'll tell me I'm out of date and my views irrelevant, but WA had me for 7 years. That's enough. No way would I let it have my DD too.

This is the article about Cameron's classmates if anyone is interested:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3102957/amp/What-happened-Dave-s-Eton-chums-juice-bar-tycoon-scuba-instructor-Prime-Minister-pals-different-futures.html

Thank you, again, everyone for your input.

please be reassured I am not interested in using my dd or her school as some kind of status symbol.

@DornfordYates has hit the nail on the head - and I am also smiling as my DD said something similar about the assessment day (but enjoyed it as the same time - she likes a challenge !)

If we were looking for a school for Y6 version of me then DH would be ideal but my daughter is much more like my husband where, I think, WA would suit her better. This is also the view of some of her past teachers who we still have contact with and who have nothing to gain from her going to either school. We just have concerns about the culture and communication ethos given the relatively ‘hands off’ application process and limited opportunities to visit the school. However the tone and nature of the communications from the school have been markedly different already and we are going to visit again in person to meet the head, the admissions team and tour the school again on a normal school day.

I shall be armed with questions! (Whilst in denial my dd cannot wait for September and moving up to a senior school - time flies too quickly!)

thank you everyone again for taking time to respond.

Your DD sounds very bright, I would avoid WA as too high risk & she’ll get to a top Uni from DH too. Don’t be seduced by allure of alleged ‘best’.

I’ve seen the wheels come off for some & it’s not pretty & it isn’t always who you’d predict. Is she academically gifted, very popular, socially confident, have a niche attribute/hobby? - music, drama etc? First team material? If not, IME & IMO, WA, no.

Going at 11 or 13?

So to add another perspective as someone who attended WA (am in my late 30s so appreciate the Head has changed and things will have moved on). I loved my time there but recognise the other comments that say you need to be a certain type to really succeed there; emotionally resilient and self-motivated.

Having had the experience I had- I wouldn't hesitate to send my own children there if I thought they could cope and thrive in that environment.

my family is in the exact same boat. Are you going to WA on 3rd Feb? It would be interesting to compare notes.