How comfortable do feel posting here about things that really bother you?

[NewNameNigel]

I attempted to start a discussion the other day and it got completely derailed by white women. On that thread posters denied that black women are oppressed because of their race, called black women dishonest for daring to state they felt excluded, dismissed black women's concerns and even resorted to the angry black women troupe. MNHQ allowed this to stand as this type of racism isn't against the rules. After that I don't really feel like I'd want to post about certain issues on here even though its meant to be a space for us.

Does anyone else feel this way? It sucks really because sometimes I need to vent and prefer not to IRL so I feel a bit silenced.

This isn't intended to be a thread about thread - I'm interested to see if others actually think this page is working in the way it was intended to.

Happens all the time o o n MN and IRL such a shame. We need black peoples safe spaces asap

I totally agree @chickenwings2 .They know full well what they're doing. Attempting to bully. Ganging up. Wouldn't be surprised if some message others along the lines of "Ooh, come here. Demolition job by words to put them in their place." That's how it comes across. Ignoring them is best. Interject in spaces with headers clearly stating who and how = ignored, in my opinion. The Mumsnet Team shouldn't have to monitor them, as we're not in the playground.

OP, thank you for this and the other one. 🙏🏾

Tbh I think because of the nature of the forum it's going to be a given. I imagine it like when I used to work in particular environments, I knew exactly what it would entail. If you are to accept that the forum works more as a 'safe space' for white women then everything you outline in your post makes perfect sense. It would be weird if those things didn't happen on threads but you know that they do and they will because that's exactly the type of person who keeps the lights on. That you, I and other frequenters of this particular bit call it out for what it is, really isn't that big of a deal in the big scheme of things, systemically speaking. But it does good to speak out every now and then if the moment catches you.

I wonder if the same sort of thing happens on the sections for Jewish and Asian mumsnetters.

Doubt it

On that thread posters denied that black women are oppressed because of their race, called black women dishonest for daring to state they felt excluded, dismissed black women's concerns and even resorted to the angry black women troupe

I don’t post anything serious anymore for the above reasons. It was exhausting reading the same shit over and over again.

The support that was shown for a Jewish MN section should answer that question for you. That spoke volumes.

The Jewish MN board isn’t in active so they’re safe.

I did recently read a thread on the S Asian section about a woman who’s colleagues kept getting her name confused with the another (and the only other) Indian colleague. She posted in the SAsian board, asked for advice from other S Asians who experienced it....and well you can guess how that went!

Yes, it happens on Asian MN. These days I prefer not to explain race to white people. Just came on here to confirm that and I will leave now.

Thanks @CharlotteRumpling
Sending solidarity

In answer to your question OP, no I do not feel comfortable discussing certain things. I have refrained from posting on this section for a while, as I was so disgusted with the amount of racism I was seeing here. The constant denial of black people's lived experience from those who have no idea what they are talking about is ....... What is the point? There are no real safe spaces anywhere.

I can just imagine!!

I've have witnessed this type of behaviour first hand and the wide eyed denial when people are called out.

Same happens on the ND Mumsnetters board. We get told our neurodiversity is wrong. To the point that I hardly visit it now.

As a white, British woman, how could I know the struggles you face? How could I tell you that you're wrong? I can't, as I've not walked in your shoes. Your experience is yours and anyone who can't get it should just shut their mouth and listen.

Please post what you need to, on the board set up specifically for you. I'm ducking out now, as it's not my board but wanted to show you someone who's an ally.

I'm white and I see it all the time. It's white supremacy but bored housewife edition. They really do think they can rightfully silence and rewrite their experience as pp said. They pile on too so it's chaos to get involved. It's horrible how backwards things still are.

Mumsnet is hands down the most racist place I've ever encountered in a good 20 years+ online. It's insane how extremely racist this forum is, and the mods don't care unless a comment is literally "I hate black people."

And you're right, minorities who speak out at all get bullied and ganged up on in a way that's so obviously purposeful. The sheer rage that comes out whenever anyone says "I'm a minority" is terrifying.

There was a thread the other day about white women pretending to be Native American Indian which was an absolute shitshow, there was another about Brits not being allowed to celebrate Christmas to avoid offending "religious minorities" (obviously meaning Jews), they both just derailed into bullying pile-ons.

I'm sorry you experience this here. It's completely unacceptable and I don't understand why people on here need to behave that way.

There isn't any point posting as you don't know whether the responses are genuine. I don't post race related threads anymore there is just no point and my voice won't be heard. It's sad really.

@NewNameNigel

It's interesting what things mumsnet threads are consirdered inappropriate enough to be taking off to have a closer look be ect,
and others are considered OK to keep up,

whats the criteria, and boundaries 🤔 who decides how much of census is there on particular issue thread ect.

I really think there is of course a need a safe space to talk about our concerns , topical issues that effect us and our families.

there's just some things that white folks no matter how much well meaning their intentions or whatever maybe,

they just don't get it,

because they have just haven't experienced it for themselves,
for instance we have to deal with usaul causal toxic misogynistic attitudes behaviour, that white women experince but with another layer of Sharpe twist dimension of racism element in the equation too,
the different kinds of racism , the othering the fetishism, the narrow ideals of westernised beauty,
institution racial bias the police is a obviously well known especially how it affects our families,
the educational and mental health systems,
even healthcare,
white folks will say trauma of slavery happened a long time ago,
modern slavery still happens too, i know it can affect white women too,

Also general trauma is a real thing and can affect us not only emotionally, bit psychological and physically our health,

anybody heard of the body keeps the score book?

often generational trauma can repeat, just like a lot of historical things often depressing do,
if they aren't addressed and healed properly in a senistive , Holistic ways the issues behind them whether it's sexual abuse ect.

I was brought up adopted transracially, and have a lot of issues to do with traumas of childhood and issues behind being being adopted into different culture from my family culture of orgin ect,

If i said about this outside often and not , white folks think you are lucky to have been adopted as a child and you are specially chosen that this happened to you,
even luckier,
this was back in the 80s era,

They just wouldn't get the confusion issues about identity issues, the depression of feeling emotionally adrift , not feeling or knowing where you belong under the surface,
Masking 😷 this to just survive fit in ,
it's emotionally 😩 exhausting,

@NewNameNigel

even the lack of books and dolls growing up as a child back in the 80s that reflect how i look ,
obviously it's much better these days,

they just don't get it,

I can get on-board with white people not getting it. No one gets experiences they don't have. What I don't understand is some white people think it is appropriate to tell black people that their experiences of racism or feelings of about racism are wrong. I would never dream of behaving in this way towards another marginalized group describing their own experience.

What I don't understand is some white people think it is appropriate to tell black people that their experiences of racism or feelings of about racism are wrong.

Because they hear it as an attack on them personally.

This indicates to me their true thoughts and behaviour as otherwise why would you be offended if someone pointed out those actions and words are racist?

I have never in real life seen the level of wanton racism as I have on MN.

It is abhorrent and goes unchecked. When you challenge, they double down and it just gets so vile, I wonder how the hate doesn’t poison them.

It is an awful place for this, so I wouldn’t share anything that makes me vulnerable.

I think it's easy for people to be racist on here as it's anonymous. I imagine they wouldn't dare behave in the same way in real life. Sadly this forum is an outlet for what they really think of us.

I think a lot of the outright denial, obfuscation, and especially the disingenuous demands for proof (of racism) is fuelled by the anonymity but the anonymity really does reveal the depth of the harshness of their views, uncensored and unmitigated. However, I often doubt the notion that people without experience of racism cannot empathise or understand those that do. I think it's intentional. They very much understand it. And the very particular brand of racism meted out by a particular demographic works the way it does for specific reasons. I've always believed the true enemies of progress are not the flag shagging 'get out of my country' types.