Biracial couples - do you talk about race?

[CoparentingDad]

I’m interested to learn if as a biracial couple you talk about race together.

If this question is offensive in any way, I apologise and I’m happy to leave the forum as quickly as I’ve joined. I get this is BlackMNers, not an old white guy forum.

For context, I am a white 49 year old man and my DW is a 36 year old black woman. She was born and brought up in a majority black country and has lived in the UK for 3 years. She has a very obvious non British accent, we want to have a child together.

She works in a very conservative environment, led by older white men, middle management also being white, although they have a DEI initiative, the fact is it’s not flowed through to the day to day management. She gets judged / underestimated by being black, female and having an accent.

We talk about her day at work / interactions with others and race issues pretty much every day, we don’t always agree, but we believe it’s important to understand each other and I want to understand the UK through her lens.

We also talk more broadly about black issues / slavery (her Great Great Grandmother was a slave) and the impact that this is having on the world today. So, the conversations are broad and deep, often intense.

She has black British friends in the UK, most of whom have black partners, however 2 of them (both female) are with white men and neither of those couples have ever talked about race as a couple. NEVER!

I find this odd, especially as one of the couples is due to have a child in 5 months’ time.

Are we the odd ones out? Surely as a mixed race couple you need to understand the issues / nuances?

If we have this wrong, happy to be challenged, but I’d really value other’s experiences.

My fiance is white and we do sometimes but not every day. It can be quite painful for black people to discuss this with white people so it isn't a surprise that not everyone is keen to.

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Thank you for the response and insight, it's much appreciated. Looks like we're overegging it, however it's hard not to when I hear some of the ignorant actions / comments by her work colleagues.

As an example, at a team lunch, female colleague says that her husband can't get a job as they're giving them all to black people. WTAF?

@NewNameNigel - Do you think you are affected by not being able to talk freely about race/issues to someone so close to you?

I can talk freely to him about race I just choose not to do it every day. We have loads of other things to talk about.

I presumed that although you do discuss race with your partner you found it painful too to discuss.

Op said that 2 couples never spoke about race ever which is extraordinary.

My daughter, who is white British born, is with my Son In Law who is black and from Haiti. They have a baby together and another one due at Christmas.

I think it is down to both of you as a couple. However, much you talk or don't talk about it.

My daughter and SonIL talked about it a lot in the first year or so. My daughter has learnt so much about racism which she would never have known, and neither would I have.

They still do. I think it's good you talk as communication is key. I think it's had healthier than not talking about it.

My daughter has taught me a lot about racism. Both my SonIL and daughter talk about how it will be for their children as they will be mixed race and deal with different issues as mixed-race children.

I think it's great you talk and communicate

I think conversations about race are vital in a mixed race couple - healthy communication and debate is key. Children will as they get older will begin to contribute and learn also.

I'm black African and my husband is white British. We have talked about race before and discrimination I have faced pr could face. We will continue to discuss sporadically as I want him to understand how life can be for me and could potentially be for our children. I don't think you need to talk about it all the time. But do ask questions and ask for her thoughts and feelings

Daily, even if not explicitly every day. Been together 20 years. Race is such an integral part of who we are as a family and because my husband, children and extended family members have different lived experiences to me we do talk about it all the time. My dh has always found navigating work (finance) in corporate spaces challenging so we talk about that alot. He needs support, to feel validated and believed. A safe space to be vulnerable. We met at uni so we have navigated 'adulthood' together. If anything we talk more about race now than in the early days. We were so full of hope in those early days and the impact of racism has hit us harder as we have got older and had our children.

An acquaintance (white, like myself) mentioned, well
complained rather that her husband wants to talk 'about race all the time and how fed up she was. She just wanted to live'. It was such a troubling thing for me to hear. I can not imagine living like that. My dh mental health has suffered enormously over the last 5 or so years. My children too. They need me just as her dh needs her. I said to her 'I imagine your husband just wants to live too'. Not spoken to her since really. I don't have anything to say.

Yes but not every day.

Like a friend of mine's step-father my DP became a union rep at work, it opened up his eyes to more crap.

My DP is fully aware that people treat us differently when it comes to our DD.

@Lndnmummy

Thanks for a thoughtful post🌸

Usually it's a red flag if couples can't take about race, especially if one them is black. What I have always seen is the white partner throws a tantrum, becomes uncomfortable, only wants to hear the not so bad bits of racism, similar to talk shows and you have to be really strong-willed to engage with people like that.

the ‘not so bad’ bits of racism?

Poor wording , like those that do not require their input and it's someone else fault. I have heard this being said before. When it becomes personal, that's the worse bits because they actually have to deal. With it.

Sometimes it's okay talking about the issues, other times my outrage falls on deaf ears. We've been together for 15 years. He has my back, when we are outside, & he very protective of his young adult stepson, whom he has raised with me.

Other times, I get upset with his lack of understanding of what impact racism can mean in practical terms for people of colour. I guess, he gets bored with me going on, which I can do at times.
But, generally he's OK and solid.

I highly doubt that those couples have NEVER talked about race. Like, never ever, not even once.
Maybe they don't want to get into a discussion about it with you, especially as you say things can get very broad and intense.
I have so many intersectional markers sex, neurodiversity, race, sexuality it's really hard to pick one. But also by the time I'm done with all this nonsense I have no energy left to discuss it. Maybe once every few weeks?
That remark would in my workplace would have gotten a disciplinary. It sounds like your wife's workplace is extremely racist. How horrible.

Do you have or plan children- this changes everything and I have talked about race more than ever since we started this journey.

The problem with talking about race with a white partner is that it often is actually you providing a load of emotional labour to someone who is consistently challenging your views. So you might see it as a disagreement in a debate, when your wife might view your pushback as invalidating her experience. You can't really disagree as a white person at someone else saying something has racial connotations.

She might not feel that way. But she also might see it as normal. What you have to do with all white people including those who are closest to you. And that's when it's a microaggression that makes your every day existence heavier. You have to deal with it at work and at home, just without the malicious intent that may be present in colleagues. It's still exhausting.

I'm white and DH is Asian.

We talk about race occasionally. Either one of us might raise the subject. We have teenage kids and sometimes they want to raise the subject too.

I worry that this is a factor in my kids' life which I don't understand as well as DH does.

If you have kids, then I think race is sometimes going to need to be discussed.

But I can also see that if someone is dealing with discrimination, they might just want their home to be a place where they can "forget" about that side of things for a while. Or not talk about it with someone who doesn't have similar experience.

@Appleontherocks if you are with someone who constantly challenges your lived experience on racism then you are with the wrong white partner. If you have a friend like that then they are not your friend.

I've had various issues due to name, race, race and sex jointly during my life, and I've been pleasantly surprised by some of my acquaintances who got it. (That's why they have moved from acquaintance to friend in some cases.)

Also I wouldn't have a child/children with someone who isn't aware that their child/children will be seen and treated differently to them in society, plus be aware that sometimes they need to be the parent who is visible to deal with authorities.

@Reugny there are different degrees of challenge. There are people who will deny your experiences and then there are people who feel it's appropriate to question whether something was "really racist" while you're reeling from it.

I brought it up because of this part of the OP:

"We talk about her day at work / interactions with others and race issues pretty much every day, we don’t always agree,"

I'm very aware that this is a white man saying that his Black partner has no problem talking about race with him and that white people can sometimes be blind to how burdensome their questioning and challenges can be. He might literally be blind to how exhausting these conversations really are for his wife.

One day she might choose to stop having them and feel more like some of us in the thread who tend not to discuss race with the white people around us.

@Appleontherocks to be frank I'm not sure why OP posted?
To give himself a pat on the back, that he's sooo 'open-minded' in discussing all these heavy issues with his wife, and being a 'true ally'? While her friends' partners are, erm, close-minded cave people?

People are all different, I can barely bring myself to make dinner after work let alone have 'broad, deep intense' conversations. If the OP makes his wife happy who cares what others do.

@JaneIntheBox the OP wanted to know what is "normal".

Lots of threads on MN are about a thread starter asking if what they are doing/is happening is normal.

And again, why does that matter?
OP not only wants to know whether they're the 'odd ones out'. He wants to know if they're 'doing it wrong' and then in his next update have concluded they're 'over-egging' it.

It does not matter if no other couples talk about race at all, if the OP's wife wants to talk about that she should feel free to do so, and him to listen. What other people do is completely irrelevant.

And, as I alluded to earlier, OP's shocked NEVER in capitals indicates that despite his paragraphs of description r.e understanding his wife, debates and nuanced thinking it has never occurred to him that other people consider their topic of conversation with their spouses a private matter. perhaps they don't want to start a conversation about race by saying 'yes we always discuss it', perhaps their 'never' really means 'only occasionally'.

Me and my black husband discuss race openly ( although not everyday). My PhD research is in Mozambique so I engage with these issues academically a lot. I ask for my husbands input but I also appreciate it’s not his responsibility to educate me on the ills of white supremacy or colonaility. I think all too often white peoples with good intentions expect POC to explain racism when in fact it’s our responsibility to educate ourselves on both historical legacies and contemporary systemic issues!!