All white exclusive school or mixed school ?

[Doubtmyself]

This may seem like a no-brainer but I'm torn.

We put our DC down at birth for a very exclusive prep school in central London ( the type celebs and royalty might push for- prefer not to name it, but suffice to say its seen as a Chelsea / Notting hill school) it has great academic reputation and sends pupils onto the most prestigious, selective private schools in the country. BUT its very very white, we certainly don't 'fit in' wealth wise.

Paying the fees will mean sacrifice, we have only one child so it's a case of goodbye nice holidays, nice restaurants out, luxury shopping, we've costed it all out.) They plan has always been a good prep school then a grammar or outstanding state academy ( We work in education and see the value of a mixed education like this, plus secondary private fees are much higher than prep!!)

DC has been offered a place for 4+ reception in 2023. Since putting DC name down, I've really gone off the idea. Partner is still keen and friends and family all agree its a very prestigious school and we are lucky to have a place. We'll have to sell up and move closer which given central London property prices means downsizing, losing our garden.

DC has been at a far more down to Earth private school in outer suburbs, much lower fees, no uber wealthy parents, working parents like us who may own their own but not mansions in central London. DC has been at school's pre-prep for over a year now and its an all through school till 18. It also has a good mix of black pupils. In league tables etc its not that high and does well compared to state schools across London, but certainly low compared to other private schools in London.

I'm really torn what to do and we have to make our minds up very soon, stay where we are at a school that's fine and has children that look like DC, or send DC to exclusive prep that's a gateway to premier league schools, but where DC will probably be only black child in class?

I'm almost certain we can get DC back to the more diverse school.

I think this might be the compromise. I know the school attracts parents from all over London, and can I really know what the school is like unless we give it a try?

Our DC is very outgoing, happy go lucky child, the type that runs up to other kids in a playground and starts to play with them. So DC is the confident type of 4+ the school seems to recruit.

Thanks for all the replies, partner has agreed we will make a final decision after Christmas.

I was at a predominantly white private school for secondary (mixed) with only a handful of black students. We were fine although it can feel lonely and undeniably you could sense the racism from some other mums towards my mum.

Also to consider, you’d be the ‘poor’ people of the school, scraping together for trips etc and that will be apparent to others who go there, students and parents.

This sounds awfully cold, because it is.

All things considered, if you’d prefer the all white school, go for it. It should be available to black students and shouldn’t put people off.

If you stay where you are it doesn’t have to hold your DC back, with the extra money you could afford excellent tutors.

So my mum is White & her working class family got her a bursary or scholarship to attend a local Public School in the late 50s / early 60s which always has had an excellent academic reputation.
But... although my Mum fitted in because she was white & C of E, her background was in sharp contrast to her rich classmates from mansions with ponies & swimming pools & antiques.
She felt she could never invite anyone to her home because she was anxious that they would be critical of her parents & home. So she made very few friends and felt like the 'outsider'.
She was clever but disliked studying and exams, and her parents were too busy working to encourage her to study.
She left before (what were then GCEs) at 15 and went to secretarial college.

I don't feel that her posh school did her any good in some ways.. as she went on to work in an office, marry a mechanic & live in a small house, she couldn't then make friends from the same background as herself as people thought she was stuck up!
Basically she never fitted in anymore.

I also know 3 sisters from a more well off background who attended boarding schools and university.. one is a nurse & 2 are teachers, that's a lot of money spent on education to get careers that kids at my comprehensive achieved.

Also I've seen a mixed race close relative of mine suffer endless racial abuse from both boys & girls at her non diverse school (driven by jealousy I believe as she excelled in sports, she stood out & 'they' didn't like that).
I wouldn't send a mixed or non white pupil to a non diverse school.

Sorry maybe I sound too negative actually. Not feeling well today!

Stay where you are! 💯

I would put my child to the local school. Your opening your child up potentially to no end of bullying at the hands of very privileged white kids at the other school. Your child is not from an affluent background (not in these rich kids eyes your ds maybe very privileged compared to most kids around you). They are likely to get bullied for being poor and not being able to afford holidays etc. They are going to be going to school with kids who fly to St Tropez for a long weekend potentially and that will be noticed. The fact the school is all white kids is alarming to be. I am glad my kids go to school with children from other ethnicity. It’s greats a fantastic mix of backgrounds and a great learning environment in my kids school. The school have a large amount of children with additional needs as well so are very focused on diversity, inclusion and respecting the rights of the child. I think it’s part of the reason there is very little bullying at the school and good educational outcomes. Also my kids have lots of friends locally many of these friendships built through school.

Strange that a central london school has no diversity exclusive or not. I am in Winchester and see black and asian students at WinCol and the Pilgrims and Winchester is very white as a city generally, though that maybe changing.

I agree that just putting a child into a great school won't turn out the next Chancellor. But I also think that general attitude and the so-called can-do and driven mindset is down to personality rather than just parental encouragement.

Both my husband and I are the most driven amongst our siblings. Same family, different child, different outcomes.

I would say to the OP not to move her child just because of the brandname.

I went to a 98% white school. I hated every single second. I lost my culture trying to fit and was targeted anyway cos i didnt and im not even black. Heritage, inclusion and friendships account for so much more than a 'posh' education. Every one of my friends who went to private school is on par job/money wise with my friends who left without GCSE's. Just with poorer parents. If i had all the money in the world, i wouldnt send my child to a private school. The real world is not rich people and status, its about different people and embracing what you are and mixing with all walks of life in my opinion

It can be very seductive being offered a place at a prestigious school - I know, we've been down that road in a similar situation to you (albeit, older primary). I'm curious as to which Central London prep is mostly white -in my experience they are usually fairly diverse and full of international families. Hill House maybe?

We decided to stay put at zone 2/3 prep and Ds had additional tutoring for the super selective grammars. He also sat for some of the 'top' independent schools, all offering scholarships and bursary top ups (he was academic, musical and sporty). Our first choice was top indie but unfortunately the bursary wasn't as high as we'd hoped and was not negotiable. The fee's were considerable. From our experience at prep, we knew fees would rise, there'd be lots of 'extra's for enrichment, travel opportunities we couldn't afford and general comparison of lifestyle which is more noticeable the older the children get. Also, from our prep experience, there was a subtle divide between the wealthier and not so wealthy children which generally developed, due in part to the activities they could afford to do together - second/third/fourth homes, expensive sports trips, skiing, mums/dads in similar jobs, socialising etc. It didn't matter to Ds as there was a large friendship pool but we noticed it as he moved up the primary years and we were concerned about this for secondary and the effect on his confidence.

After a lot of deliberation (and much heartbreak on my part) we chose the second choice, a super selective grammar. Ds has had good opportunities and has excelled academically in a very diverse (economically and socially) school and has been happy there. Looking back and knowing some of his peers now who attended that particular independent school, I don't think he would have 'fitted' in but it's hard to say for sure. He couldn't have achieved more academically but there would probably have been more opportunities for public speaking, confidence building etc at the independent (he has always been an introvert). However, if you have a willing child, that can all be bought in through Lamda, debating at school, generally joining in etc. His secondary school have many offers for Oxbridge each year and I think the general trend now is downwards for Oxbridge offers even for schools like Eton and Westminster so this may be more marked by the time your child reaches uni application stage.

I would advise to stay where he is, tutor if necessary (it's very competitive for entry to the top schools) and re-evaluate at year 5 as you'll have a better idea of his ability then. It's all very fluid at 11+/13+. You also have other opportunities for moving at 6th form.

As an aside, City of London School for boys has a year 6 entry and is excellent (although sports facilities are lacking on site). Might be one to consider also.

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Professional and mental success (if that’s what you’re aiming for) is not just about the school, but also the social and cultural capital you get with your family. I’d stick to a good but not flashy private school, then you’ll have the funds to pay for extra curricular (Lamda, etc), musical instruments, tutoring for entry to a good grammar, and really importantly, holidays for you all and a larger space to live in.

Adult and ageing populations of towns may often be very white but the younger generation is not. It seems to me a weird perversion to select a school that’s nearly all white, especially right in the middle of London.

My dd is at a comprehensive state secondary school outside London and she is very academic and high-achieving in her extra-curricular activities, very confident, and white British. She has a hugely diverse friendship group who are also very academic, high-achieving in their extracurricular activities and a wide range of ethnicities and first languages spoken at home. The stark exception is black kids who are hugely under-represented in my town and hence in my DD’s circle of friends.

What drives this? Wealth inequality. My town is affluent so we have a smaller % of black people, maybe one or two per class.

The huge and widening wealth inequality in the UK is driving vastly different outcomes for children. But it is worse for black kids who are over-represented with over half of our young black population growing up in poverty. Whilst 34% of mixed ethnicity kids and 33% of kids who go on to Higher Education go to high-tariff universities (ie ones that require you to have a higher UCAS score) only 18% of black kids end up in those high-tariff courses.

But of course you know these statistics and your child’s life chances are vastly improved simply because you are wealthy. So forget the statistics about university destinations - it isn’t relevant to you as an individual family; you are not “averagely black” because your wealth puts you in a distinct minority of black people. So comparing the chance of any black child going to the university of Oxford 5 years ago with those of the pupils at Westminster School is completely pointless. Because this is not going to be YOUR child’s point of comparison.

where is your child more likely to succeed, where are they more likely to encounter overt racism and unconscious bias that reduces your child’s chance of success? In a posh independent school so white it hasn’t noticed that the world around it looks and feels completely different? Or in a school where the kids reflect the changing face of British society?

Also worth noting that % of state school admissions to Oxford has risen from 58.2% to 68.2% since 2017.

So when your 3 y.o. is choosing their direction in life, things will doubtless look very different to today.

my advice? Stop your DP thinking about statistics from 2017 which are already out of date. Start thinking about 2037 when your 3 year old is becoming an adult and examining the choices you have made on their behalf.

Aren't you also making a set of assumptions about how academic your child is? At 4 we thought DD was very academic. She's hyperlexic with an incredible memory.

Turns out she's autistic and wouldn't cope in a high pressure school, still writes with a palm grip and can't really do buttons. Can't sequence a maths problem.

You have no idea at 4 what your child's skills and aptitude will be so go for something more relaxed, where your child is already happy.

OP, like your partner I too am from an African country, have lived in the UK for over two decades now. So I understand his desire to want to put your DC into the best school possible ie most prestigious one. In my home country education is often the only route out of dire poverty and the more prestigious the school the more prized it is. However, if you make this move it will place a lot of unnecessary pressure in your DC. I also know what these schools are like, my parents sent me to a prestigious school, full of wealthy students. They were awful, terrible bullies and vicious to anyone who didn’t conform to the prized idea of beauty ie blue eyes and blonde hair. I didn’t and was bullied so badly that I lost all my conference and my grades suffered. The teachers didn’t care. Eventually, after four long years there my parents finally pulled me out and sent me to a college, where I thrived and went on to do an MA degree. I realise this is a different time and country but just because a school is prestigious doesn’t mean it will be good for your DC. Better to stay where you are if DC is doing well.

I'd go for the prestigious school apart from the needing to move part, as the cost of the stamp duty could pay for a fair whack of school fees.

My kids are white. I chose a prep school where they were in a small minority. It did have some impact in terms of socialising after school and we had a high proportion of uber-competitive parents, which may or may not be unrelated.

But, overall, I don't think it makes much of a difference.

I hope you’ll accept my comment as we are of South Asian heritage. I moved my DCs to a Prep school from a pretty much all white state school. I’ve seen such a difference in my children. It’s a very race and ethnicity diverse prep school. To the point my youngest aged 7 has said and of course they have no ‘awareness’ of this ‘mummy people have very different names to my old school so I’m learning new names and how to say them’.

Part of the reason I moved them was the diversity element as we live in a very white area. So I would say keep your child at their current prep.

Have you considered applying to another prep that isn’t an all through school and has a better ethnic mix? Surely there are two issues here - the fact that the school he’s in doesn’t prepare him for the educational route you want him to go down, plus the issue of being a minority at the place which does?

We made the decision not to send DC to a school where 96% of all pupils are from a certain ethnic background. It’s not just skin colour. It’s different cultures, religions, and backgrounds. It doesn’t matter how kind or inclusive the school is - fitting in can be too hard if you dress differently, have different family dynamics, like different foods, celebrate different holidays etc. Sure, being immersed in it can bring richness to your life but it can also alienate and bring much unhappiness.

@MuddlerInLaw not sure how you can describe private schools as hugely diverse 🙄Surely by their very nature they are exclusive. I guess it depends on how you measure diversity but it’s an odd way of looking at it.

Can only say what I see, SouthernFashionista.

For instance, I know plenty of children at prep and public schools whose parents could never afford the £million houses in the catchment for the best state schools.

And what ShockedConfused1980’s 7 year old said is exactly right, in my experience. While there may be a wide variety of ethnicities and nationalities in low income area state schools, that isn’t always the case in wealthier areas. Whereas the highly regarded prep and public schools I’m familiar with are multinational and multi-racial. Sometimes it’s the black children paying full fees while white families are assisted by bursaries. Such schools are certainly the only place I know where children of parents on benefits might be in the same classroom as children of oligarchs.

I’m not suggesting a £50k public school is a beacon of equality - just that reality isn’t always as cut and dried as one might imagine.

(And I hope no one is going to come along and correct me on my own lived experience of sending children to a variety of schools.)

Where we are now, in a wealthy London suburb, the students of private schools are definitely diverse. My friends children are black, Asian and have a good mix of friends in their private schools.

Yes but that is surely only one measure of diversity. Those same private schools are certainly not bastions of economic diversity.

No, not at all I agree with you on that. I’m simply remarking on the fact that London private students can be quite diverse.

Keep your child where he is Op. The world will only become a better place when everyone lives diversity.

It might be 2022 but racism is alive and well. I would never, ever put my DC in an all white school.