But you’re black….

[notanaturalmum]

It's happening a lot less these days but when it does it really annoys me. For context, I live in a leafy suburb with a few black families. Eg maybe 5 out of 60 in my sons year group at school.

Anyway, the house that backs onto ours has been empty for a few years. It's owned by a man who lives round the corner and last month he came to tell us that his son and wife were moving in.

Cut to today and I'm driving home and I see her unloading the car with stuff.

So I pull over, get out and go "hiya. I'm x, our garden backs onto yours, if you need anything etc"
She was fine saying lovely to meet you, let's have cuppa when we're settled etc. Just being normal.

And then her husband comes out and gives me the look and then the double take.

And I say hi I'm x (I have very English name). And you can see the cogs turning in his brain. I then said, I live just over there. And it was like his head exploded with confusion.

He literally looked me up and down (I was a bit scruffy but with a nice handbag). And I could just see him thinking. 'But she's black'

And I was a bit put out. It's ages since I've had that feeling. But you can tell can't you.

Just wanted to rant really because I thought things were changing.

Anybody else still get the look from people they meet for the first time?

@notanaturalmum

Unfortunately I was quite young back then and it was mostly in training placements so I didn't really respond other than a nervous smile.

Fucking hell! The OP isn’t asking if (white) posters believe her. How could you be so dense? She asked other black posters - because this is the Black MN board - if they were still experiencing a phenomenon we recognise all too well.

It’s not something I’ve had lately, OP - mainly because my interactions with any strangers over the past two years have been amongst my occupational peers, so they either know of me before we meet or they’re curious about what I do. In that sense restricted socialising has been a bit of a relief.

Although - I’m quite old and somewhat imperious now, and don’t sound like someone anyone could patronise. I suspect my rather severe late middle aged gaze freezes any potential impertinence at its root.

I agree. At least they recognise and actively trying to manage the situation.

And I could just see him thinking. 'But she's black'

So it wasn't someone actually saying But you're black... as per the title, which would have been out of order.

You can't really police someone's fleeting thoughts that they don't even verbalise.

You'd already met the man and were prepared to be friendly with the family, so I'm guessing he hasn't deliberately behaved badly towards you because he knows you're black.

You do realise which forum this thread has been posted in, right?

Do you have any experience of what the OP is describing?

thanks for all the comments.

to those that may have not read the full thread:

The incident hasn’t ruined my day.
I am still planning to make friends with them both etc. I won’t treat him any differently. I’m not the kid of person to bear a grudge.
I’m pleased some people know what I’m talking about.
I’m not insecure or anything and am comfortable in my skin.

thanks to those who made me feel better x

I'm a bit on the fence with this

I've had it a lot - but because of my accent.

I think some people get a very fixed idea of who a person is before they meet them and when that reality is different, it takes them aback. That's especially true of they've had a very sheltered life, not moved around etc

I hope you get on with your neighbour well from now on

We've all experienced everyday sexism, is it that much of a stretch to believe everyday racism also exists?

Hopefully he's just a bit antisocial OP x

But it's just human thinking. We all have thought that's not good. In an ideal world, people won't think like that. But we do. The difference between those people, who bite their tongue and think of right and wrong, and who don't, makes a big difference, I think.
The biggest difference is those who try not to say is capable to listen and understand.

To add, I used to work in sales, often with a male colleague and could 100% tell when customers wanted to be served by him rather than me (a woman) it's just obvious.

Yup definitely had this happen to me and understand what you mean. I was at uni and had a white bf, was at his family home in Barnes for a summer party. The door rang, I went to open it and two white people who got really flustered and said sorry wrong house. Went back to bf and friends, we were confused. Then the door rang again and bf went - it was his aunt and uncle! It was more absurd that I was there than they got the wrong house of a family member they visited all the time… bf and friends agreed it was my skin colour that threw them. I’m south Asian. It really influenced where I wanted to live and what kind of family and environment I wanted for my kids, up until that point I thought cultural everyday norms, education, profession were enough to be considered equal and evade racism (I’d grown up first gen as only non-white kid in town/school so with different food and practices). Clearly not. Posh voice, top uni, people still see “brown girl”. I live somewhere where multi-cultural families are the majority and I, and I hope my children will, feel at home.

We had 2 black men come into work to speak to the head about race issues in school which we are very hot on at the minute.

These two men were dressed as smartly as everyone else, was polite as everyone else and were ordering food like everyone else.

But after they got their food almost everyone took a breath and turned to each other and asked what that was about and who are they etc. And someone said I don’t know but I saw them earlier and wondered who they were.

For context we have different people in every day. It’s not uncommon that very important people are walking around and getting food but everyone just gets on with it as it’s so normal.

But this was so different.
Its been playing on my mind and I feel like I should put a complaint in but I don’t know what I’d be complaining about.

I guess it’s not obvious racism. It’s that underlining racism that is just as bad - like how can you afford a nice home, how do you not like reggae music, how can you not know every other black person, how you only got a high position job because they needed to tick the diversity box instead of getting it out of talent like everyone else.

Hi OP
Those who know, know.
Had this weekend gone when my DS school friends arrived for his bday party in a golf club around the corner from our house. It's our closest venue that offered what we required.
He goes to an independent and is one of four black children out of two classes (40 children).

Could see a lot of cogs whirring and a few 'subtle' questions about where we live and the cost to hire the golf club.

The upshot is that these interactions hopefully provide some education and reduce ignorance.
We had the same with new neighbours a year ago and ended up getting on very well. They are now well versed in jollof rice and jerk chicken (nigerian/Jamaican family) from our social gatherings and both sets of doors are open to children to play.
All the best with them!

This happens to me as well, @wanderingscot as I don't live in my home country. People are taken aback that I'm "forrin" all the time. I know it's not the same as what the OP is describing, but I can see the cogs turning as well.

I'm sorry you had this impression from them, OP, and I hope they turn out to be good neighbours.

Have a more recent example with my white passing in laws, MIL lives abroad and is in with the English expat community. When we were visiting she was excited about a charity dancing and meal event the community was hosting and bought the three of us (DH, MIL and me) tickets. We arrived together, she showed the tickets, I was RIGHT behind them and followed, the woman put her hand out and stopped me and said “this is a private event sorry”. I said I’m with them, MIL said I showed you 3 tickets. It was awful, I couldn’t stay and ended up in a different part of the hotel where the event was with some other in laws who came for evening meal.

Like @Onwards22 says, you know because they filter out every other obvious indicator (like above I am walking closely and clearly with my DH and MIL and wouldn’t be in that private function room part of the hotel unless I’d gone far out my way, or my previous post that it was their sister’s house of many decades), because it’s so unbelievable to them that you could be there, it just doesn’t compute.

For those saying how can this still happen, I think as we get older we find our tribe and our choices of who we hang out with and where we go eliminate instances but younger generations experience the same.

For those saying how can this still happen, I think as we get older we find our tribe and our choices of who we hang out with and where we go eliminate instances but younger generations experience the same.

That's very true, @greenwich23 .

Loving the speedy deletions on this thread!

As PP have said, I'm not black (this popped up on active) but also get the shock that I'm a woman at work when I've just been emailing someone (unisex name).

Slightly different thing, but I'm also from a traveller background and get this both ways! People I know from my background are shocked I'm a lawyer, people I work with are shocked that I'm a traveller! Most people are polite but you can see the surprise (and sometimes judgment - again, from both directions...).

It's crappy that people are denying your actual experience.

I'm latino (central american, half white latino/half indigenous), and I know exactly what you mean. I have been handed empty glasses at functions where I was an invited speaker - because they assumed I was catering staff. Even though I was in about £2k worth of suit and shoes. And in our last house our neighbour assumed that I was the cleaner- after living next to me and my white husband for over two years. He made a joke to my husband that he was paying his cleaner too much if she could afford a Merc and it took a bit of confused conversation to realise that the neighbour meant me, coming and going from my own house.

Eurgh! The clothes thing is a killer. It used to make me so despondent when the world’s most expensive suit* couldn’t completely protect me from utter stupidity …

*Not literally.

I think it's really unfair.
There should be a view from different people. If the thread should be responded by the people from same background, it should be hidden from active, and should be only visible from people who seek this board.
I don't think the deleted comment had anything wrong. Just that was different view, that was different from what OP has expected.

It’s not “really unfair” when it’s a viewpoint based on ignorance and is dismissive of the OP’s experience. It is racist when a BAME woman speaks about her experience and the first response is “are you sure there isn’t something wrong with you?”. The separate board isn’t to segregate posters based on race but to at least show that if you’re thinking of posting you should at least have a basic understanding of systemic racism and how it affects BAME people in every way. You can’t police someone’s thoughts, and it’s better they held their tongue yes, but “it’s a bad thing” because it reflects the assumptions that negatively impact BAME people, which happens even when we can’t see people holding it back in their face, when sifting CVs. It’s a flaw in society, and a character flaw of ignorance. It’s telling how accepting you are of it as “just human”.

As you can see from the posts here, no matter how we dress, what we do, where we live, who you’re hanging out with, the first thing people is your skin colour and react on that, excluding every other visual cue. It impacts our job prospects, and even the quality of healthcare we receive, such that black women are five times more likely to die during or after childbirth. Most of us have had a realisation moment about it and it is depressing. To then be told it’s your misunderstanding, you must be wrong etc every time, especially when you discuss it in a safe space of Black MN board is exhausting.

I’ve got another “they wouldn’t have thought that if I was white” story - I was at sixth form in a prestigious private school and my dad was late picking me up, I said “because his court case over ran”. The girls next to me looked awkwardly at each other, I realised they had assumed he was on trial not one of the legal practitioners.

Just that was different view, that was different from what OP has expected.

I think the OP fully expected that sort of response.

It was the opening line in her second post.

Don't really get the "I'm a woman and they expected a man, so they looked at me funny" thing. If I was a man and my name was Sarah and then they met me. Man or woman. Then I'd kinda expect a blip in the matrix moment. Don't know what it's like as a person of colour but I'm sure it's not the same...

If I was a man and my name was Sarah and then they met me. Man or woman.

Umm….

What…..?