But you’re black….

[notanaturalmum]

It's happening a lot less these days but when it does it really annoys me. For context, I live in a leafy suburb with a few black families. Eg maybe 5 out of 60 in my sons year group at school.

Anyway, the house that backs onto ours has been empty for a few years. It's owned by a man who lives round the corner and last month he came to tell us that his son and wife were moving in.

Cut to today and I'm driving home and I see her unloading the car with stuff.

So I pull over, get out and go "hiya. I'm x, our garden backs onto yours, if you need anything etc"
She was fine saying lovely to meet you, let's have cuppa when we're settled etc. Just being normal.

And then her husband comes out and gives me the look and then the double take.

And I say hi I'm x (I have very English name). And you can see the cogs turning in his brain. I then said, I live just over there. And it was like his head exploded with confusion.

He literally looked me up and down (I was a bit scruffy but with a nice handbag). And I could just see him thinking. 'But she's black'

And I was a bit put out. It's ages since I've had that feeling. But you can tell can't you.

Just wanted to rant really because I thought things were changing.


Anybody else still get the look from people they meet for the first time?

[Duploduplex]

Ignore the shit stirrers, OP. As per usual, they think their voice should be heard above your experience. They've been doing this for an age, and even the section, meant for blacks, is frequented by them. I don't think they can help it. Ewwww!

Anyway, I know exactly the look, as I am given that same look when people are wanting to speak with the manager 🙄

Just keep being you. Hopefully, when he's recovered from the 'shock', things may tick along nicely. Don't let one wayward look put you off. Most people are v ignorant to difference.

[Nononoyoudontloveme]

@RedWingBoots

Not sure why you trying to deny that experience? Do you think people don't judge people's sex and/or ethnicity by written information?

I have had it as a black woman with a unisex name working in a male dominated industry.

I have had:

• oh you are a woman.
• oh you are black
• oh you are a black woman

The worse culprits are HR and recruiters. Luckily young people from diverse backgrounds are going into both so I've had it less in the last 5 years.

Yes!

And when the look is replaced by a 'oh my gosh I LOVE that you're black'. I could give and receive that look all day. Love it.

[Nononoyoudontloveme]

Had this so often I hardly know which instance to choose.

There was a time when we were renting. It was a nice house, the rent was quite steep. We decided to move and so the agent started sending round prospective tenants. So we would either go and answer the door, or they would need to walk down a corridor (led by the agent) which opened up to the living room, where we would be sitting /cooking / playing. I like to call that moment 'The Reveal!' Every single time the white home seekers would visibly stand there with their mouths open. One even scrunched up his face an started to say 'b...' as in 'but you're black'. We almost fell over ourselves laughing when that lot left.

I ended up emailing the landlord and agent to say don't bother showing people round while we're living here because these people simply will not be able to rent a place feeling they are 'following' black people who have done it first. They just won't be able to. They won't be able to feel like black people have been there, done that, and moved on.

Sad, but true.

To be fair, it was a surprise that we lived there, because usually black people buy their homes if they have that kind of money to rent, I don't think we are usually renting people if we can afford to buy, because that just leaves up open to racism in the real market which is real. So yeah, in that sense it was uncharacteristic, but not for the reasons these white people thought!

So, we did go on to buy. Once we had moved about a 10 minute walk away, DP mentioned that once when he came home, a white woman who lives in the area was so, let's say 'surprised' to see him putting his key into the door that she nearly walked into the lamppost, such was the contortion she was inflicting upon her neck as she walked by.

I wish she had.

The thing is 20 or 30 years ago this WAS a black area. It's just gentrified now. AFAIC these are my Ends!!!! I was literally born 1.5 miles away. So funny.

[LillyFlower1984]

@PompomDahlia
I was considering Winchester (DH still is really) but due to this I was also really concerned about living in such an area. Haven't completely ruled it out in the future because of schools but I am having reservations.

[LillyFlower1984]

Sadly you get this with any public facing role of high standing. It does indeed work both ways if you are black or female in make dominated roles traditionally. Double worse if black and female.

[PompomDahlia]

@notanaturalmum I believe you and I get that look a lot. I live in a posh white enclave of S London (which I now regret a bit) because I get the look a lot. Either that or people look through me assuming I’m a nanny/help. You can see the look of surprise at my appearance not matching my very traditional English name.

As for the non-believers, years ago I had a neighbour who was always ‘off’ with me but charming to white DH. He initially dismissed my thoughts that it was racism. Then one day she opened up to him about worrying ‘a load of Somalis’ were going to move into a vacant house and how she’d have to get a security gate if that happened. That was a lesson for DH

[UmmH]

It happens all the time. Even worse if you're black and wear hijab.
"Where did you learn to speak like that?"
"Where's your husband from?"(thinking I must be married to an Englishman and my surname must be his).
Being blanked, even when being introduced.
Going into a new workplace and people looking for the new colleague while ignoring the person standing right in front of them.
Neighbours pretending not to see you when you pass them in the streets.
These things have been happening for generations. One's instinct about them is never wrong. When I was young and naive I always used to give people the benefit of the doubt. It never went well. Now I'm on my guard to protect myself.

OP I'd be tempted to blast loud reggae music in the garden and watch his face turn purple 😂

[RedWingBoots]

@Ipigglemustdie

Don't really get the "I'm a woman and they expected a man, so they looked at me funny" thing. If I was a man and my name was Sarah and then they met me. Man or woman. Then I'd kinda expect a blip in the matrix moment. Don't know what it's like as a person of colour but I'm sure it's not the same...

Not sure why you trying to deny that experience? Do you think people don't judge people's sex and/or ethnicity by written information?

I have had it as a black woman with a unisex name working in a male dominated industry.

I have had:

• oh you are a woman.
• oh you are black
• oh you are a black woman

The worse culprits are HR and recruiters. Luckily young people from diverse backgrounds are going into both so I've had it less in the last 5 years.

[Lndnmummy]

@notanaturalmum I am so sorry this happened to you and I am so sorry that white people are trying to tell you that what you are experiencing isn't what you are experiencing. Like another poster upthread @Anotherdayanotherdisappointment I'm white and my dh and children are black. We get the version above, frequently. Its bullshit. The eye bulging, the awkward silence, not knowing what to say. Often a "so where is your husband from" me refusing to play the game "Birmingham". Them "where is he really from". Me head tilt huge smile "Birmingham". One lady actually stomped her foot and went "where is he from from". Me
"still Birmingham" 😅

[Throwawaytoday]

@Ipigglemustdie

Sure if your name was Sarah... or Nicolas...

But what if it's Sam, Alex, Blake, Drew, Jordan, Cameron, or Charlie?

[Starseeking]

I know exactly what you mean OP, and I'm sad that you had to have this happen to you.

One of my friends lives in a similar sounding area to yours, and he once had the police knocking on his door, asking him what he was doing in the house. My friend responded that he lives there. In his shock, my friend even showed him the house deeds to prove his ownership. The policeman mumbled some nonsense about looking for someone who fit his description in the area.

I also have friends who have very English names (these are my Caribbean friends). When going for interviews, they regularly get looked over while waiting in reception until identifying themselves, then the "oh you're Black" looks start.

Early on in my career, I happened to call a client in Switzerland who I'd been emailing regularly for about a year, but had never spoken to. I have a name that is unambiguously from an African country, included in my email. The client actually blurted out "I can't believe you speak like that" (my accent is pure Home Counties). I asked "speak like what?". Then I left her hanging on the phone in silence while she tried to mumble some rubbish while we both knew she meant she didn't expect a Black person to sound like me.

These people are everywhere, I wouldn't give them the time of day if I were you, they've already formed their world view.

[RenegadeMatron]

If I was a man and my name was Sarah and then they met me. Man or woman.

Umm….

What…..?

[Ipigglemustdie]

Don't really get the "I'm a woman and they expected a man, so they looked at me funny" thing. If I was a man and my name was Sarah and then they met me. Man or woman. Then I'd kinda expect a blip in the matrix moment. Don't know what it's like as a person of colour but I'm sure it's not the same...

[RenegadeMatron]

Just that was different view, that was different from what OP has expected.

I think the OP fully expected that sort of response.

It was the opening line in her second post.

[greenwich23]

It’s not “really unfair” when it’s a viewpoint based on ignorance and is dismissive of the OP’s experience. It is racist when a BAME woman speaks about her experience and the first response is “are you sure there isn’t something wrong with you?”. The separate board isn’t to segregate posters based on race but to at least show that if you’re thinking of posting you should at least have a basic understanding of systemic racism and how it affects BAME people in every way. You can’t police someone’s thoughts, and it’s better they held their tongue yes, but “it’s a bad thing” because it reflects the assumptions that negatively impact BAME people, which happens even when we can’t see people holding it back in their face, when sifting CVs. It’s a flaw in society, and a character flaw of ignorance. It’s telling how accepting you are of it as “just human”.

As you can see from the posts here, no matter how we dress, what we do, where we live, who you’re hanging out with, the first thing people is your skin colour and react on that, excluding every other visual cue. It impacts our job prospects, and even the quality of healthcare we receive, such that black women are five times more likely to die during or after childbirth. Most of us have had a realisation moment about it and it is depressing. To then be told it’s your misunderstanding, you must be wrong etc every time, especially when you discuss it in a safe space of Black MN board is exhausting.

I’ve got another “they wouldn’t have thought that if I was white” story - I was at sixth form in a prestigious private school and my dad was late picking me up, I said “because his court case over ran”. The girls next to me looked awkwardly at each other, I realised they had assumed he was on trial not one of the legal practitioners.

[grapehyacinthisactuallyblue]

@TottersBlankly

Loving the speedy deletions on this thread!

I think it's really unfair.
There should be a view from different people. If the thread should be responded by the people from same background, it should be hidden from active, and should be only visible from people who seek this board.
I don't think the deleted comment had anything wrong. Just that was different view, that was different from what OP has expected.

[TottersBlankly]

Eurgh! The clothes thing is a killer. It used to make me so despondent when the world’s most expensive suit* couldn’t completely protect me from utter stupidity …

*Not literally.

[wallpoppy]

I'm latino (central american, half white latino/half indigenous), and I know exactly what you mean. I have been handed empty glasses at functions where I was an invited speaker - because they assumed I was catering staff. Even though I was in about £2k worth of suit and shoes. And in our last house our neighbour assumed that I was the cleaner- after living next to me and my white husband for over two years. He made a joke to my husband that he was paying his cleaner too much if she could afford a Merc and it took a bit of confused conversation to realise that the neighbour meant me, coming and going from my own house.

[SAB50]

As PP have said, I'm not black (this popped up on active) but also get the shock that I'm a woman at work when I've just been emailing someone (unisex name).

Slightly different thing, but I'm also from a traveller background and get this both ways! People I know from my background are shocked I'm a lawyer, people I work with are shocked that I'm a traveller! Most people are polite but you can see the surprise (and sometimes judgment - again, from both directions...).

It's crappy that people are denying your actual experience.

[TottersBlankly]

Loving the speedy deletions on this thread!

[Cameleongirl]

For those saying how can this still happen, I think as we get older we find our tribe and our choices of who we hang out with and where we go eliminate instances but younger generations experience the same.

That's very true, @greenwich23 .

[greenwich23]

Have a more recent example with my white passing in laws, MIL lives abroad and is in with the English expat community. When we were visiting she was excited about a charity dancing and meal event the community was hosting and bought the three of us (DH, MIL and me) tickets. We arrived together, she showed the tickets, I was RIGHT behind them and followed, the woman put her hand out and stopped me and said “this is a private event sorry”. I said I’m with them, MIL said I showed you 3 tickets. It was awful, I couldn’t stay and ended up in a different part of the hotel where the event was with some other in laws who came for evening meal.

Like @Onwards22 says, you know because they filter out every other obvious indicator (like above I am walking closely and clearly with my DH and MIL and wouldn’t be in that private function room part of the hotel unless I’d gone far out my way, or my previous post that it was their sister’s house of many decades), because it’s so unbelievable to them that you could be there, it just doesn’t compute.

For those saying how can this still happen, I think as we get older we find our tribe and our choices of who we hang out with and where we go eliminate instances but younger generations experience the same.

[Cameleongirl]

@wanderingscot

I'm a bit on the fence with this

I've had it a lot - but because of my accent.

I think some people get a very fixed idea of who a person is before they meet them and when that reality is different, it takes them aback. That's especially true of they've had a very sheltered life, not moved around etc

I hope you get on with your neighbour well from now on

This happens to me as well, @wanderingscot as I don't live in my home country. People are taken aback that I'm "forrin" all the time. I know it's not the same as what the OP is describing, but I can see the cogs turning as well.

I'm sorry you had this impression from them, OP, and I hope they turn out to be good neighbours.

[Ribb]

Hi OP
Those who know, know.
Had this weekend gone when my DS school friends arrived for his bday party in a golf club around the corner from our house. It's our closest venue that offered what we required.
He goes to an independent and is one of four black children out of two classes (40 children).
Could see a lot of cogs whirring and a few 'subtle' questions about where we live and the cost to hire the golf club.

The upshot is that these interactions hopefully provide some education and reduce ignorance.
We had the same with new neighbours a year ago and ended up getting on very well. They are now well versed in jollof rice and jerk chicken (nigerian/Jamaican family) from our social gatherings and both sets of doors are open to children to play.
All the best with them!