Not getting the job

[Perfectlyadjusted]

So I didn't get a job. I went for a job at work that I have been doing for three years, along with my white colleague who has been doing the same.

My white no children colleague was eventually offered the job (it went to someone else whom I do not know first, but they turned it down). The thing is, after her interview my colleague called me and said she thinks it only went 'ok-ish' that she waffled, and on a few occasions the interviewers had to pull her back on track. My interview was strong, I felt it.

The feedback I got back was I did not mention a certain concept (white colleague told me she didn't either) and one other issue. White colleague said they mentioned a few issues to her. The interviewer said I was very appointable, but just not this time, do go for the next one to come up. My white colleague said she had feedback that her interview was strong which is not how she felt about it. But they said to her on that let down phonemail 'if this doesn't work out with no. 1 we'll come back to you'.

In the meantime, I am not happy but moving on with my life.
My Indian friend at work calls me and tells me that not for the first time, she had a meeting with the woman who interviewed me (and didn't give me the promotion) and that woman called her by my name, twice. She said it had happened before and she had always corrected the woman, but this time she couldn't be bothered. She was fuming though, needed to leave her wfh desk and go for a walk to shake it off.

I'm not saying my not getting the job was impacted by racial bias in any way. But I am saying it smells hella fishy and I'm sick of this shit. I cannot be sure it's nothing to do with me being black, or a mum (no one else on my team has kids), why the person who interviewed me and has worked on my team for 3 years cannot really differentiate between the two brown skinned women on the team (I mean, mistaking a very clearly INDIAN woman for a BLACK one with curly afro hair and think lips - grrrrrr and arrrggghhh). Is this also why I just didn't strike her as being no 2 out of 3 going for the job, but instead I'm no. 3?

You know?

I'm just over this shit, I really really am.

I started my own business last week when I didn't;t get the job, and I'm staying that course. I'll be resigning within 6 months.

F these people. That's why black people break out and go it alone. I['m done with white people managing me but looking right through me. I'm done.

You're right, OP that is hella fishy. I'd be fuming too. It does sound like racial bias.

First off, I would discount your White colleague's account to you of how their interview went. I would do the same, very British thing of downplaying my performance (mentioning the waffling / needing to be pulled back on track). Assume that they did absolutely fine and interviewed adequately.

I think the bigger issue is around the constant mistaking you and your other non-White colleague (a common micro aggression). That needs to be raised with HR by both of you - and I would also tack on your concern with racial bias in the interview as well.

Apparently we were both 'appointable'. So why am I just slightly less appointable.

Oh, let's throw in that actually white colleague joined the team after me and I showed her the ropes. Isn't this the same shit different decade?

My colleague can only take the job as a job share with me due to other commitments. I might just tell them to shove it and stay on my game.

If you are in a union, then seek advice re potentially unlawful race discrimination.
Otherwise, contact the following.
www.equalityadvisoryservice.com/

Hmm I don't know OP. I think in a lot of work places it's clicky anyway and they employ who they like not necessarily who is the best sometimes.

Good luck with your business venture.

If you are both appointable I'd be wondering why they didn't appoint you because you where black (assuming you are underrepresented).

Do join a Union. It stinks. As an aside many people make a point of using BAME small businesses so if that’s the route you take🤞

You mention she doesn't have children, is she child bearing age? Surely its discrimination there too - either from a business perspective it makes sense to appoint the person less likely to cost them in maternity leave and temp replacement - so why not you? - or they've been short sighted and discriminatory thinking you won't be as "committed" to the role as you have children?

Did you get any more formal feedback breakdown after the interview, aside from being told you were both "appointable" and not mentioning a certain concept?

You could certainly pursue this and the interview process (including the detailed analysis between candidates and selection) would be examined for any evidence of bias. My advice would be not to burn your bridges in any case.

Aside from your colleague downplaying their own interview and having joined after you, are there any other "obvious" strengths that you believe you have that make you the stronger candidate eg years of experience, additional skills or qualifications?

Also, do you know anything about the first preferred candidate that the job was offered to?

WOOOAH, hang on... they gave HER the job, but it needs to be a job share, with YOU doing the other half? How is that even a thing? Does the job involve more pay? And assume it involves better title. In which case, shouldn't you be co-team managers or whatever?

Based on everything you've said here, it's not clear that there's any difference between you except that you are black and she has no children. I have no idea how you address this but I would be livid. Does your firm have any official policies on anti-discrimination hiring at all?

My colleague can only take the job as a job share with me due to other commitments.

There is zero chance I'd be doing that. That's just making a shit situation shittier for you. Good luck with your business.

Sorry I missed the job share thing! Thats truly appalling. As a business you weigh up all the pros and cons of a candidate, and surely not being able to actually do the role due to "other commitments" is a big con?!

Objectively it's really hard to say if discrimination is at play here or not.

People are notoriously bad at accurately assessing how an interview has gone and in my experience their judgement tends to be shaped more by their levels of self esteem and how self critical they are than how well the interview actually went. A perfectionist will describe a brilliant interview as having gone badly whilst someone who is extremely self confident is likely to over exaggerate how well it has gone.

Even if your colleague is able to accurately assess how their interview has gone, there is still a good chance they will down play their performance when talking to you. People are often reluctant to boast and some would find it extremely difficult to rave about how well their interview went to a direct competitor. It could be seen as insensitive and potentially embarrassing if they went on to give the job to you.

Basically my point is you really don't know what they said in the interview or how they came across in comparison to you.

The confusing names situation is different and should definitely be raised.

The same thing happened to me when i was pregnant. I lost out to someone i had been mentoring for 18 months. They had no reason to give it to her instead of me. The only reason they gave in feedback was she answered a more technical question better than me (they didn't even ask me that question!) And she was more dynamic. What does that even mean?! I wish i had complained at the time. Clearly discrimination.

I think you should raise a grievance. You need to keep a diary of these microaggressions (get the Indian colleague to do it too). Fed up of this shit. I work in childcare and the number of white (it’s always white) parents who have the nerve ask their child’s key worker be moved when we assign a black or Indian woman to them makes me sick.

I lost out to someone i had been mentoring for 18 months. They had no reason to give it to her instead of me

This happened to me, and I wonder if this is what's happening here?
I was in an admin job, mentored a newcomer, then when a promotion came up she got the job not me. I was obviously fuming but a colleague quietly let me in on the fact they gave her the position because although we were equal in terms of ability to do the job, the newcomer was offered a considerably lower wage than I would have accepted. In effect, her being promoted slightly above me in role, put her level with me wage wise. (Media company, not public sector).
I waited for another opportunity which came eventually.

Discrimination will be hard to prove here although it could most definitely be discrimination at play. Is the white woman more liked by colleagues, gets on better with them? People are often promoted because they are liked and nothing to do with their work. Frustrating.

I’d be fuming about the confusion with an Indian colleague. That screams conscious and unconscious racism amongst employees and is definitely be raising a grievance with HR. Lots of advice online about this.

I’m sorry you’re going through this

@Ozanj what excuse do parents give? Unbelievable

[quote Redcart21]@Ozanj what excuse do parents give? Unbelievable[/quote]
Most are cagey and can’t give a reason. Others are blatant and say they want someone from their own ‘culture’ to take care of their kids even when their kid absolutely adores their key worker & it’s clear moving them would not be in their best interest. We refuse all parental requests to change now unless it comes medically / social worker recommended.

Hi, yes, impossible to show a bias I believe. I think I also wrote it might not be racial bias. Fact is racism is incredibly difficult to 'prove'.

However, the interview and job let down AND the meeting with my Indian colleague were days apart. My point is how I am going to be memorable and shine in an interview when the interviewee has been working on a team with me for three years and confused me with an Indian woman (not similar names, not similar in any way apart from both women and brown skinned)?

Yes, I had no other commitments and could do the job. My colleague couldn't and said this from the off. I could now just refuse the job share, my colleague would have to turn it down and they'd have to pass it on to me. But is this the way I have to get the job? If we were both appointable but one person can't do it, then why wasn't I offered it before my colleague.

Is my colleague more likeable? Maybe. I don't spend my time trying to be Ms Likeable To White Colleagues Who Are Racially Bias. I'm generally good for a chat though. Yes, I have been called intimidating etc etc yawn blah blah every black woman who has ever raised their hand has had that.

Even if my colleague was head and shoulders better than me at interview, I still have doubts I got a fair shake of the stick as the interviewee can't tell brown people apart.

It's a public organisation . The interviewee works in a diverse part of town. I shudder to think she confuses the service users she works with. Almost certainly does in my opinion.

I'm not rocking the boat whether I take this job or not, in reality as of this week I'm out. I've vacated my position on spirit, in mind, emotionally. I'm going through motions.

It feels crap, this whole thing.

Interviewer. Sorry

People's personal accounts of how an interview went are not reliable, some people are much more self critical and self deprecating. Why do you think you deserved the job over your colleague?

I'm not sure I did say that.

I am saying the interviewer said we were both appointable. I am saying I could actually do the hours, my colleague couldn't. I am saying the interviewer has often mistaken her brown skinned colleagues for one another (though we are of different ethnic backgrounds).

I also said it might not be racial bias.

I did state that put together it stinks.

Thank you to my black sisters who have responded xx

More likely to because you're a mum imho

This doesn't add up- why didn't they offer you both the job. She has to job share with you, and you are both appointable. Are you saying you have to do half the job for less pay/ lower grade? Or are you being offered half the job equally to her?

When I interview and have more than one candidate 'over the line' I still have to put them all in order or a reserve list hierarchy. There has to be a clear reason for why each candidate is ranked in that order. Sometimes it is very hard to differentiate between two top candidates, but it has to be based on skills experience. Never, ever on race, caring responsibilities. Ever. It shouldn't be a consideration. Although I would actively ensue under represented groups were not facing any unconscious biased by the panel. As a result I have the most diverse, and therefore effective, project teams in my corporate Group. Diverse groups make better decisions! Fact.

I would be asking for feedback for sure. I think there is possible some unconscious biased here.