Not getting the job

[Perfectlyadjusted]

So I didn't get a job. I went for a job at work that I have been doing for three years, along with my white colleague who has been doing the same.

My white no children colleague was eventually offered the job (it went to someone else whom I do not know first, but they turned it down). The thing is, after her interview my colleague called me and said she thinks it only went 'ok-ish' that she waffled, and on a few occasions the interviewers had to pull her back on track. My interview was strong, I felt it.

The feedback I got back was I did not mention a certain concept (white colleague told me she didn't either) and one other issue. White colleague said they mentioned a few issues to her. The interviewer said I was very appointable, but just not this time, do go for the next one to come up. My white colleague said she had feedback that her interview was strong which is not how she felt about it. But they said to her on that let down phonemail 'if this doesn't work out with no. 1 we'll come back to you'.

In the meantime, I am not happy but moving on with my life.
My Indian friend at work calls me and tells me that not for the first time, she had a meeting with the woman who interviewed me (and didn't give me the promotion) and that woman called her by my name, twice. She said it had happened before and she had always corrected the woman, but this time she couldn't be bothered. She was fuming though, needed to leave her wfh desk and go for a walk to shake it off.

I'm not saying my not getting the job was impacted by racial bias in any way. But I am saying it smells hella fishy and I'm sick of this shit. I cannot be sure it's nothing to do with me being black, or a mum (no one else on my team has kids), why the person who interviewed me and has worked on my team for 3 years cannot really differentiate between the two brown skinned women on the team (I mean, mistaking a very clearly INDIAN woman for a BLACK one with curly afro hair and think lips - grrrrrr and arrrggghhh). Is this also why I just didn't strike her as being no 2 out of 3 going for the job, but instead I'm no. 3?

You know?

I'm just over this shit, I really really am.

I started my own business last week when I didn't;t get the job, and I'm staying that course. I'll be resigning within 6 months.

F these people. That's why black people break out and go it alone. I['m done with white people managing me but looking right through me. I'm done.

Refuse the job share and see what happens. However, if you want the experience which comes with it. Take it for a year as job share then move on with the experience acquired.

All the jobs got offered, I has been the ones I thought I did really badly. It's never been the ones I thought I nailed it. My exams were the same. If I came out not feeling anxious, it was a tell tell sign I fucked up.

@icelolly12

People's personal accounts of how an interview went are not reliable, some people are much more self critical and self deprecating. Why do you think you deserved the job over your colleague?

This colleague wasn’t some hot shot who applied with years of experience. She’s been job sharing with OP who has trained her from scratch for 18 mths & now have presumably decided to give all the credit of their joint work to the white girl; and on top of it all the hiring manager frequently confuses people of colour with each other despite difference races / appearences etc. There is definitely bias and discrimination involved here and I think it’s conscious rather than unconscious.

OP def raise a grievance.

I'm not going to raise a grievance. I'm going to play smart. I'm can do my job quite effectively in half a day. I'm going to do that and use the other portion of the day to build my business. When it pays me more or same as my current job, I'll resign.

I was that person volunteering for everything. She has gone BYE BYE.

I'm on my hustle now. Looking forward, away from these corporate plantations.

Just a thought.
Do they know that you are building your own business? If so, perhaps that's influenced their decision. Is that possible?

OP, if you PM me i might be able to help. (Full disclosure: I am white but have experience in this field through my line of work).

They can't have known I'm doing my own business as I only started doing so on being turned down for the role. In any case they ts not uncommon in my line of work.

Thanks @Lndnmummy, I might just do that.

The more I think about this, the more I think you have a case here. They want you to job share but are not giving you the perks that come with that? I mean, you could be a white middle aged man and that would be considered discriminatory on some level. I think you should definitely talk with @lndnmummy because at this point, perhaps they should give you a lovely large cheque to help you set up your own business!

So, if you were to accept the job share would you get the promotion? And if you did would you work less hours and would the new salary be ok for you?

If yes then I think you should consider job share because:

• you would have the head space to deal with your new business venture
• it may lead to other opportunities

I would say (as a job sharer) you really need to get on with your partner but it can be an amazing supportive way to work.

If you don't do the jobshare I agree about union and I would also explore with HR. You could also ask to see your data i e. The interview notes.

It depends on the outcome you want, that will set the strategic direction. If you'd like to attempt a settlement then it would be prudent to point in the discrimination direction. Its often a case of narratives and optics. Is there a strong enough narrative here that could make your employer concerned in a tribunal? An optics that perhaps could, should it go public, pose a reputational risk to the business. From the very brief notes above, I'd suggest that's a strong possibility and a solid employment lawyer will be able to support you. May I ask the following:
How long you have been with the firm?
Do you have any formal performance issues on your record?
You have at least two "protected" categories: you are female and you are non white. Are there others? Pregnancy, recent mat leave, any health conditions (including long standing or acute mental health conditions of which the firm is aware), sexual orientation, religion? Obv dont have to answer in public but have a look in private. Happy to speak via pm.

So the "optics" of this is terrible. A less experienced and less performing white member of staff gets favoured over the more experienced black member of staff. Terrible terrible terrible optics.

This is happened to me and the only way out of it is to play the game.

If the job is offered job share, do not accept it as any problems that happen will be conveniently placed at your door as you are " 3rd choice".
Get official feedback from your interview and work on your interview technique and skills as other opportunities will arise.
Don't disengage from the workplace until you are ready to leave as everyone needs a plan B.
Never call the interviewer by her correct name again. If she cant get your name right then don't get hers right. It sounds petty, but some people only understand how rude that is when it happens to them. She will get your name right eventually.
Don't feel crap about yourself. I know it's hard but you need to put on your game face.
Don't tell anyone at work about your future work plans as it will be used against you

@2020inhindsight
I think that's excellent advice.
I'm so very sorry that you had to go through this also.

OP in my view, you have grounds for both race and sex discrimination claims to Employment Tribunal. There is a time limit, to take a case, of 3 months less a day from the date of the last act of alleged discrimination.

Even if you decide not to go down such a route, may I strongly suggest you seek legal advice asap. Always best to decide what to do when armed with all available information. I'm so sorry about what has happened, it's such a kick in the teeth.

It's a very odd situation OP where it seems you would be a much better candidate if only on the fact that you could do the role full time.

Thanks all.

I've asked for a debrief on my interview. I will go through line by line. I spoke with the interviewer and she said each question is scored.

I could always ask my colleague to do so. She might very well do that, I don't know. We could then compare. Then I might have a case, I think. But honestly, scoring is not bias free.

I don't really want to take this battle on, even if it is racial bias. I have moved on from this job (I can do it standing on my head), I'm very much engrossed in starting my business. A battle will only distract me and this job is not key to my life plans. I won't take it on for the tram, I've done that before and I'll do it again, just not now.

I think racism is also designed to keep us engaged in fighting it and not getting on with other stuff. Not this time, not this. I'm saving my energy for another fight. They will surely come, I have a bunch of black little people here with me!

(one branch I'd the business involves the Asian woman I spoke about, so someone at work already knows! But if course no one else. You can imagine, i'm not trusting of these people....)

Team, not tram.

People regularly downplay their performance at interview, maybe she performed much better than she realised, or maybe just better than you did on the day? I would be far more upset at the name confusion, which is a lot less subjective than interview performance.

You’ve referred to the successful interviewee as ‘white no children.’ I presume from this that you do have children?

I would look at that as the likely reason rather than race. If two interviewees are equally employable I would guess more employers would choose the child free one over the mum with kids. Less likely to want time off for sick children/school holidays. Seen (rightly or wrongly) as more ‘reliable.’

@Kanaloa that is still discrimination. And statistically, Black mothers face gender discrimination as well as other forms of discrimination to a larger extent than their white counterparts. That means that in addition to racial discrimination they are subjected to other forms of discrimination on top. So its not a case of either or. Its most likely a case of both.
For anyone interested, look into the Inclusion initiative by LSE and Dr Grace Lordan.

Exactly

The idea that sometimes a white person who is assessing me sometimes sees me as a black woman, and others as a mother, and that these are distinct, is literally incredible. After recent news coverage of black maternal mortality, I really hope we aren't still holding on to faith that black motherhood and white motherhood is viewed the same.

I have before toyed with the idea of writing 'none' under dependents and just never mentioning children to anyone at work. But then it comes a cropper for other bits, like flexible working, having to nip off early because child is sick at school and stuff. I hate that work needs to know anything about me that is not obvious from looking at me....

@Perfectlyadjusted yep. I do this.
If a child has a doctors appointment I usually say i need to take the car for an mot or to the garage.

[quote Lndnmummy]**@Kanaloa* that is still discrimination. And statistically, Black mothers face gender discrimination as well as other forms of discrimination to a larger extent than their white counterparts. That means that in addition* to racial discrimination they are subjected to other forms of discrimination on top. So its not a case of either or. Its most likely a case of both.
For anyone interested, look into the Inclusion initiative by LSE and Dr Grace Lordan.[/quote]
Of course it’s still discrimination. I’m just saying it’s more likely to be that. To be honest, if I was interviewing two candidates of equal ability and had nothing else to go on I would choose the one with no children. I think most people would.

@Kanaloa wow

@kanaloa then I hope I never interview with your company.

Kanaloa doesn'y seem to understand that it's potentially unlawful to refuse to employ someone because they have children.

*Doesn't

(The doesn'y is a bit of a give away, accent-wise )