London Commuter Towns - Excellent Secondary School

[Bezdomni]

I’m sorry for a very inclusive thread, but I need the wisdom and experience of other blackmumsnetters. I’m in a v fortunate position and thinking about leaving London for somewhere greener, however secondary school may be the deal breaker.

Does anyone have any advice/ experience about commuter towns with good state schools or private schools which are strong on pastoral/inclusion/anti racism?

We have around £1.2m (could maybe go to £1.5m) to help relocate but working out what to do about secondary school where DC will be happy and thrive is a major factor. My DC is v bright, academic (dyslexic) but I don’t like the hothouse or strict environments in some of the high achieving London schools.

I thought about Essex to have the option around the grammars and because of really lovely villages near where I grew up. But then I read a shocking review of Colchester Grammar who Ofsted have downgraded despite excellent exam results because of horrific racism/misogyny.

I’d prefer to be in the country to be closer to nature, families and to get more space. But I’m getting resigned a bit to staying in London and probably using the north London privates (maybe Northbridge House?) as the more relaxed good state schools that would work best for DC have tiny catchment areas.

Any experiences anyone can share? Nothing is ever simple.

should say not v inclusive thread

@Bezdomni would you prefer state or private? How far out do you want to be? There is Dame Alice Owen in Potters Bar, which isn't far out at all. Northbridge (Hampstead) is better than Canonbury.
Essex has a range of good state and private schools. The County High is excellent, but Saffron Walden isn't that diverse.
Have you considered Cambridge?
Suffolk have some good private schools, Woodbridge is good, but not diverse. Royal Hospital School has good SEN support, excellent music and is diverse. But it does have Saturday school which may or may not suit you.

Thanks so much for responding @Soma. I’m slightly agnostic about the sector as we can flex a bit in different ways. I hadn’t thought of Cambridge so will look into that - thanks for the idea. Originally I thought Chelmsford for a stab at grammar but good schools all around (like the sound of the Anglo European in Ingatestone). But then I googled BBC has articles from this year of children and alumni discussing racism they experienced from teachers as well as pupils. 😩

I wish I could just take guides on moving out of London at face value!
My fantasy school would feel like a really good comprehensive with a strong ethos around developing the whole person rather than drilling for exams. Happy confident children who will find their way adults. DC may well end up with top grades (reports in primary a good and he’s hard working) but it’s not the be all and end all.

I think that narrows the London State selectives (eg I’ve heard DAO is aggressively competitive; I’ve heard good things about Latymer but so so hard to get into) the only state that ive come across with the right feel is APS with its teeny catchment so if we stay put it’s Hampstead indies.

I’m sorry for writing essays, but I’m finding this really hard to know what to do for the best. Thanks again if you’ve got this far.

Sorry in the para above the BBC articles on racism refer to experiences at the County High School. The school hasn’t doubled down like Colchester, however I know people my age who attended so was pretty shocked.

@Bezdomni it's a mine field!

Have you considered renting in your preferred area instead of buying. My neighbours are doing that, if they hate it they can always come back.

I've heard good things about APS, but a lot of is is also hype. You'd have to live very, very close to get in, even with dyslexia.

I'll have to ask my friends about what happened at County High. I know DAO had a problem before the summer break and the head didn't handle it well at first and the pupils staged a demonstration. There was a thread about it in the education section and on 11plusforum. I spoke to friend with DC there and she was impressed with the pupil and teacher response. Not so much at the Head's.
I don't think my friend minds the competition at DAO.
I don't know much about Latymer because most of the DC that got in that I know, picked indies over it.
Yes, I've heard that Anglo European School is good, but I'm not sure how diverse it is.
Another option is a London day school (state or Independent) until the end of year 8 and then boarding from Year 9. Not sure if this is relevant or not to your situation, but this might be of interest - intouniversity.org/boarding-schools-bursary-programme .
Also remember, the out of London independent schools tend to have an extensive school bus network.
If your DC is a girl, I think St Mary's used to be more diverse than some of the other indies in Cambridge.

Have you considered the Milton Keynes area? Some nice areas within MK itself, and lovely villages. The schools my school have attended (private and state) have a good mix. Buckingham and Aylesbury grammars also have a good mix.

Thanks again @soma and @crumpet. I think we will definitely rent (and hold onto our London house). I wouldn’t consider boarding but I don’t know anything about Milton Keynes so thank you for the suggestion and thanks to you both for taking the time to respond.

Have you looked at somewhere like Cheam? I have friends living there who love it. Transport links back into town are good too.

Alternatively, somewhere like Beckenham or Tunbridge Wells, as you can then access the Kent grammar schools without having to go too far out of London. I have heard they are lovely, although being in West London, I don't know a huge amount about those areas.

I'd actually recommend coming to West/South West London, rather than leaving entirely, as they're really green spaces, with lovely houses. You would need to increase the budget though, as prices are eye-watering (I live in by far the worst area, so no stealth boasting here!).

Thanks @Starseeking for somewhere else to factor in. I’ve always lived north so definitely worth exploring further out in the other direction.

I have the instincts of a second generation immigrant with money so definitely being sensible about our budget and vfm (I do love window shopping lovely houses though!)

You could try the South London privates, and commute a few miles. A friend of mine was recently looking at a 5 bed detached period house with huge garden in Bromley for around £1.2m. The commute to JAGS/Dulwich would be regular, I'm sure loads do it. Your money would go much further in SE London, and then you are a short drive away from areas Londoners would easily call country!!!

I would not be thinking about north with your budget and what you are looking for, sorry. Property prices and the north / south divide make no sense and would be tricky for you.

There are some good religious schools around that area too, if you have that up your sleeve...

Just to check house prices haven't gone silly bigger over the last six months since my mate was looking:

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/107240459#/?channel=RES_BUY

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/108922496#/?channel=RES_BUY

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/112031690#/?channel=RES_BUY

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/85307959#/?channel=RES_BUY

much farther (?).....!

Wow @Jamdown123 that’s a lot of house for the money! Another area I don’t really know so thank you for sharing.

We already have a great house in north London which we love, but it predates DC so hadn’t factored in secondaries (it felt like a loooooong time away which has caused the dilemma). Staying put but paying for an indie around here is probably the default). It’s been a good process writing this out as I think it’s helped me realise my ideal preference is probably v strong diverse mixed state schools.

Does anyone know Pinner? Harrow appears to have good schools eg Nower Hill/ Pinner High. Any body with experiences of that area? I really appreciate the blackmumsnetter hive mind

The Westcliff schools are more inclusive. Slightly higher numbers of diverse students - same for Southend schools. I would look at Leigh on Sea and Chalkwell. Leigh is a bubble of community and wealth. Lots of independents. I am black and live here, never had an issue.

@Holweighthelp I have an enormous soft spot for anywhere Essex as I grew up there rurally - albeit a long time ago! Would love to make it work so I’m glad for the tip, thank you.

Christ’s school in Richmond has a good inclusive & pastoral reputation
House prices in Ham are not as insane as Richmond and it’s just down the road

Hi, I'm not black (sorry to gatecrash) but wanted to point out the Slough area has excellent state schools, Herschel Grammar, Langley Grammar are outstanding. Really mixed population and areas like Farnham Common are lovely. Within very easy reach of central London and the many amenities of the Thames Valley. Really worth looking into moving West. Oh and obviously Elizabeth Line coming along (eventually) as an added bonus.

I wouldn't personally choose DAO if I wanted anti-racism and inclusivity at the top of my list.

Do you have bishops stortford on your list?

@Bezdomni

Wow *@Jamdown123* that’s a lot of house for the money! Another area I don’t really know so thank you for sharing.

We already have a great house in north London which we love, but it predates DC so hadn’t factored in secondaries (it felt like a loooooong time away which has caused the dilemma). Staying put but paying for an indie around here is probably the default). It’s been a good process writing this out as I think it’s helped me realise my ideal preference is probably v strong diverse mixed state schools.

Does anyone know Pinner? Harrow appears to have good schools eg Nower Hill/ Pinner High. Any body with experiences of that area? I really appreciate the blackmumsnetter hive mind

Sorry, me again. I know Harrow /Pinner very well.

Nower Hill racist as can be. never heard anything good about the way black children are treated there, but maybe things have changed in the last ten years. I consider it an area on the down, rather than up, sorry, changing demographics puts paid to that. It happens. Doesn't mean you shouldn't move there. I know nothing of Pinner High. I think Hatch End, Bentley Wood and Scared Heart schools are ok options, I don't rate the boys school sin that borough, but Bishop Ramsey has always been good (I think just as exclusionary for black kids, but they really rate grades so more of meritocracy than Nower Hill - I really hate that school sorry). Private options are ok in that part of town, Mill Hill, North London Collegiate.... Again, I'm not so hot on the boys' offer.

I was thinking about DAO for my children actually - but people think it is too hot housey?

Slough sound slick a good shout actually.

I need to start thinking about this more....

Ealing and West London might not be baaaad options. Your money doesn't;t go as far, but some parts of Ealing are affordable. You didn't;t mention whether you were church goers? There's twyford, which is apparently excellent. Then you have the religious schools like The Oratory, Cardinal Vaughan, Sacred Heart for girls, you have the private, Godolphin and Latimer, Notting Hill and Ealing. If your £1.5 m can be spent wisely. There are ok ealing properties, Hammersmith for that money.

Ok, I'm going to just listen more now, because I can learn from this thread.

sorry typing while children pull me apart...

@Bezdomni , if you have a house that you like, I would stay in North London. There are some good state schools, APS, Fortismere, Highgate Wood, DAO, QE Girls is okay, QE boys is selective, Ashmole in Southgate and most of the indies are extremely good. It's not just about the exam results and whether the DC end up at the same universities, it's their journey through school that it's important to me. We could have used state schools, but have selected indies all the way through, because I didn't want my DC to be invisible and I wanted to be able to raise any concerns I had, and for them to be taken seriously.
You mentioned NBH (Hampstead), know quite a few that went there and it has improved massively over the years. Don't touch Mount House in Hadley with a barge pole, unless you've got a few years to spare and the new Head lasts.

@Bezdomni , I forgot to mention Mill Hill County (state) is or was particularly good for music. Mill Hill (independent) is a mixed ability cohort, which is reflected in it's exam results. Aldenham School (Herts) is mixed ability and good for SEN. A friend's DC won a scholarship to a US university from Aldenham.

Thanks so much everyone - I really appreciate all the thoughtful comments and opinions and glad if it’s helpful for others too.

@soma you’ve articulated things perfectly. Despite start this thread I’m actually quite a relaxed parent. I genuinely believe most bright children will find their way through most schools. However I want to be able to tilt things to put DC into the environment that suits them best and then to have some agency once they’re there about their journey more so than the destination. I guess that’s the same for all parents but the state system doesn’t really allow that. Any of the North London schools on your list would be great options but aren’t open to us because of geography and what we’re left with doesn’t give real choice. Sigh…

I do like the sound of Northbridge House and know people using the prep. Any reason why Hampstead preferred over Islington campus? I’ll take a look at Aldenham as it’s not a school I’ve heard of.

@Jamdown123 can you say a little more about your experience of Nower Hill? (DM if easier) it sounds like it’s been really bad. On Dame Alice Owen in theory we’re eligible via the exam route although know it’s v competitive. I know people who have had children happily sale through from year 7 to 6th form but they have said the incoming head has brought a different ethos. There’s similar in a thread linked below which I looked up after @PennyWus comment. There is also discussion on the mass student protests against racism by other students this summer. Would be interested to know how the school responded to that.

And thanks @Pennywus as Slough is another area I know little about. Btw You’re v welcome on the thread (and board). I grew up in an overwhelmingly white area and had a good experience academically and socially (not denying structural issues exist) so the exam question for me isn’t about finding the “best black school” but the “best school” as by definition values and behaviours of the school will determine DCs experience as much as intake.

@batmanladybird thanks for commenting too. Can you say any more about Bishop Stortford?

@Jamdown123 here’s the link to the thread on DAO:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/4240727-dame-alice-owens-racism

@girlsyearapart and thank you too for the recommendation. Ham is so pretty too.